Car Audio in FM behind the scenes update | AMA transcript added Nov. 22

Enhancing the Car Sounds of Forza Motorsport

17 October 2024- Turn 10 Studios

Nick Wiswell, Audio Director at Turn 10 Studios shares an update on the changes we’re making to audio for future and existing cars in Forza Motorsport.

Hi everyone,

I’m Nick Wiswell, Audio Director at Turn 10 Studios, and today I want to give you all some details on the audio changes you will hear in Forza Motorsport with the release of Update 13, Mustang Month, and our plans for future updates.

With this blog, I will personally address some of the feedback you have been sending us since we released the game last October. We hear you, and the plans that we are sharing today are in direct response to this – thank you for sharing your honest thoughts.

First, I’d like to give you some insights into the team we have assembled, and some important changes we have made to deliver the best audio experience possible when racing.

I’ve been at Turn 10 Studios since 2010, and I worked directly as Audio Director on Forza Motorsport 4 through Forza Motorsport 6. After that I moved into publishing focused roles working on Forza Horizon and Forza Street, and then into a more technical role before returning to Forza Motorsport full time in March 2023.

When I rejoined the team last year, most of the game’s audio content was already complete, so our efforts were focused on refining the assets we already had. After closely listening to your feedback, we have started incorporating new tools and processes into our audio workflow so we can deliver great sounding, authentic content moving forward. To ensure we have the best people we can leading these efforts, Turn 10 Studios rehired one of our former Sound Designers this past spring to help deliver these new plans.

To give you some context, this sound designer worked on Forza Motorsport (2005) through Forza Motorsport 3, as well as both Forza Motorsport 4 and Forza Motorsport 5 from a central Xbox audio team role. He then joined Polyphony Digital to work on GT Sport and Gran Turismo 7. I first met him when I was at Bizarre Creations working on the Project Gotham Racing games – Xbox’s premier racing game before the days of Forza – and I’m excited to work with him again. Between us, we have made a lot of great sounding racing games – and from some of the posts I’ve seen online, some of you would agree with this!

So, with a new audio leadership team, which includes another lead for our technology and development investments, we are set for the future.

To the state of audio in Forza Motorsport: I will admit that from an authenticity perspective, the game is not where we would like it to be. There are many factors that led to this, but we hope we can set things right going forward. Our goal is to fix these audio issues and ensure that all new cars added to the game are built authentically and uniquely. To achieve this, we have been overhauling our authoring techniques and pipelines so that we can update as many of the most egregious car audio issues as possible.

The initial work on this is now complete, and from Update 13 onwards, all cars added to Forza Motorsport will be built to this newer specification. In addition, a number of cars that have been flagged as inauthentic, both internally at the studio and by the community, will be updated over time.

The cars we are initially updating are with the release of Update 13 include the following:

  • 2022 Pagani Huayra R
  • 2014 Chevrolet #3 Corvette Racing Corvette C7.R
  • 2001 Acura Integra Type R

We have also made changes to the cockpit audio on the 2010 Lexus LFA, following its update in a previous release.

As we look forward to future updates, we will weigh factors such as community feedback, internal priority, upcoming featured cars in game and the availability of suitable recordings.

I’d also like to add that there is a lot of speculation about how the car audio is made and where it is sourced. It is all created from recordings of real cars, either captured on a track or on a dyno. Our library contains over 750 vehicle recordings, and more are being sourced and added every month. The changes we are making are built around how these recordings are being processed and edited, and the way we assemble the recordings back together at runtime to be controlled by the in-game physics engine.

I’m not going to give too much of our secret sauce away, but it’s based on the combined experience of our audio team and software engineers, and we are very happy with the changes we are making.

We hope you like them too, and as always, we look forward to feedback from the community. Also, I’ll be speaking with you all next month – November 7 at 3pm PT – on the official Forza Discord server to go into more detail on our audio development workflows as part of the next “In the Garage” AMA. I hope to see you there.

Nick Wiswell
Audio Director
Turn 10 Studios


Transcript from Nov. 7 AMA added Nov. 22

The following article is adapted from a presentation and AMA (“ask me anything”) hosted in the Forza Official Discord on November 7, 2024. These remarks, explanations, and responses to audience questions have been edited for length, clarity, and accuracy.

Intro

T10 Platypus (event host): First off, could you tell us a little bit about yourselves, and your history in video games and audio?

Mike: Sure. I mean, Nick and I have known each other for probably 20 years now at this point.

Nick: We first met in 2004.

Mike: My own career in game audio is, I was a contractor on Forza Motorsport (2005), the original, the OG, and then I was hired as a full-time employee for Forza Motorsport 2. And so, I worked full-time for Turn 10 almost to the end of Forza Motorsport 4. Then I left to work for a different division within Microsoft. But I still had a hand in Forza. And then after that, I went to actually go work for Gran Turismo for a little while. And by a little while, I mean like 8 years. And then in a giant full circle moment, I’m back here for my second stint at Turn 10.

Nick: And yeah, I’ve been in the industry, it’s my 25th year this year. My first game was Fur Fighters on the Sega Dreamcast. And my first racing game was Project Gotham Racing, back at the launch of the Xbox. And I was at Bizarre Creations up until 2010 when I joined Turn 10, and I’ve been here for the last 14 years. I was audio director on Forza Motorsport 4, Forza Motorsport 5, Forza Motorsport 6. And then I moved over to a publishing role where I was more involved with the Forza Horizon games and Forza Street. Then I moved into a more tech focused role. And in March last year, I was asked to come back and take over Forza Motorsport again. So, when I joined Turn 10, it was me and Mike. And now here we are again, 14 years later!

How We Make Car Sounds

Nick: The first thing we need to do is research the car. As soon as the team agrees that we want to put a car in the game, we’re going to do some research: looking at the engine specs for that particular model and its drivetrain layout. Is it a front-engine, mid-engine, or rear-engine? What type of exhaust does it have, what type of intake does it have, etc.? And then the biggest question is, do we have this car already in our library of recordings? If we do, then we’re good to go and we can skip a few steps. If we don’t, our next first step is, is a car recording that we can use available for purchase? There are several companies around the world who sell perfectly acceptable car recordings for our needs. And if we don’t need to go record it because they already have, that’s a much better solution for us. But, that’s not often always the case.

Our next step is to locate the car. Can the manufacturer provide one? Do they have one in a press fleet, or in a museum somewhere, that we can record? If not, can we find a race team or private owner who has the car? Sometimes with rare cars, it’s quite difficult to track down who owns these things. But you know, we have a team of people whose job it is to go out and find this stuff. Once we find the car—is it located somewhere near a drag strip or a private runway that we can use for recording? We record all of our cars driving up and down on a track. A track with a long straight would work too–

Mike: It must be a long dry straight.

Nick: Yeah, a wet straight track, less so.

And then the most important question: are they willing to drive, or let us drive, the car at full throttle through the entire rev range all the way up to the rev limiter at speeds approaching the top speed of the vehicle? The answer is normally no, but we ask really, really nicely, until they hopefully say yes.

Mike: Yeah, we’ve gotten pretty good at it.

Nick: If we get all of this, then we can arrange to record the car.

How do we record the car? Here’s a picture of one of the car recordings that we’ve done. This is actually from one of our external suppliers, but it shows the multiple exhaust microphones that we can attach to a vehicle. In this case, there are 5 mics on that exhaust, but we record 14 channels. There’ll be multiple microphones pointing at the engine, the intake, exhaust, forced induction, so turbos and superchargers, hybrid systems, transmission, and a multi-channel microphone in the car, so we can simulate the interior of the car in surround.

Once we get the car mic’d up, we drive it up and down the runway in a single gear. We’ll get into first, second, third, fourth. Sometimes we can get to fifth gear, and sometimes we run out of runway, and we can’t do fifth (or we all die, and that would be bad) but we go as fast as the runway lets us in a single gear. Then we’ll do some driving through the gears and get some simulated driving.

And then also we’ve got the slow stuff. We’ve got engine start, idles, blip, shut down, horn, doors opening and closing, hood, trunk, bonnet…

Mike: And anything else that is really interesting about the car!

Nick: Yeah, any cool sounds that it makes, we’ll try and get all of those.

Then once we get the recording, we can bring it back to Turn 10. We find the best takes and the best channels within each of the recordings that represent the sound we grabbed. Then we’ve got to clean it up. We’re driving it up and down the road, so there’s road noise, there’s wind noise, and sometimes there are other sounds, rattles and just scrapes and things that shouldn’t be there, that we’ve got to clean up and get out of the recording. Because as the revs go up and down, sometimes there are sounds that don’t pitch up and down with revs. And they’d sound weird if suddenly they appeared and disappeared as you were going up and down through the rev range. So, we have to clean it all up.

And then there’s the secret sauce. We use a bunch of proprietary tools that take that and convert it into assets that we can use in game. We then need to implement those sounds. So, we’ve got our game-ready assets. We use FMOD Studio as our audio tech. FMOD is a company we’ve been working with for a very long time, all the way back to Forza Motorsport 2, and they provide the tools and tech that we use to play back the sounds in the game. We then take all of those samples that we’ve created, all those assets, and they’re then mapped to game physics, so that what you do in the game matches the sound exactly as if it was in real life. So, as you press the throttle, the sound changes, the intake comes up, the exhaust character changes.

Mike: If you tax at 5000 RPM, you’re hearing 5000 RPM, that sort of thing.

Nick: Yeah, as you come off the throttle, you’ll hear the character change, the intake go away, all the little bubbles and backfires will start playing and stuff. So, we reproduce all of that. And then, since for this version of Forza we’ve added audible upgrades, we have to do that for all the different audible upgrades. So, we’re not building one car. We’re building many versions of the same car within the car.

Mike: Yeah, it’s a giant matrix of stuff that goes into one car.

Nick: Race cars are cool because you’ve got a lot of upgrades that we’ve got to try and get sounds for. And then we test that everything’s working correctly and doing all the things we expect it to do.

And then we can take it to our final stage, the final mix. So, if one of us was at the session, we’ve got our memories of what the car sounded like on the day, we’ve got the original recording that we can go back and listen to. But we do also look at YouTube and online references and try and get a sense for what people’s expectation of the car is going to be.

Then we make sure that we’ve got everything working in the game, all the camera views sound correctly with the right sounds playing and positioned in the right place, in surround sound and doing that for both player and AI, including replays. Obviously with spectate mode coming in, replay sounds are way more important. So, we spend a lot of time making sure that feels correctly, and that you can hear the car in the distance as it would be if it was really that far away from you at that track.

The second part of that is the environmental audio. So, we have a system whereby the car sounds interact with the world as you’re driving through the world, and we have to make sure that all that’s working correctly for that specific car.

And then finally, we do a final mix here in our mixing room at Turn 10, which is set up for Dolby Atmos 7.1.4, where we’ll validate that everything’s working correctly, and the car is done.

And that is how you make a car sound!

Mike: Well—this is also just for the engine. This isn’t the tires. This isn’t any of the myriad of other things we have happening. This is literally just the engine sound.

Nick: And to be totally transparent, that whole process has some back and forth, because me and Mike sometimes disagree, and it takes about a week. So, a car from start to finish, we can usually do it in about a week. Oh, not the sourcing bit. The sourcing bit can take months, years, decades to find the cars we need.

Mike: Just depends on the rarity of the thing you’re trying to find. I mean, we’ve got a pretty good network at this point, of people who know people. But some cars show up and you’re like, dude, I think there’s two of these in the world. How are we going to find one of them?

Nick: And they’re like, oh, we found one. And they let us take pictures of it. And then we asked that person, can we drive it? And they say no, obviously.

Mike: Or they say “yeah, but we have to hire a whole crew of mechanics.”

Nick: So, there are a lot of factors that go into the sourcing side of it.

42 Likes

Another excellent post where some accountability is taken, some issues are highlighted and explained. If you guys keep up these kind of actions you may yet recover some good will.

21 Likes

Great job developers at T10. I wish the best for all of you. :grinning:

3 Likes

More of this please, the transparency and detail is good.

18 Likes

This is good engagement and the new car audio in this patch is great

6 Likes

I’m very pleased with all those changes in communication with the community you’ve made in recent months. Really well done! :slight_smile:

5 Likes

The single best post since the launch of this game. I salute this newfound transparency.

6 Likes

I’m not sure I believe that every car in this game was recorded via dyno or track. A lot of the 12 cylinder cars sound like they have place holder sounds. Some cars with the same engines, but different cams/exhaust characteristics (sound deadening etc.) sound the same.

The P1 and P1 GTR should both sound like the P1 GTR’s cross plane V8 from Forza 7 as they use the same engine. The 918, 992 911 GT3, and 718 GT4RS are also off.

I don’t have the game in front of me, but along with the Vulcan (which was right in FM7), there are a lot of cars that sound like they have a place holder sound (Zonda is also a good example).

Also, the turbo 6 sounds on the MP4/4 and Lotus 98T files are lacking their low mid rich tone. (Have been since the MP4/4 was introduced in FM6). The Mclaren F1 needs an import from FH4 or any modern FM. There’s a lot more that need to be fixed (512S, F50, Nissan R382, Jaguar XJR-9, Apollo ie off the top of my head).

You’d do us a solid by explaining the process. I’m not into digital sound design, I know it’s complicated, but a quick synopsis on what the “secret sauce” is (a special A/D program?) would help aspiring audio engineers. Like what Gran Turismo did.

Also, convolution reverb doesn’t make sense to me. It makes cars sound disingenuous, hollow, and convoluted which is the opposite of what a performance car is IRL. Some cars can be heard from a mile away IRL and too much reverb washes out the direct sound.

Ever since the initiative, and update 11, cars have sounded more like their real life counterparts though. I’m looking forward to the conversation, and this initiative. Thank you for taking note, and action. Looking forward to the sound updates after what’s been shown lately.

7 Likes

I look forward to all the audio improvements

Good. GOOD!

I am looking forward to the audio going forward. I have a question, so I am going to click the link and send it to discord. Hopefully it gets in front of you during the AMA.

I can’t wait!

Edit:

Looks like I got to be one of the people in the AMA in order to ask it. I hope asking it here will at least bend someone’s ear enough to ask it in my stead. I know I will not make it into the AMA session.

My question.
How do you come up with the upgraded exhaust sounds? Do you reference well known exhaust kits on a few example cars, and create the difference from the stock audio, or do you record a version of the car with an upgraded exhaust and use that when certain exhaust upgrades are used by the player?

2 Likes

I won’t be able to attend the AMA either, but I did have a question or two as well.

  1. Something that I noticed is that in general, FM2023’s car sounds are a lot less raw-sounding than FM4. As an example, Australian Supercars (Commodores and Falcons) sound absolutely brutal/glorious from idle to max RPM in FM4, to the point that I wouldn’t want to do an extended gaming session using headphones (multiple races, an endurance race, or hot lapping solo) with them. In FM2023 however, the same type of cars are much easier on the ears long-term, but sound heavily synthesized at high-RPMs and muffled a lot at the low RPMs. Is there a way to get the low rumble associated with V8s in muscle cars and the powerful roar at high RPMs for headphone users without needing to take a break from gaming 30 minutes to an hour in of racing? (I hope this question makes sense, I’d be happy to clarify what I mean if needs be.)

  2. Is it inevitable that some cars will have to share sound files due to not having access to certain vehicles? And if so, what dictates which vehicles will have to have identical sounds? (Respectfully, I can’t imagine having dyno/recording access to certain multi-million-dollar vehicles at the snap of the developer’s fingers… :sweat_smile:)

Thanks in advance regardless if someone is able to answer my questions!

1 Like

So going forward how are we reporting inaccurate car sounds because one post has like 500 comments about vehicle audio.

Report each car individually? Can you show us the proper menu option to choose for reporting these said complaints?


Can we organize these audio complaints into their own category or folder so sound designers and the audio team won’t have to scroll endlessly finding the next one to fix…?

Thanks.

Hi @BlackCell567 . First go here:

Then open a new topic in the FM car issues.
Select the car audio tag.
Clear the “community notice” warning after you read it.
Write all details about the issues (including how the car sounds, what car are you using, how it should sound, what platform are you using, etc).
Also, you should add a comparison video between the real car and the in game car.
Now, you can post your audio bug.

Yes.

1 Like

Nice comment but it doesn’t quite show forum users the proper menu selection for said vehicle audio issues. Not trying to be a hard case, just want to make things easier for everyone who might not understand the proper way of reporting of these issues.

Hi @BlackCell567 . If you want to find audio issues in the FM car issues, you need to use search tool :mag: and then type: audio .

1 Like

Alright, here’s the procedure:

Go to Troubleshooting Hub.
Choose Car Issues.
In the subject line or thread title, write “Car - model name and year - audio issue”, in this order. Then vote your own thread.
Also, don’t forget to include the “audio bug” tag.

God speed! Quite a few issues have been addressed and continue to be addressed. Yours will too, hopefully, only a matter of time. :smile: :+1:

2 Likes

Good job there and interesting observations. I haven’t had a great deal of time to test out this car.

If there are multiple threads on this car, hopefully Max or Jet Party will merge them. I do remember another member reporting similar issues. Perhaps that was you, perhaps not. I’m not sure. But if the sound is lacking in any way, I’ll vote for sure.

1 Like

@BlackCell567 I did some testing on the car and yes idle could be louder. And I hope they update the sound to replicate it as close as possible to the actual car.

2 Likes

Ty sir.