…of people posting stickers and decals to Forza 6 if we cannot use and apply them to cars and then SHARE the car to the public?
Seriously, I don’t want to paint and decal or sticker a car only for my use…I want to share them, and share some of what others have
made public use.
Am I missing something? Every time I use a sticker or decal from someone who has posted it to the game, I am told I won’t be able
to share my design as a result.
Heck, if I’m correct I can’t even put up MY design without the others decals (so that they could apply them) because when I post my
design, it becomes a locked design.
The way it works is pretty simple really, If you use a vinyl group that has been made by another user - then you haven’t created the whole design. If you haven’t painted the whole design, then you can’t share it with anyone else.
If you were a race livery painter and had shared all of the logo’s you’d used in the making of a certain car - you wouldn’t necessarily want someone else, to use your logo’s to make the design again that you’d just released and release it themselves now would you?
Another important reason for sharing decals and vinyls is that the number of manufacturer decals actually provided by T10 in the paint booth is extremely limited. And there are many many racers who may want paint their cars but don’t have the time, patience or skill to do it themselves. The vinyls and decals created and shared by the community give these people an amazing selection of designs, decals, logos, etc. to add to their cars that otherwise they’d not have access to.
Okay, I understand the concept of using someone else’s decals and not having the entire design be entirely yours. But the post above is really what I’m getting at. It’s the limited number of manufacturer decals available to use in order to really make a race car look like a race car. There are soooo many decals/stickers of manufacturers available to download that don’t come from Turn 10, that really make a race car look like a race car, but once you use a single one, it’s locked. I’d like to put a Hurst or Edelbrock or Offenhauser label from the uploaded decals (not from T10) and be able to share a car.
I don’t know how to take logo art from the internet and make a decal out of it. Someone does or all these decals/stickers wouldn’t already be uploaded.
I have a few VERY rudimentary paints out there, but none of the level of the best I see. I honestly don’t have the time
to paint ( I’m a school teacher ) so being able to grab a decal to decorate a car would have been nice. I know I can do
it now for a car I’d use privately, but I’d still like to contribute even my meager designs to the public with
some decals NOT from the select few T10 provides to us.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you, (the OP) are more concerned with ‘original manufacturers official logos’ more than anything else.
Ever since those types of official decal/logos were shelved after Forza 3, designers have had to make their own simple official logos that should otherwise be readily available inside Forzas own decal optional vinyls…
In FM3, we have approx 5 pages of official product logos, which were often based on the vehicles possible racing implication, as not every decal was avail with certain vehicles.
The point is, that if we create a logo, be it say a common official racing name logo, it becomes locked and unable to be used as it was created by another painter, even IF that painter would happily share said logo freely with the community. Just like in FM3.
I painstakingly recreated Jason Brights V8 SCs Tradingpost ride in FM3 & it included several Australian based manurfacters (which I spent hours creating btw) and the entire livery was shared freely via the Storefront. I created a special Fanatec racing livery for the Pagini Zonda which was also freely given away to ppl that entered a Fanatec sponsored worldwide race that was created via our website, OXCGN at the time.
The logos, both official and self-made were freely available to anyone. But now, since FM4, we have to create every logo if we want a replica of a certain racing livery, yet we can not share those logos freely with other racers. Or apply downloadable logos and apply them, which automatically makes the designed ‘locked’. As it is using self-created art (read official logos) in order to create a replica livery.
This of course does NOT INCLUDE art that is created as “original” art that often lays underneath the basic ‘official’ logos. Creations that should remain the ‘intellectual property’ of the creator. That’s standard operational procedure for any artwork naturally.
Turn10, why can’t painters have back those wonderful array of ‘official’ manufacturers logos that were so wonderfully made available in FM1-3 inclusive. It would still allow the creative painters the ability to create some amazing works of art, be they reproductions of real-world liveries, or, liveries a designer might believe a vehicle could look like.
I think this is what you might be alluding to as the OP, correct?
YES! Allow a space where manufacturers logos can be placed into the public domain and freely shared. I do NOT want to simply plagiarize someone else’s work and call it my own, but would like to take manufacturers logos to recreate a race car or even a fantasy race design and post it for others to enjoy. As it now is, if I use someone else’s art that they post, it is locked. So my question was why even post it? Nobody can use it unless it is a one-off private car. You’ve eloquently described my concern. Again, I don’t want to steal anyone else’s work. In the train sim world (which I’m a big part of, any shared bits are given full credit to the original artist or author. I’m good with a system like that.
Hate to say it but have you even taken the time to paint and know the amount of time that painters (not all of them) take to create logos & when I say not all of them I mean when you go through the sharefront and all you see is copies of someones vinyl where they have gone over the original.
Painting takes time and it really is best to learn how to create things using different shapes to form a completely new shape.
I think you may be missing the point slightly. It’s not fair for someone to spend hours on a logo for someone else to then share and take credit for, so the design is locked. I understand what you’re saying about not having many to choose from with T10’s pre-provided selection, but you can’t just take someone else’s work and market it as your own. You wouldn’t buy a Van Gogh and sell it under your own name. If you want to use other people’s logos and vinyl groups, you can always download them and trace over them to make your own, nobody is stopping you. You’ll learn a lot about painting in the process.
This is the exact reason why I share the logos I create. People can go download mine, trace over them and have their own “unlocked”, accurate version of a logo. I normally create mine from scratch as I rarely see a “100% accurate” logo when I do a search.
Gifting is no longer a Forza feature, so this is the next best thing. You still have access to all of the logos, but if you want to share them you need to put in some work.
A main reasoning behind the way the “storefront” or “sharefront” is set up is because when you look back at Forza Motorsport 4, A LOT, and I mean A LOT of vinyl groups were stolen.
I was actually a “victim” per say. I had made a ZL1 logo for a Camaro ZL1 replica I made (before the actual car was added as DLC).
I noticed about a week later, someone had pretty much the same logo I made, they just changed a few colours around. I could even tell it was mine because I had a small part in the 1 that was off just a bit, and “theirs” had that same adjustment.
They stole the logo, probably using a modified game save that allows locked items to be added to their game in an unlocked state, so it looks like it’s “theirs” when it isn’t.
Anyways, the point I’m trying to get across here is that Turn 10 have set up the “sharefront” so that you earn credits based on downloads, uses and likes, instead of having to purchase the item. You get the item (vinyl, tune or livery) for “free” while the owner get credit for making the item. This then leads to less stealing and game manipulation.
I’m also guessing Turn 10 have taken the time to make it even more difficult to steal anyone’s items in the game as well.
I’m sorry you feel the way you do, but with the way things have happened in the past with game manipulation of sorts, Turn 10 don’t want to risk anything, and I don’t blame them either.
Shared complete designs posted for consumption by others could not be modified and reposted. That would remain purely a sharer to consumer model with credits going to the designer / poster.
Vinyl groups can be used by consumers and designs containing shared vinyl groups can be posted by the consumers that put those designs together but a design containing shared vinyl groups would generate no credits for the poster. The original creator of the groups would receive credits for design download - meaning if three separate people each had a group on that car they would each receive credits as if the group was downloaded as a group.
I imagine that would be a holy nightmare to program though.
Divide the profits out to the people who made the logo’s or decals on the livery that was shared.
Might work, but I see a couple of issues.
Firstly, The “lock” feature in the Forza series (Motorsport & Horizon) is kind of like a copyright system, you can use it, but you can’t share it as your own. By allowing people to share designs made with “locked” decals, it kind of breaks the copyright system.
Secondly, Tying in with what I mentioned in the first part, the decals would have to be probably “unlocked” in order for the code in the game to understand correctly and not malfunction. Hense, breaking the copyright system again.
Although, adding on to your idea, you could make the “sharefront” for vinyl groups (not designs or tunes) a freewill system. This would get rid of the locking\copyright system entirely and allow anyone to use any vinyl group you share. You would still get credits for downloads, likes and uses, just like designs and tunes. But, Turn 10 would have to write up a disclaimer pointing out that whatever you share is under your discretion, and it can be shared, modified and other people can keep it in it’s entirety without punishment.
Just an idea though, it would definitely have to be worked on in order for there to be no “holes” (per say) in the system.
I totally get your frustration OP but I mean you can still make your designs for personal use. You can still use those locked logos and race with them all you want. You just cant sell it and I think that is quite fair. The design isnt entirely yours. You can still release what youve done aside from what youve used from other people.
I mean you put time into your design so you probably arent happy thay you arent able to sell it but look at it from their perspective. The people making those logos spent a ton of time working on them and if you could just get them and slap them on your own car to sell, whats to stop you from not giving him credit or to just resell it all together? He deserves credit for his time too.
I have been in your position before. I mean Im not a school teacher but I work full time. I wanted to sell designs so I decided to make the logos myself. It wasnt instant but I managed to finish the car in about a week or so and I was super satisfied. That wasnt a week of pure playing games either. I probably had about 30 mins to an hour max.
So yeah it sucks, but there are ways around it and its not the end of the world.
I think it very unfair that within our game stats time spent painting is not recorded at all. So if i have spent twenty hours on a design the game shows me as having played zero time. However if I was a tuner, all that time spent building and tuning cars IS recorded in your hame stats. So my tuner friends think they have spent longer working on cars than I have!
Whilst I can sympathise with the OP I feel he has no idea of the real amount of time that goes into realising a fully painted car.
