Turning off ABS

[RPM_Lou3824]

@BDR_Daz

@Lou3824

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I saw an enormous improvement in my times when I went to the clutch. Could be that It was because I was only driving D class at the time.

There has to be a time benefit to the brakes.

There is, ABS Off like you have noticed lets you brake deeper and harder which will in time make you faster, also if you run deep or drop a wheel off the tarmac it gives you a lot more control to save it compared to ABS On that would just spin you or pull you off

You have the right attitude to keep pursuing it and not giving up on it, finally it will “Click” and a lightbulb will just turn on and you will wonder why you didn’t switch sooner

So far, I have wondered why I didn’t do it sooner after dropping each assist.

[RPM_Lou3824]

Well, I just nailed my first hardcore time. Nothing earth shattering, but I got a 2:29.017 on Yas Marina full. Good for #53. I made a TON of mistakes and even locked the brakes up twice, yet I still beat my old time by more than 2 tenths and moved up ten places on the leaderboard. Using ABS, I was never able to cut across pit row on the last turn before. The brakes wouldn’t allow me to slow down fast enough to make that turn, keep it clean, and maintain enough speed. I didn’t do it perfectly, but I got it somewhat right at least and crossed the line before my ghost.

So, I can officially say that non ABS has now made a difference for me. Still need A LOT more practice though…

[Snack_31]

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

I agree with Swerve as far as making a difference in times. Some of the top guys use ABS. I assume it is used more as a crutch like TCS where you try not to rely on it, but if you get a little too excited it will be there for you. There is no inherent advantage in turning ABS off like there is using manual transmission w/ clutch. I actually think the opposite is true, it makes it more difficult and a more challenging experience.

I don’t know Snack, you might prove to be right ultimately, but I have a hard time agreeing with you right now. ABS is a hell of a lot easier, but if there weren’t any advantage to turning it off, why would so many do it?

I think you answered your own question, it is a lot easier. I can only speak for myself, but I like the additional challenge. I think there is an added element of accomplishment when you are doing all of the driving, which is why it is split up in forzastats. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think someone like Simmo would have many problems turning ABS off and running the same times, but I do think it is only advantageous.

@Lou3824

Well, I just nailed my first hardcore time. Nothing earth shattering, but I got a 2:29.017 on Yas Marina full. Good for #53. Using ABS, I was never able to cut across pit row on the last turn before. The brakes wouldn’t allow me to slow down fast enough to make that turn, keep it clean, and maintain enough speed. I didn’t do it perfectly, but I got it somewhat right at least and crossed the line before my ghost.

So, I can officially say that non ABS has now made a difference for me. Still need A LOT more practice though…

Not so fast. Good job with your improvement, but I still think you are placing your success in the wrong place. I think you are getting better at maintaining the maximum rate of deceleration. Take some credit, it is YOUR improvement not the ABS. Still don’t believe me, I propose you take any car to a test track, or long flat straight, and the first time turn ABS on, get to speed and slam on the brakes. Take note of where you came to a stop. Do the same thing with ABS off, get to speed, slam the brakes. I would be wiling to bet anything, without testing this myself, that the car stops much sooner with ABS on. So if you think about it logically, the ABS only engages once you’ve crossed the frictional threshold of the tires, if you are not crossing that threshold it doesn’t matter if you have ABS on or off. One way to observe what you are witnessing is this; put a pretty heavy object (weight, book?) from your house on a smooth surface, table, floor, whatever. The heavier the object the more you’ll be able to notice it. Take your finger and push against the object. At first you will notice the object doesn’t move, however, as soon as the object overcomes its frictional threshold and begins to move you will immediately notice it is not nearly as difficult to keep the object sliding as it is to get it moving in the first place. This is the exact same thing that happens with the car braking, except instead of you pushing on the object, the tires are pushing on the road. If they don’t slide (stay below their frictional threshold), you are able to apply more force to resist the movement of the car just like you had to apply more force to get the object to slide than to keep it sliding. Hope this is helpful in understanding what you are experiencing.

[RPM_Lou3824]

@Snack_31

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

I agree with Swerve as far as making a difference in times. Some of the top guys use ABS. I assume it is used more as a crutch like TCS where you try not to rely on it, but if you get a little too excited it will be there for you. There is no inherent advantage in turning ABS off like there is using manual transmission w/ clutch. I actually think the opposite is true, it makes it more difficult and a more challenging experience.

I don’t know Snack, you might prove to be right ultimately, but I have a hard time agreeing with you right now. ABS is a hell of a lot easier, but if there weren’t any advantage to turning it off, why would so many do it?

I think you answered your own question, it is a lot easier. I can only speak for myself, but I like the additional challenge. I think there is an added element of accomplishment when you are doing all of the driving, which is why it is split up in forzastats. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think someone like Simmo would have many problems turning ABS off and running the same times, but I do think it is only advantageous.

@Lou3824

Well, I just nailed my first hardcore time. Nothing earth shattering, but I got a 2:29.017 on Yas Marina full. Good for #53. Using ABS, I was never able to cut across pit row on the last turn before. The brakes wouldn’t allow me to slow down fast enough to make that turn, keep it clean, and maintain enough speed. I didn’t do it perfectly, but I got it somewhat right at least and crossed the line before my ghost.

So, I can officially say that non ABS has now made a difference for me. Still need A LOT more practice though…

Not so fast. Good job with your improvement, but I still think you are placing your success in the wrong place. I think you are getting better at maintaining the maximum rate of deceleration. Take some credit, it is YOUR improvement not the ABS. Still don’t believe me, I propose you take any car to a test track, or long flat straight, and the first time turn ABS on, get to speed and slam on the brakes. Take note of where you came to a stop. Do the same thing with ABS off, get to speed, slam the brakes. I would be wiling to bet anything, without testing this myself, that the car stops much sooner with ABS on.

Its exactly the opposite. I have tested it against my ghost. I’m not the best driver in the game, but I got to #40 (actually, it was #33 just two days ago, its my own fault for sharing the second version of that build…) on Road America by doing something right. That’s the track where I notice the difference the most. Going down the straight at the start of the lap and then braking for the first turn is pretty much what you’re asking me to do on a test track. Well, except that I’m not coming to a full stop, but that’s not a logical comparison for the purpose of this game. With ABS, I start hitting the brakes just as I get to the red on the brake line. The car slows down enough and I make the turn. With ABS off, I start hitting the brake after I have passed the beginning of the red on the brake line. I slow down much faster and start the turn sooner. There’s no doubt at all that the car stops faster without ABS. If I can just figure out why I always lock them up on turn 3, I’ll be in good shape.

Now maybe in the real world, you might be right. However, in the game, I beg to differ. My driving hasn’t changed that much in a couple of days that I am blind to the difference. I bettered my time on Yas Marina tonight twice with very sloppy laps because the car now slows down so much faster, and under more control too if I do it right, at the end of the long straight. On several of the turns throughout that course, I used to have to hold the brake to slow down enough. Now, just a slight tap is all that is needed. I ran Sebring tonight and bettered my time by over half a second on the 2nd lap and I didn’t run all that good of a lap either. The difference is there, its just a matter of working on my timing and learning to use the new advantage to my favor. Its almost like learning to drive in the game all over again to me. Some facets of it are coming to me rather easily. Others, not so much…

I know you played other Forzas and have been using ABS for quite a while. I’m thinking you are just so used to non-ABS brakes that you aren’t able to see the difference or forget what it was like if you ever did run ABS. Turn ABS on and run a few laps. I guarantee you’ll be slower…

[Snack_31]

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

I agree with Swerve as far as making a difference in times. Some of the top guys use ABS. I assume it is used more as a crutch like TCS where you try not to rely on it, but if you get a little too excited it will be there for you. There is no inherent advantage in turning ABS off like there is using manual transmission w/ clutch. I actually think the opposite is true, it makes it more difficult and a more challenging experience.

I don’t know Snack, you might prove to be right ultimately, but I have a hard time agreeing with you right now. ABS is a hell of a lot easier, but if there weren’t any advantage to turning it off, why would so many do it?

I think you answered your own question, it is a lot easier. I can only speak for myself, but I like the additional challenge. I think there is an added element of accomplishment when you are doing all of the driving, which is why it is split up in forzastats. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think someone like Simmo would have many problems turning ABS off and running the same times, but I do think it is only advantageous.

@Lou3824

Well, I just nailed my first hardcore time. Nothing earth shattering, but I got a 2:29.017 on Yas Marina full. Good for #53. Using ABS, I was never able to cut across pit row on the last turn before. The brakes wouldn’t allow me to slow down fast enough to make that turn, keep it clean, and maintain enough speed. I didn’t do it perfectly, but I got it somewhat right at least and crossed the line before my ghost.

So, I can officially say that non ABS has now made a difference for me. Still need A LOT more practice though…

Not so fast. Good job with your improvement, but I still think you are placing your success in the wrong place. I think you are getting better at maintaining the maximum rate of deceleration. Take some credit, it is YOUR improvement not the ABS. Still don’t believe me, I propose you take any car to a test track, or long flat straight, and the first time turn ABS on, get to speed and slam on the brakes. Take note of where you came to a stop. Do the same thing with ABS off, get to speed, slam the brakes. I would be wiling to bet anything, without testing this myself, that the car stops much sooner with ABS on.

Now maybe in the real world, you might be right. However, in the game, I beg to differ. My driving hasn’t changed that much in a couple of days that I am blind to the difference. I bettered my time on Yas Marina tonight twice with very sloppy laps because the car now slows down so much faster, and under more control too if I do it right, at the end of the long straight. On several of the turns throughout that course, I used to have to hold the brake to slow down enough. Now, just a slight tap is all that is needed.

Going down the straight at the start of the lap and then braking for the first turn is pretty much what you’re asking me to do on a test track. Well, except that I’m not coming to a full stop, but that’s not a logical comparison for the purpose of this

That is not what I’m asking you to do. I say come to a full stop from the same speed so you are comparing apples to apples. As you said above, " I used to have to hold the brake". My point of the test is to show you that if you “hold the brake” with ABS off, you will not stop as fast as with ABS on. I wanted you to see that when the tires are sliding they are not stopping. Try the test. Use a car at a speed where the brakes lock up quickly when fully depressed to see the most noticeable difference. Obviously if you use a slower car where the brakes do not lock up, the ABS wont engage either and you wont see much difference if any at all. I do not disagree at all that you slow down much quicker if you don’t slide the tires than if you use ABS and it engages. You are just confusing your results with the ABS setting and what it actually does. The ABS is designed so that when the tires start to lock up from them not rotating fast enough, the ABS kicks in and releases the tires to rotate enough to maintain friction with the road. When the tires rotate faster, the car is not stopping as fast. So you are not doing a fair comparison if you are braking without sliding the tires versus braking hard enough to slide the tires but being assisted by the ABS which allows the tires to rotate, thus increasing your stopping distance. You are not braking the same. If the ABS engages that means you would be sliding the tires with it off. This is obviously not what you are doing when you say, “if I do it right”. Again it is like pushing the object, once you overcome the initial frictional force to get it moving it becomes much easier to keep it moving. So when the tires are not sliding, you have more resistance which will stop the car faster which is what you are trying to do with ABS off. I have no doubt that you are experiencing better results with ABS off, I just disagree with why you think you are having those results. It is not just because you turned the ABS off, but because you are braking more efficiently. I would encourage anyone to drive with ABS off so you get a feel for the braking threshold. Keep up the good work.

[RPM_Lou3824]

@Snack_31

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

I agree with Swerve as far as making a difference in times. Some of the top guys use ABS. I assume it is used more as a crutch like TCS where you try not to rely on it, but if you get a little too excited it will be there for you. There is no inherent advantage in turning ABS off like there is using manual transmission w/ clutch. I actually think the opposite is true, it makes it more difficult and a more challenging experience.

I don’t know Snack, you might prove to be right ultimately, but I have a hard time agreeing with you right now. ABS is a hell of a lot easier, but if there weren’t any advantage to turning it off, why would so many do it?

I think you answered your own question, it is a lot easier. I can only speak for myself, but I like the additional challenge. I think there is an added element of accomplishment when you are doing all of the driving, which is why it is split up in forzastats. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think someone like Simmo would have many problems turning ABS off and running the same times, but I do think it is only advantageous.

@Lou3824

Well, I just nailed my first hardcore time. Nothing earth shattering, but I got a 2:29.017 on Yas Marina full. Good for #53. Using ABS, I was never able to cut across pit row on the last turn before. The brakes wouldn’t allow me to slow down fast enough to make that turn, keep it clean, and maintain enough speed. I didn’t do it perfectly, but I got it somewhat right at least and crossed the line before my ghost.

So, I can officially say that non ABS has now made a difference for me. Still need A LOT more practice though…

Not so fast. Good job with your improvement, but I still think you are placing your success in the wrong place. I think you are getting better at maintaining the maximum rate of deceleration. Take some credit, it is YOUR improvement not the ABS. Still don’t believe me, I propose you take any car to a test track, or long flat straight, and the first time turn ABS on, get to speed and slam on the brakes. Take note of where you came to a stop. Do the same thing with ABS off, get to speed, slam the brakes. I would be wiling to bet anything, without testing this myself, that the car stops much sooner with ABS on.

Now maybe in the real world, you might be right. However, in the game, I beg to differ. My driving hasn’t changed that much in a couple of days that I am blind to the difference. I bettered my time on Yas Marina tonight twice with very sloppy laps because the car now slows down so much faster, and under more control too if I do it right, at the end of the long straight. On several of the turns throughout that course, I used to have to hold the brake to slow down enough. Now, just a slight tap is all that is needed.

Going down the straight at the start of the lap and then braking for the first turn is pretty much what you’re asking me to do on a test track. Well, except that I’m not coming to a full stop, but that’s not a logical comparison for the purpose of this

That is not what I’m asking you to do. I say come to a full stop from the same speed so you are comparing apples to apples. As you said above, " I used to have to hold the brake". My point of the test is to show you that if you “hold the brake” with ABS off, you will not stop as fast as with ABS on. I wanted you to see that when the tires are sliding they are not stopping. Try the test. Use a car at a speed where the brakes lock up quickly when fully depressed to see the most noticeable difference. Obviously if you use a slower car where the brakes do not lock up, the ABS wont engage either and you wont see much difference if any at all. I do not disagree at all that you slow down much quicker if you don’t slide the tires than if you use ABS and it engages. You are just confusing your results with the ABS setting and what it actually does. The ABS is designed so that when the tires start to lock up from them not rotating fast enough, the ABS kicks in and releases the tires to rotate enough to maintain friction with the road. When the tires rotate faster, the car is not stopping as fast. So you are not doing a fair comparison if you are braking without sliding the tires versus braking hard enough to slide the tires but being assisted by the ABS which allows the tires to rotate, thus increasing your stopping distance. You are not braking the same. If the ABS engages that means you would be sliding the tires with it off. This is obviously not what you are doing when you say, “if I do it right”. Again it is like pushing the object, once you overcome the initial frictional force to get it moving it becomes much easier to keep it moving. So when the tires are not sliding, you have more resistance which will stop the car faster which is what you are trying to do with ABS off. I have no doubt that you are experiencing better results with ABS off, I just disagree with why you think you are having those results. It is not just because you turned the ABS off, but because you are braking more efficiently. I would encourage anyone to drive with ABS off so you get a feel for the braking threshold. Keep up the good work.

I just got to number #34 on Yas Full with a 2:28.4. That’s 8 tenths faster than I was just 24 hours ago. My driving hasn’t improved as a whole, its been my braking. I’m still losing time with the new brakes too, so that number will improve as I get more comfortable.

The bottomline is we could go back and forth on this forever. I disagree with you, you disagree with me, so let’s just agree to disagree???

[Snack_31]

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

I just got to number #34 on Yas Full with a 2:28.4. That’s 8 tenths faster than I was just 24 hours ago. My driving hasn’t improved as a whole, its been my braking. I’m still losing time with the new brakes too, so that number will improve as I get more comfortable.

The bottomline is we could go back and forth on this forever. I disagree with you, you disagree with me, so let’s just agree to disagree???

Lou, I think we are just debating different points. It seems as though you think I am trying to say your times won’t improve. When you show me all of these times that you have improved, that is not the debate. I was simply stating that you could achieve the same times with ABS on. The question I was trying to answer is WHY you are showing improvements. I am not trying to deny the results you have seen since you have turned ABS off. I would actually expect it. I also agree that it has been primarily your braking that has improved, which is ultimately my point. I was just trying to explain why that is happening the best I could, but maybe as Daz said I didn’t do a very good job. No hard feelings, just a debate. The important thing is you are continuing to improve. My initial post was meant to provide some advice not get into all of this back and forth. Did you at least try and drop the brake pressure down to 100% and add some forward brake bias ~60%? I would much rather hear feedback on that rather than if you agree or disagree with me about mechanics.

If your interested, I did go and test on the drag strip test track and also racing against my Kia time at Indy as you suggested. I have never raced with ABS on so I figured if I was going to talk about it, I should experience it. At the drag strip, the difference between ABS on and off was negligible, I have shared pictures of the results if anyone is interested just search my gamertag. The only variable was when I applied the brakes. I tried to do it right as I crossed the big white line on the track at about the 35% finished line of the 2-car mile drag strip. It is literally a few feet difference at the most which could have been because I did not brake at exactly the same place even though I tried very hard. Against my ghost on Indy, I ran 1:33:8xx which was a typical lap for me with ABS off. I will definitely say they drive much different. If the ABS engages, you will only do more harm by trying to squeeze the trigger more to slow down as it does quite the opposite. So I’m glad I did get to experience what you were describing when you talked about not being able to make a corner holding the brake with ABS on versus hitting it right with ABS off. I agree, it is horrible! It is also counterintuitive since your brain tells you that you are going too fast, apply more brake. I noticed you have to be a lot lighter on the brakes with ABS on and it is harder to make an adjustment if you get into a corner way too hot.

Once you get used to ABS off, I would encourage you to go back and race your ghost ABS on and see if you can tell any noticeable difference. Then I will expect an apology

Anyway, I think I have wasted enough of people’s time with these long posts. There is enough information for them to make up their own minds if they are inclined. See you guys on the track.

[RPM_Lou3824]

@Snack_31

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

I just got to number #34 on Yas Full with a 2:28.4. That’s 8 tenths faster than I was just 24 hours ago. My driving hasn’t improved as a whole, its been my braking. I’m still losing time with the new brakes too, so that number will improve as I get more comfortable.

The bottomline is we could go back and forth on this forever. I disagree with you, you disagree with me, so let’s just agree to disagree???

Lou, I think we are just debating different points. It seems as though you think I am trying to say your times won’t improve. When you show me all of these times that you have improved, that is not the debate. I was simply stating that you could achieve the same times with ABS on. The question I was trying to answer is WHY you are showing improvements. I am not trying to deny the results you have seen since you have turned ABS off. I would actually expect it. I also agree that it has been primarily your braking that has improved, which is ultimately my point. I was just trying to explain why that is happening the best I could, but maybe as Daz said I didn’t do a very good job. No hard feelings, just a debate. The important thing is you are continuing to improve. My initial post was meant to provide some advice not get into all of this back and forth. Did you at least try and drop the brake pressure down to 100% and add some forward brake bias ~60%? I would much rather hear feedback on that rather than if you agree or disagree with me about mechanics.

If your interested, I did go and test on the drag strip test track and also racing against my Kia time at Indy as you suggested. I have never raced with ABS on so I figured if I was going to talk about it, I should experience it. At the drag strip, the difference between ABS on and off was negligible, I have shared pictures of the results if anyone is interested just search my gamertag. The only variable was when I applied the brakes. I tried to do it right as I crossed the big white line on the track at about the 35% finished line of the 2-car mile drag strip. It is literally a few feet difference at the most which could have been because I did not brake at exactly the same place even though I tried very hard. Against my ghost on Indy, I ran 1:33:8xx which was a typical lap for me with ABS off. I will definitely say they drive much different. If the ABS engages, you will only do more harm by trying to squeeze the trigger more to slow down as it does quite the opposite. So I’m glad I did get to experience what you were describing when you talked about not being able to make a corner holding the brake with ABS on versus hitting it right with ABS off. I agree, it is horrible! It is also counterintuitive since your brain tells you that you are going too fast, apply more brake. I noticed you have to be a lot lighter on the brakes with ABS on and it is harder to make an adjustment if you get into a corner way too hot.

Once you get used to ABS off, I would encourage you to go back and race your ghost ABS on and see if you can tell any noticeable difference. Then I will expect an apology

Anyway, I think I have wasted enough of people’s time with these long posts. There is enough information for them to make up their own minds if they are inclined. See you guys on the track.

I did not adjust the balance. I really like the 45% balance in the Kia, so I kept it that way. I did adjust the brake pressure down to something 103 or 104 though. It was whatever gave me the best benchmark in the tuning setup. I’m still not truly comfortable with the brakes, but I’m getting there.

Oh, and that apology??? Gibbs says its a sign of weakness, so one will not be forthcoming

[Snack_31]

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

@Lou3824

@Snack_31

Oh, and that apology??? Gibbs says its a sign of weakness, so one will not be forthcoming

Awe shucks, I’ll hold out hope.

[Snack_31]

Now if someone could explain to me how this “quote” or “multi-quote” thing works.

[rdo3]

abs is a very rapid pulse when it kicks in. its on, off, on, off,on, off…when the abs kicks in its actually turning the brakes off half the time, thats why you can brake faster with abs off. the brakes re on all the time andd not just half the time. your point if max braking is right before you skid so the trick is to get as close to the line of skidding without crossing it. my self the tunes i use i adjust the brake power down so i can get 100% on the brakes and still not have enough pressure to lock the wheels. its probably not as fast as having brakes that will lock up and manually saying under the threshold of skidding…but it is faster than abs.

and lou you know were gonna mess with ya when you do get a #1 time right? i’m gonna tell you i found out i was wrong. turning off assists is faster so real men set #1 times with every assist on.

[RPM_Lou3824]

@rdo3

abs is a very rapid pulse when it kicks in. its on, off, on, off,on, off…when the abs kicks in its actually turning the brakes off half the time, thats why you can brake faster with abs off. the brakes re on all the time andd not just half the time. your point if max braking is right before you skid so the trick is to get as close to the line of skidding without crossing it. my self the tunes i use i adjust the brake power down so i can get 100% on the brakes and still not have enough pressure to lock the wheels. its probably not as fast as having brakes that will lock up and manually saying under the threshold of skidding…but it is faster than abs.

and lou you know were gonna mess with ya when you do get a #1 time right? i’m gonna tell you i found out i was wrong. turning off assists is faster so real men set #1 times with every assist on.

I highly doubt I will ever get a #1. Hell, I’ll be incredibly lucky to just get a top ten someday. If I do ever get a #1 though, feel free to mess with me all you want, I’ll be too busy smiling to even notice.

[Beetfarmer89]

Turning off ABS was the first assist I dropped and I never went back. Everyone seems to have given the standard advice. Keep practicing, don’t race in hoppers, etc. I found myself out braking the braking line by quite a bit after I had gotten good at no assist braking.

[BDR_Daz]

Snack is right but I dont think the understanding of what he is saying is coming across well,

When you run ABS on in the game the tendency is to hit the trigger as hard as you can to stop as fast as you can, Cause that would make sense in a way right … The whole Premise of an Anti Lock Braking System is to make sure you don’t lock up so when the trigger is hit hard (same as in a real car with the Brake pedal) the system kicks in so the brake pads actually pulse at the disk to keep it slowing down but not locking … This is where the extra braking distance is added and this is where you lose time over a Non ABS Racer.

And then this is where you are right Lou, because with ABS off you aren’t restricted by the system looking at how much pressure you are putting through the pedal/trigger, you are able to brake later and harder due to whatever pressure input goes straight to the wheel, if its too much it locks up.

With having improved Braking is improving your Driving, its all part of the same, your driving is Lines, Braking, Acceleration, Corner Speed the list can go on, if you improve one of these things you have improved your driving its all part and parcel of the same thing

You are on the right track and the perseverance will show off and you can already see a difference in lap times

[RPM_Lou3824]

@BDR_Daz

Snack is right but I dont think the understanding of what he is saying is coming across well,

When you run ABS on in the game the tendency is to hit the trigger as hard as you can to stop as fast as you can, Cause that would make sense in a way right … The whole Premise of an Anti Lock Braking System is to make sure you don’t lock up so when the trigger is hit hard (same as in a real car with the Brake pedal) the system kicks in so the brake pads actually pulse at the disk to keep it slowing down but not locking … This is where the extra braking distance is added and this is where you lose time over a Non ABS Racer.

And then this is where you are right Lou, because with ABS off you aren’t restricted by the system looking at how much pressure you are putting through the pedal/trigger, you are able to brake later and harder due to whatever pressure input goes straight to the wheel, if its too much it locks up.

With having improved Braking is improving your Driving, its all part of the same, your driving is Lines, Braking, Acceleration, Corner Speed the list can go on, if you improve one of these things you have improved your driving its all part and parcel of the same thing

You are on the right track and the perseverance will show off and you can already see a difference in lap times

Fair enough, all I care about is that I keep getting faster. Everytime I run the car, I get a tiny bit faster. I just ran a 2:28.314 on Yas which is good for #30. Its the new highest rank I’ve ever held. I have .271 to make up in order to get my first top 25 and I really want to get it. I still can’t believe that three months ago I couldn’t break the top 500, now I have a realistic shot at top 25. Its all because of this forum too, everyone here has helped me enormously and I can’t say thanks enough.

[ID_TimberWolf]

ABS was one of the first things I dropped and never looked back. As mentioned if you go over the brake threshold and lock the brakes IT DOESN’T MAKE YOU BRAKE FASTER. However if you compare the same car and brake keeping the car without ABS just on the brake threshold without going over then there should be a very noticeable difference of which car stops first. ABS has it’s advantages in real world and disadvantages of making sure that the person can’t go over brake threshold but at the same time that driver can’t use the full potential of the brakes.

yes it takes practice to race without it but in the long run I would suggest practicing with it and without it and choose which is better for you

[BDR_Daz]

Tell you what dude your doing good though ! I dont run C class (the only C class ive done is the no colissions hopper) just purchased the Cee’d and gave it a go, I can run top 100 times easy in the R class and X but when I come to trying that cee’d, it could be the setup but I only got 324 on the boards ! its a whole different kettle of fish to drive that class, fair play for being in the 30’s !!

[RPM_Lou3824]

@BDR_Daz

Tell you what dude your doing good though ! I dont run C class (the only C class ive done is the no colissions hopper) just purchased the Cee’d and gave it a go, I can run top 100 times easy in the R class and X but when I come to trying that cee’d, it could be the setup but I only got 324 on the boards ! its a whole different kettle of fish to drive that class, fair play for being in the 30’s !!

LOL, its your tune. I have a thread in the Tuners Lounge with the open source to two different tunes for the Kia. They both have the rally motor in them and they are a beast. There are quite a few top ten times with the cars and lots and lots of new people to the top 100 because of the car. Download it from my storefront or build it from the open source thread and have a go with it. You will get much much higher than 324.

[RPM_Lou3824]

@Lou3824

@BDR_Daz

Tell you what dude your doing good though ! I dont run C class (the only C class ive done is the no colissions hopper) just purchased the Cee’d and gave it a go, I can run top 100 times easy in the R class and X but when I come to trying that cee’d, it could be the setup but I only got 324 on the boards ! its a whole different kettle of fish to drive that class, fair play for being in the 30’s !!

LOL, its your tune. I have a thread in the Tuners Lounge with the open source to two different tunes for the Kia. They both have the rally motor in them and they are a beast. There are quite a few top ten times with the cars and lots and lots of new people to the top 100 because of the car. Download it from my storefront or build it from the open source thread and have a go with it. You will get much much higher than 324.

Oh, its a long thread… The fastest version (on most tracks) is the second one. The open source to that is on page 5 or 6.

[BDR_Daz]

I shall have a look tomorrow although it is the tune I was trying to run down that straight with 230bhp … hmm dont think thats ever going to be good haha