This is a salient point and one that certainly deserves consideration. Gifting is inextricably linked with the auction house and storefront functionality and a lot of work was stolen directly out of the auction house or storefront via unlocking. Far more work was stolen in this manner than any here would believe or will ever know. The people who were engaged in that sort of theft are absolutely unrepentant about it and will not stop. They unlock paint and sell it along with all their modded credits and unicorns and so long as people are willing to pay real money for those things, they will continue to provide the service. No amount of banned consoles and accounts has put so much as a dent in their relentless cheating for profit.
Hello Ben! How many consoles has it been now? How many gamertags? I know you’re reading this but sadly cannot reply.
Turn 10 didn’t make the decision to not implement the auction house to spite some of you, or ‘kill’ the community, or any other such nonsense. They decided to go a different direction that might benefit more players all around while also pulling the rug out from under the ne’er-do-wells for a little while.
It’s not perfect but with a little work and patience, it might well be.
This has always been the problem with Turn 10 though. They go from one extreme to the other. They don’t seem able to gauge the effects of their ‘improvements’.
When people were complaining about cars being too expensive, they could have made them a bit cheaper. Instead they halved the price and upped payouts for racing. Making the economy in game pretty worthless. Without the auction house and storefront there’s nothing else to spend money on either.
I have somewhere around 12 million credits, and a lot of nice cars, but nothing to spend that on now. Plus with the restrictions on number of cars/tunes/paints, you can’t really collect like you used to either. In forza 4 I had many paints, some i never would have found as they were on cars i normally wouldn’t choose. So by having an Auction House, I could browse ALL paints, not just the crappy picks for my current vehicle. Everything about this games is like having tunnel vision. It all feels closed in, and restricted in so many ways. Removing most of the community aspect of a game that they constantly say is ‘community driven’, is just stupid when you look at it.
Dan G, is always saying how it’s the community that drives the game, and all the user created content keeps people playing. But now most of that content isn’t seen unless you know specific keywords or painters. I’ve found some nice paints, but i’ve had to randomly pick a car, choose some random keywords and see what search brings up. In the AH you could just browse visually, and buy things you like the look of at will.
As most people have said, it’s blanket punishment for everyone, because of a small group of idiots. Maybe it will return, but i very much doubt it. This is why i think many people are finding it hard to like this game or stick with it. In Forza 4 i always had something else to do. If i was bored of painting, i could go race, browse the auction house, or any number of things. In Forza 5 with most of that stuff either missing or severely restricted there’s not much choice. I still love racing around the 'ring, or painting some cartoon character on a van. But it feels more like a hiding to nowhere when there’s so much of the community element missing from this iteration.
in the same way i drive my car, but the wife tells me where to go…
If the search function was MASSIVELY improved, then it would go some way to alleviate the impact of having no AH or SF. I for one am sick of looking at “popular” paints for cars, and they are simply a colour. No artwork, no body kits, nothing. Just a colour.
I cant for the life of me understand why we cannot search for paints across all cars at once. I should be able to search “Martini” and find Bugs, 037s, Vanduras and S2000s all with that livery and choose my favorite. I used to love trawling through 1000s of fantasy paints, on all different cars, and picking one out to tune.
I don’t understand why people would pay real world money for in game credits. I have millions upon millions of credits in Forza 5 and I have all the cars I want, Forza 4 I racked up credits easily just by playing career. You shouldn’t need the auction house or gifting to get credits, (even though the payout for your tunes and paints being used by others is rubbish in FM5) although it is a nice feature to have if you want to give a newbie player credits. It would be cool if the auction house and gifting were brought back in a revamped manner for Forza 6
heir the paints and tunes are all free now, so the ability to steal and sell is already removed regardless of gifting. nobody is going to pay real money or probably even game credits for whats free anyway. it took me about 3 months to own every non dlc car. credits are very easy to earn. i have a huge stack of credits i cant spend. i remember a woman with a child with asbergers or something, if gifting were allowed i could gift those credits to her and donate them to a good cause. i could give noobs some good cars, and if they choose to they could put a tune or paint job on it themselves. a good tune might keep them from wrecking so many people online. they could use a car appropriate for the class rather than trying to upgrade the mini to r class if i could just give them a car. i have more cars than i can use, if giving them a car that would help them stay under control and not wreck me online it would improve the experience for both of us, and everyone else in the room. its a win/win/win. it costs me nothing since i can easily buy another replacement car and tune it, it costs them nothing because it was a gift, an it costs turn ten nothing because they are going to get it eventually anyway.
there may be some people that would try to abuse gifting, but i’m betting they are far outnumbered by people like me who would use it to help other forza owners/turn ten customers out. the alternative right now is to send those people a money order or something so they could buy tokens. i’m a poor boy and dont have the spare money. i dont even buy dlc for myself. so thats not going to happen. so i’ll do exactly what i’m doing now…sitting on a stack of credits, reading thread after thread about wrecks online, rather than giving people a car they could avoid more wrecks in. i’ll basically do nothing rather than trying to provide a remedy. gifting would let me help people for free, but i can already do nothing for free. i’m doing whats free.
and doh i would give up on policing grammer. i am the typo king adn will have you working 25 hours a day for free trying to keep up. i think i am 2 typos from reinventing chineese…for a 5th time.
Not ten minutes ago I asked Dragnet to take a look at a post in our moderation queue and verify what I was seeing because it was a livery competition entry featuring the work of a relatively well-known painter and not that of the person attempting to present the work as their own. Profit need not exist for theft of the work of others to occur. Making all paints and tunes free to the purchaser while the game rewards the creator for use of that item is a brilliant idea we should have had years ago, it certainly would have saved a lot of headache and heartache. But making those items free to those that wish to have them is only part of the solution if they do not also prevent private means of distribution that circumvents protections put in place for everyone.
Again, the system isn’t perfect but it could be. To my mind we need two things, a drastically improved search functionality, even possibly something along similar lines to the FM4 storefronts, and a restructuring of the payout for usage so that lower usage numbers still yield some payout, even if very small. Add those two things and we’re so very close to what could be the ideal model for UGC.
To get there, some of us are going to have to come up with some alternative means of achieving what we used to do with gifting/storefront/auction house.
Just tonight I experienced the typical “Hackers Vs Regular Players” auction house battle. The hackers won. I admit that the AC had some downsides, but there were more than enough positives for it to stay. The SF was great, and only an idiot would give an unlocked design to some random guy who says “hi giv meh ur paintz an ill pay a bagillion moneys”. I loved the fact I could browse other painters great designs, and that other players could pretty easily find my paints. The gifting is a big blow too. If you’re running in a championship with a team-mate, you can no longer send him/her the design you made and let them edit the number and driver name on it. In Forza 4 I found it pretty easy to motivate myself to paint something random, and it was great fun. In Forza 5, I cant be bothered. I still need to make ALL my vinyl groups again, and that will take a rather long time. In Forza 5 I have not once used a paint that was recommended to me. Don’t get me wrong, Forza 5 is a great game. It just could have been greater if the community stuff was an improvement over Forza 4’s rather than a complete overhaul.
Hackers are good for Forza. Don’t get ahead of me here… Alright, so a modder buys an Xbox 360 and FM4 and proceeds to get unicorns, CR, paints, etc. At some point in his run of evil he gets a console ban. Okay, he now must go out and buy another Xbox 360, and then starts to mod again. Again, T10 catches him and promptly console bans him. How many times do you think the average modder is gonna go out and buy a $200+ console just to anger T10? Eventually the modders are going to give up a move on.
My entire point is this: You don’t give up. You don’t give in. If you have the power to fight these modders, however many there are, you fight them. Eventually their numbers will dwindle and you’ll have reclaimed your game. In the mean time, the good players would get to keep their beloved features and MS gets to sell a couple extra 360s at $200+ each until those modders stop buying them and move on.
Or T10 can act like a child and say “if I can’t have it, no one can!” and essentially kill of their community because they’re to lazy to find some volunteer game moderators…
You will never see the extent of the problem, less than 1% of it has ever shown up here on the forums. This is not some minor inconvenience that creeps up from time to time. It’s not a handful of bad apples, it’s several bushels of bad apples with more on the way every single day. How many consoles can a single modder go through? I know of at least two that have gone through dozens, it’s the cost of doing business as far as they are concerned and while they continue to profit, they will continue to steal.
Thousands of hours over the past five years have been devoted to fighting this battle, paid and unpaid. Ask Snowowl how many hours he’s put in, as a volunteer mind you, over the past five years documenting and reporting. For every hour he’s put in, all of us moderators combined have put in equal amount of effort, as volunteers. On Turn 10’s side of the equation, they’ve devoted more time than you imagine and considerable technical resources. At some point it has to quit making sense to devote so much effort to fight a problem that shows absolutely no signs of diminishing, much less ever stopping. That day has come and sad as it is, we all have to move forward.
ok people please stop beating this dead horse … gifting is going to say gone , so is the auction house . period end of subject. thank all of the bad eggs as it was put earlier. yes many of us followed the rules and never used what we were gifted for our gains but others did.
IMO the only thing that needs to be improved is what has been said 5 times already in this thread : the search function - the ability to search for something regardless of what car you are in . the second is the payouts. 100 uses on anything is hard for most of us forum goers .
was never made one and dont want to be one , i can see why they lock so many of these threads now … can you guys really not see that they will never bring that stuff back?? use the search function count how many “where is the auction house/gifting at ?” threads there are and see how many are locked . after getting the same posts as Hieronymus1967 made in this thread…
and why jump at me ? you dont even have the xb1 or fm5 so why are you even chiming in??? im free to give my 2cents just like you are . i can see where this thread was and is going , so i leave it to the trolls now .
Heironymus1967 is right, there need not be profit for people to pass things off as their own. I happens far too often outside of Forza as well, in some of the art communities I peruse I’ll occasionally run across a user who’s passing off another artist’s creation as their own; the more popular they are for their work or creations the more likely they’ll be targeted. I know a few users who’s artwork or creations are almost constantly passed off by someone else as their own, people can be down right pathetic.
herm actually argued for bring it back, perhaps without realizing it. removing features did not prevent theft evidently. stupid people are still going to be stupid. you cant fix stupid, its as old as mankind, it existed before we were born and there will still be stupid people on the planet after we die. 100% of the benefits were removed and evidently the problem didn’t get fixed. a high price was paid and turn ten still didn’t get what they thought was being bought.
i dont get the bottled water market. why would i pay a dollar for 12 ounces of water when 95% of it is the same or worse than i get out of my tap? but the solution IS to let people by the bottled water if they want to, not to ban everyone from having any water period. let the stupid people buy the water, and let the vast majority still use those handles on the sink. let me get an empty bottle and fill it with my tap water and gift it to someone stupid enough to pay for whats free anyway, maybe they’ll catch on. maybe they’ll use some of the money they were wasting on expensive water to feed a hungry child or something. the worst they’ll do is save up for a $10 bottle of ater rather than just the $1 water. we’ll be right where we started but really haven’t lost anything. we got a free try and educating them.
I’m pretty sure that he stated that even though it didn’t completely cure it, it did curb it; if it did work well enough to make life easier, it could be all the justification they needed. I’m kind of siding with the auction house removal, spend less time trying to fix that up to prevent underhanded users from doing their thing, and focus more on the rest of the game.
My apologies, the post in question that Dragnet and I verified was the work of someone else contained in-game photos from FM4 of a paint that was created in FM4, not FM5.
doh even now i use stock paints. just press y and it gives you the option. i dont have to worry about a banned design being on a hidden layer or anything. paint never won a race so its not important to me. another thing missing is telemetry in replays even your own. in the past i could tune my own cars, i could watch the data thru the turns, see the tire heat and pressure, see traction and if a tire was coming off the ground, etc… and thats gone too. telemetry is only live now and i am not good enough to be consistant thru the corners while watching the telemetry. i can not win a race virtually blind folded because i’m not watching the track. by your own words " While right now, many players are understandably struggling to accept such a significant change, I think in the long run the community will be stronger." reads like you know its not as good now but think it might eventually be as good or better.
i’m not against the shareing system, but that is far from the only change all proclaimed to be anti theft measures. i would rather be able to make a tune worth stealing and somebody steal it than to not be able to figure out why my car is acting like it does and how to fix or improve it. whats the most anybody hass ever gotten for tunes, paints, or anything else? credits? i already have a stack of credits i cant use. i dont need more credits. what i need is telemetry in my replays so i can beat worm. maybe i’ll even make him a custom paint job with the text “he really was better than i thought he was going to be with the tools he needed” i may not be as smart at tuneing as worm but my ocd will make me put in more effort until i get it right if i can tell where/what the problem is.