Recently I decided to conquer (for me) this final assist, hoping that this was the final piece that would put me at the top of the leader boards (I already have a couple top 300’s). But after finally mastering no abs, there is absolutely no difference in my lap times. Everyone online keeps telling me that you can brake faster but I see difference. So am I doing something wrong or or the difference between abs on or off just a load of bull?
ABS off is definitely quicker than ABS on, but you have to be able to brake right on the threshold of locking up the tires without actually locking them up. It takes time to get it right consistently. Combined with proper downshifting, it will stop you faster than ABS, absolutely.
A lot of people like to make statements as if they are fact, when they’re not. And even when the statement is True, it often has caveats and exceptions.
“Turning ABS Off will give you faster lap-times” is one such statement.
Take a look at the current Top-5 in B-Class at Alps-Festival circuit:
1:49.938 - ABS Off
1:49.991 - ABS On
1:50.236 - ABS Off
1:50.322 - ABS Off
1:50.371 - ABS On
Clearly, ABS on or off is NOT the deciding factor. If I’m going to say “The guy at #2 would be #1 if he turned off ABS” then I would also have to say “The guy at #3 would be #2 if he turned ON ABS.” Both statements cannot be true, so neither statement is true.
Yes, when changing transmission from Auto to Manual to Man+Clutch you will see significant improvement… but that’s the ONLY place you’ll see it. ABS / TCS / STM only provide slight improvements and, depending on Car / Track combination, may even slow you down if you turn them off.
I’ve been racing since I was 4 years old (Karting) and I have been ever since. I’ve competed in many series, from the SCCA to IMSA, and I’m currently taking part in German Touring Car competitions. Now that I’ve got my bragging done, allow me to share my knowledge of motorsport by telling you this: ABS does not make you faster around a track. Period. Done. The End. Fin.
What ABS Off does allow you to do is brake harder, given that you apply the correct braking technique to the situation. ABS, basically, just pumps your brakes when you brake hard. What this allows you to do is steer while braking hard, contrary to a lock up where you wouldn’t be able to turn your vehicle in time of an emergency. That’s it. ABS just makes it so that you can floor the brakes and steer. Without ABS, flooring the brakes would cause a lock up, and possibly an accident on the road. That being said, if you apply the correct amount of braking without locking up, depending on the turn, you’ll have more control of the vehicle. Braking late and hard, then turning in, is a very simple and rather naive way of embracing cornering and braking tactics. The transfer of weight, energy, and bias all comes into consideration under braking. Heavy braking isn’t always the answer. Unfortunately, most people seem to think that it is.
Thanks GRD. I’ve mostly just been lucky and at the right place at the right time
Seems difficult to get advise through to youngsters these days…no one seems to really pay attention, haha. Nobody likes to listen to the ol’ f@rt
You’re right. There are a lot of variables that can make someone faster or slower over the course of a lap. Some people are far more consistent when they don’t have to worry about locking up the brakes.
If there was a straight 0 to 100 to 0 event in the game though, I would wager that you would have to look pretty far down the leaderboard to find someone using ABS.
You will see it once its mastered. allows you to trail brake much better and lets you brake much later and still slow down to the same speed. You are not just pulling the trigger all the way in like you likely did with abs on and skidding are you?
it’s not just a matter of learning to live without ABS. it requires a whole new technique. not only do you have to learn how to avoid locking up the brakes, you also have to learn when to brake. without ABS, you can brake MUCH later into corners, and, if you’re careful, you can even brake once already inside the corner. for example: on the TG test track, without ABS, i had to brake BEFORE turn one, or i’d lock up and lose control. now, i brake much later, combined with a little soft application of the brakes mid-corner. this leads to a huge improvement in my lap times. also, at the hammerhead, i can brake much later than with ABS, and then let off the brakes early, before tapping the brakes once more after the first hook. this saves another bit of time. and finally, penultimate corner. with ABS on, you have to brake, THEN turn. with ABS off, i can turn while braking. this, i think, is where i save the most time. the reason i know i am saving a lot of time is: back in FM4, there was a community challenge with the new SRT Viper. i struggled to come even close to the times the community target was setting. i managed to beat him-- only just-- with the ABS on. but later, when i had learned to race with ABS off, i went back and tried it again. i was able to absolutely destroy my old time. trust me, once you really know how to use it, ABS off is much faster.
to be fair you have to consider the track also, not a lot of braking required in B class on Bernese. But catalunya requires more braking.
No ABS allows braking later pre-turn all else being equal. If I turn on race line, braking only, with ABS on, I have to start braking in yellow, whereas with ABS off and brake bias/pressure adjusted properly braking well into “the red zone” works great. That’s my personal experience, yours may vary.
I agree with Don Ente. The difference between ABS on/off is very small. If you are right on the edge but in full control, the difference would be insignificant and certainly NOT noticeable. Theoretically one can stop faster without ABS but we are talking about few feet, not enough to make a big dent in lap times. And it is similar for TCS.
TCS and ABS are for people who lack the skill to stay on the limit of traction. ABS allows people of any skill level to brake quickly. TCS allows more liberal use of throttle without having to worry about loss of traction.
That is not to say people who do not use TCS/ABS has the skill! I don’t. I just like to be in full control of the inputs whether it helps me or not.
Not a lot of race series do anymore - like F1 they have banned it as it removes the drivers ability from the equation. Some cars do use it though - a lot of the LMP and Prototype cars do as they weigh nothing, have stupid amounts of power and are twitchy as all hell to drive at the best of times.
Personally you are better off not using ABS in Forza but TC can be a friend in certain cars and certain tracks as well.
For the people who asked, no I’m not just mashing on the brakes and letting it slide.
This kind of annoys me because now I cant go back to abs on because easing the brake trigger has become muscle memory but its become something that I subconsciously have to think about. Its one of those things where its getting beyond fun and challenging and becoming frustrating and challenging.
Well now I know. I do agree about the braking in a turn thing though.
Does anyone know if having ABS switched on limits the ability to threshold brake? If you brake as though it was off will you achieve the same stopping power? I still drive with ABS on but try to avoid ABS cutting in so I don’t think it is detrimental to my lap times.
Thanks for the reply Don. I can’t believe there is much lost by leaving ABS on. It is useful for me as a backstop when I get things wrong when racing LOL. The drivers settig top times with ABS switched on almost confirms this. I am pretty sure they are not applying full throw on the brakes. A similar rule probably applies with TCS. If you use correct throttle control and avoid the TCS activating you will be just as quick with it switched on or off.