So, over the last few months, I have turned off one assist after the other. The last one I was still using was ABS. I felt I was getting somewhat competitive despite leaving it on. That was until I really started focusing in on the ghosts I couldn’t catch and why. Its pretty simple, they stop much faster than me and get back on the gas much faster than me. So, ABS is now off. What I’ve noticed is that it changes a lot of things. I haven’t got the touch down just yet ( I have a bull in a china shop mentality for sure, so feathering isn’t all that easy for me yet), but when I do get it right, all I can say is wow! The stopping distance is night and day different and I can really see what the benefit is. I see the potential for as much improvement as I saw after finally using the clutch. I figure I need a couple of weeks of getting used to the brakes this way though as I’m still locking them up a LOT. I’m anywhere between about a second or two behind my leaderboard times right now, but that’s from the errors I’m making and I really think that will change in time. I believe that I can get about a second or so faster overall on my times once I get used to the brakes. I’m hoping that the top 25 time I seek so bad won’t be so elusive now that I’ve made this change.
Anyone have any tips that might speed the learning process up?
I’m nowhere near as competitive as you are, but my transition to ABS off back in the FM3 days proved to be quite an effective game changer and, ultimately, made me a faster driver. Good luck as you strive for the top - I’m certain you’ll have it sorted out, shortly.
Like the others have said, the best thing to do is practice, practice, practice. 3 months ago I was an average racer using all of the assists except I kept manual instead of auto. Now, I’m a top 200 (on most tracks) R-class driver, and I’d say I’m a top 50 GT driver. My point is to keep practicing. You’ll get better.
Awesome transition and great to see a fellow player progressing. My suggestion for an ABS-FREE breaking is to always make sure you have enough battery to activate your trigger rumbles. Once you get used to hitting the maximum breaking point with the help of the trigger rumbles you can’t go back. (it will greatly help in telling you when you’re lose traction along with the sound the tires will make). When looking at the red brake bar at the bottom right corner, always make sure it’s never fully depressed but leave it at least about 3-5 percent open. You have no idea how many times I lost games due to losing my trigger rumbles. Once you’re used to it, you’ll be really dependant on it. ABS-FREE breaking rocks. It stops SO MUCH HARDER. Woot!
Congratulations! It’s an amazing feature with the trigger rumbles so you know when you’'re right on the limit. Stick with it and keep practicing, you’ll get there.
Like Snyper said the Rumble is great in the triggers, as soon as you feel it vibrate stop pulling the trigger in, then its just modulating it going onto the corner as you would with ABS
I was able to get a couple of my teammates to turn off ABS the other day. One of them has since gone back to ABS on but at least he tried. The biggest thing that i could tell you is dont go racing in hoppers right away. Get used to the car and how it brakes differently. Set your brake back to 51% balance and 100% pressure and just focus on not locking up the brakes… Once you have accomplished that on a regular basis then start playing with the brake balance not the pressure so you can feel what 56% feels like over 51%. Once you have a good feel for higher brake balance i would then start cranking up the pressure. I ususally run around a 55% balance and 140% pressure.
Remember to keep an open mind because this will be very frustrating at first. I would also recommend shutting off you HUD so you cant see you lap times and can focus just on braking.
I agree with Swerve as far as making a difference in times. Some of the top guys use ABS. I assume it is used more as a crutch like TCS where you try not to rely on it, but if you get a little too excited it will be there for you. There is no inherent advantage in turning ABS off like there is using manual transmission w/ clutch. I actually think the opposite is true, it makes it more difficult and a more challenging experience. I think your issue, like you explained (Bull in a china shop), was you are squeezing the trigger down too hard too quickly and the ABS kicks in immediately which prevents sliding the tires by altering the rotation. This also means you are past the frictional threshold of the tires much earlier. Now you have consequences you can see and feel by the tires locking up when you depress the trigger too quickly with ABS off. What turning off ABS will do is allow you to get a better feel for when the brakes are locking up so you can maintain the maximum rate of deceleration which will undoubtedly help your times. Once you get a feel for the maximum brake pressure you can apply, you could just as well turn the ABS on for safety and run the same if not better times. As others have said, feeling the rumble in the triggers provides very helpful feedback. As far as pointers, I would say turn your brake pressure down. I know from talking with you, you usually have it set around 120%. This means the brakes will lock quicker with less trigger travel once they are engaged. I run all of my cars at about 100% max. and would be willing to bet I can outbrake almost anyone in the game. With these new controllers there is not as much resistance in the triggers so I like to have as much travel as possible for those slight adjustments. You will also find in the tuning benchmark, the braking distance will decrease dramatically if you bias the brakes towards the front ~60% and leave the brake pressure around 100%. This also allows the car to brake/turn better as the weight is being transfered to the front tires during deceleration. Finally, make sure you are doing most of your hard braking in a straight line. I am glad you are making the switch over to the darkside (no assists), it is a much more entertaining experience for me when I know one little mistake can end my race. Hope this helps!
I don’t know Snack, you might prove to be right ultimately, but I have a hard time agreeing with you right now. For the heck of it, I went and looked up things on C class Road America (probably my favorite track right now). I wasn’t even aware of this, but I have the second fastest time on that track for someone using ABS. Only Simmo at #6 was faster, but he’s just in a different league all together than most of us. So only 1 out of the top 39 times on that track are ABS users. I didn’t go through other tracks and look, but I’d assume they are very similar. I do see the occasional top player using ABS, but its not very often. ABS is a hell of a lot easier, but if there weren’t any advantage to turning it off, why would so many do it?
I just ran ten laps and got very frustrated with it (locked them up on turn 3 all ten laps), but I’m sticking it out. ABS is staying off for good.
This is where you need to relearn the tracks too, little bumps in the track may unsettle one wheel and stop it braking pushing you into the corner, as will coming down a hill the brakes on the rear will be light
Thanks for the tip… I will try to put it to good use. You are very right about relearning the tracks, it seems to change a lot of things. I’m worse on Road America and Indy, but faster on the Yas Tracks and Sebring. I set 4 PBs on the Yas tracks and Sebring, so I’m heading in the right direction.
I still lock up when im not in the zone. Stick it on 200% and about 47% rear, just for practice and try doing a a few laps without locking. Your muscle memory will get used to this. Then set the pressure to about 130-150. This is one of the hardest aspects to learn in forza but well worth the reward. I use the base of my finger, the fleshy part and not the tip as its a lot smoother.
I’m pretty much the same, I’ve turned off all of the assists now. But I don’t think I noticed any particular benefit from using the clutch.
If it was an analog input, instead of the A button, I could definitely see how it would make starts better - for example. But what is it you guys think is drastically different once you enable the full manual settings?
In lower class cars you control the speed of the gear changes and if you stay on the gas during gear changes you get a small boost when you let out the clutch.
On racing cars and other cars with very quick gear changes (in real life) you may be better off not using the clutch.
Yep. The difference is drastic if you ever race lower classed cars in a lobby where everyone is driving the same stock car. You pull away as if they were at half throttle. Thats the best example I can come up with.
Thanks guys, that makes sense as I’ve mostly been using R class and above since switching to manual with clutch. I have noticed I pull away at the start in the 70s GP lobby quite a lot though, which sounds a bit like what you’re describing. I’ve been putting that down to most people I play against spinning their wheels too much though.
I saw an enormous improvement in my times when I went to the clutch. Could be that It was because I was only driving D class at the time.
There has to be a time benefit to the brakes. When I race the ghosts of those who are at about the same times as me, but I know they are not using ABS, I see some very noticeable differences. They brake much later than I do, they slow down much faster, and they get back on the gas much sooner. MonkeyDgio on Road America is a perfect example. His car was a little slower than mine for some reason (same car and tune though). So on just about every corner, I would get to my braking point before he would. As I would start to brake, he would fly past me and brake later. He would come out of the corner first, but I would overtake him before the next corner and the whole process would keep repeating. So. let’s say the difference is only half a tenth per corner. If the track has 16 corners, well that’s 8 tenths of a second on the lap. I think that’s a pretty significant difference. 8 tenths is good for about 20 or spots on most of the leaderboards. If I can learn to brake like him, while still keeping my speed up, I’m looking at more than an 8 tenth improvement. That’s just my twisted logic for justifying the change, whether it comes to be or not is another matter…
So far, I’m able to get within 3 tenths of my ABS times. I’m still locking them up a little and just not going about things properly yet. Its all stuff I will sort out over time, I just need time to adjust to them. Its definitely way more of an adjustment than dropping any of the other assists, that’s for sure. With all the other changes, I saw improvements in my times within a few laps. The very first lap I ran with a clutch on my Mini at Road America I saw a full 2 second improvement. This time around, I was over ten seconds slower. So, I’m pretty happy with being 3 tenths slower today if that means that next week I’m #1 on half the leaderboards in C class, I can live with that Just kidding obviously… #2 or #3 would be perfectly acceptable too…
There is, ABS Off like you have noticed lets you brake deeper and harder which will in time make you faster, also if you run deep or drop a wheel off the tarmac it gives you a lot more control to save it compared to ABS On that would just spin you or pull you off
You have the right attitude to keep pursuing it and not giving up on it, finally it will “Click” and a lightbulb will just turn on and you will wonder why you didn’t switch sooner
Just kidding obviously…