There is a lot of bad info in these forums about ABS so let’s dispel the myth right away. I’ve tracked cars with ABS and no ABS and there isn’t a significant difference in braking ability. The big difference is the less skilled driver can brake as good and consistent as a pro.
Here’s feedback from a Real race driver to back it up, not my neighbor, not a friend’s best friend’s brother, but a real source:
Behind the Wheel
Mike Hedlund, DragonSpeed Ferrari driver in Pirelli World Challenge, was kind enough to answer a few questions about what it’s like to drive the cars. Mike has experience behind the wheel of a GTD spec Ferrari 458 as well as a GT3 (Pirelli World Challenge) spec Ferrari 458. Mikes first comment was on the how you drive the cars.
“The GTLM and GT3 cars have a lot more downforce so you tend to roll a lot more speed through the entry and middle part of the corner compared to a GTD car. GTD cars tend to square off more corners in order to get rotated early and back to the power since they can’t roll the same speed through the corner. The horsepower and weight is very close between them all. Driver aids don’t help much in terms of lap time, just makes them easier to drive close to the limit.”
I love Forza, it is a very well executed game and a lot of fun. However, I like to drive the GT3 race cars with ABS enabled because that is exactly how they are driven in real life. The issue with ABS in Forza 6 is the implementation of it results in a very negative impact on lap times. This is a shame because that isn’t how it is in real life. I know FM6 isn’t a Sim however it is good enough to not add penalties where they shouldn’t exist. Using the ABS system in Forza is a penalty and it shouldn’t be. This makes it more difficult to run with the AI in unbeatable, and overtaking on the brakes isn’t a viable option. Again, really enjoy this game but I hope T10 considers a patch to resolve this. Keep up the great work and thanks for a lot of hours of enjoyment!
Tune the brakes to work better while having ABS enabled? Didn’t think of that but will give it a try. Care to share what you are tuning to improve? That still won’t result in getting it on par with not using ABS at all but I’ll take any improvement I can get. Cheers.
I don’t use ABS but was told that’s what they were doing to avoid lockups. I’m guessing the pressures are really low. I remember driving an ABS tune created by one of the best ABS users and remember the brakes being fairly unresponsive. I kinda zoned out on the official figures lol, but would think less than 100%.
This is what I find funny in these post. The want the computer to basically drive or mask all of the driver errors then complains with is doesn’t also do it as well as a skilled driver.
The car initially locks the brakes when you jam on the brakes with ABS. As result you slide tires for a bit until ABS starts working as designed. If you max out the pressures you’re begging the car to slide tires. If you lower pressures the sliding can be somewhat avoided.
When I used ABS years ago that was my big issue. The car would go straight initially after applying brakes.
Same thing happens in my real life truck. I skid tires for a bit if I jam on the brakes too hard. It’s easier to control in real life than on a small trigger. In real life I can tell when I’m approaching the locking point, in forza it’s a little harder.
If ABS worked as you described, there would be no point in running without it. You would always be faster with it on.
Well, there is the issue. You “jam” on the brakes. Neither peddle is an on/off switch. Squeeze then ease. The issue is with your driving. This isn’t black magic here. You can use google. The reason why some Motorsport organizations don’t use abs is because of threshold braking. Some Motorsport organizations use abs because the drivers will in fact crash hard without it. There is no right or wrong here.( except for a couple of you guys don’t understand what abs is.)
If you are locking up with abs on it’s not the pressure that is the problem it’s your driving or your diff. So sure you can reduce pressure and just give away free performance and worsen your braking for some reason, or fix your driving/diff.
Bahaha you know a lot don’t ya? I can promise you it wasn’t my driving. When I used an ABS setup (I couldn’t tune back then) it was lights out. All you gotta worry about is memorizing the exact braking point and smash the brakes. It was simple. I distinctly remember discovering a tune, pacing top 3-4 times at Road Atlanta in FM3 and smashing the brakes to my hearts content. I think I settled for like 8th or 9th and world’s fastest ABS time. You never forget your first top 10. Yea, I was a beast. How things have changed.
If a top tune created by ABS player has soft brakes, I can tell. I could also tell that late braking wasn’t an option at times. Lower pressures, back up braking a tad and hit the apex at crazy speed and you got a fast time. No need to worry about the jamming techique. I’ve learned enough to know you don’t have to modulate the brakes to my surprise. I could understand on 360, but thought it was different with new physics and sensitive controller.
Tune it right, drive perfect, smash brakes = fast lap.
I agree and the same can be said about automatic transmission. It is a huge penalty compared to manual or manual with clutch but the fact is that in modern sports cars an automatic transmission is just faster than manual, it shifts almost instantly which is something you cannot do as fast with manual and a clutch.
I honestly wish the devs would stop holding our hands and remove the assists from the game. They are not assists in the first place, they are features of a car. If I drive a classic vintage sports car I don’t even want to be able to use ABS, stability control and automatic settings since they are not real to begin with. And if I drive a modern LMP1 car there shouldn’t be manual with clutch either, those cars are (mostly) paddle shifted.
It’s time for this game to step up and get this stuff towards realism. If not Forza then surely another game will do it.
The assists in the game are implemented in such a way that if you activate them too much you are slower. So you need to try to not set them off too much, just have them there to prevent driver errors causing offs.
So either squeezing the brake pedal or trigger less or reducing pressure may help you brake well without triggering ABS too much to the point of it making you slower.
Personally I believe high pressure where the driver controls it is better as you then have as much braking as you need. Lower the pressure and you are reducing the max braking available to you.
Exactly. Although abs is not really a hindrance in Forza. TC and stability is. If they implemented TC slip, it would solve quite a bit of the issue. If you really need it, leave it at a lower %, if not raise high.
But on the other hand, this isn’t a sim and doesn’t sell itself as a sim so that’s why we have very very basic tuning options. Can’t really get upset at something for not being what it isn’t suppose to be.
The issue is that both TCS and ABS are way oversensitive in FM6 compared to earlier titles. I run ABS and I have to set my brakes to an average of 80% pressure. Any higher that that, and the game’s ABS registers “normal braking” as “lockup braking” and it kicks in, drastically increasing stopping distances no matter how smoothly you try to apply the brakes.
In the world of Forza they’re accessibility features. There’s a fairly large number of handicapped Forza players who rely on the assists to make the game playable for them. If you get rid of universal assists you make it impossible for them to play the game. Not only that, but you’d also be alienating casuals (the source of the majority of Turn 10’s income) and drastically raising the learning curve for newcomers.
If anything Turn 10 needs to reduce the penalty that most assists come with so that people can play the game how ever they want (with or without assists) and not be punished for it. Options are everything.
It’s time for people to accept that Forza isn’t aiming to be a hardcore simulator, it’s meant to appeal and be accessible to everyone of every age and skill level, albeit with a bias towards realism. If you want a hardcore simulator iRacing exists.
At the end of the day the solution is for the user (where possible) to learn how to brake well themselves without ABS - ie remove the in game ABS as a problem yourself by turning it off.
And before some say oh but the brakes are too sensitive well people are smashing number 1 times on controllers without ABS.
The reason manual transmission/shifting is faster is valid in real life. Manually changing the gears allows you to keep the car in its power band (the point where the motor is producing the mist power) longer. Modern race cars mostly use Manual transmissions with paddle shifters, not automatic transmissions.
As for ABS, since it modulates brake inputs, it literally takes away driver control of braking points. This is true in real life as well. However, with Forza, you have the opportunity to tune the brakes carefully and actually take back most of that control by limiting how much control ABS robs from you.
For years I was physically unable to use manual w/clutch in Forza. So, I used ABS, TCS, SMS, and Automatic transmission. Then I tuned the car to get the best out of the car and those assists. I got pretty good, and very consistent, but my potential was limited due to the assists doing their assigned jobs.
When I regained most of the use of my hand again, I turned all the assists off and put in thousands of hours in test drive, learning to drive and tune all over again. Turning ABS off was one of the most notable changes. I was able to drive farther into turns and use heel-toe braking to drive the car through turns much more efficiently, because ABS wasn’t making my braking decisions for me.
Going to manual with clutch was about a 6 second improvement for me. I had learned how to tune the Automatic transmission to stay in the power band longer, but having the ability to control it on every turn, or while passing, made a big difference.
In theory, these assist systems are working as they would in real life, but possibly have been manipulated just enough to make them worth striving for in the game. You can look at them as penalties, that’s your prerogative. But, it’s a game that uses available tools to make it easier for beginners and reward progress.
A few people, you included, and no offense, are missing the point. To those that do understand it, thank you for the comments. This is not a point of view issue. Has nothing to do with the glass being half full or half empty. The GT3 car in real life has ABS, I can drive faster without ABS in Forza, the issue is I shouldn’t need to disable ABS on a car that in real life uses ABS to go faster in FM6. A few posters here have never been to a real race track in a modern sports car using ABS. Not everyone will be able to do that, it isn’t cheap, I understand that, but some of the comments about ABS here are…
Being involved with PCA I recall the main reason the 997 Cup car didn’t have ABS when the previous gen did is because it allowed lesser drivers to run quicker (that upset the experienced guys) and the argument of a more organic experience won out. Whether it should be or shouldn’t be or is this fair or that not, how I personally feel about it and how I like my steak cooked isn’t the point. The point is in FM6 ABS for a race spec car is a penalty and I hope that changes in the future, via patch or the next version. FM6 has a lot of sim attributes, tire model, wear, heat, and pit stops, damage, and fuel usage, so why not keep improving the game to be more accurate? Make race spec ABS an option on GT3s, and still allow no ABS and everyone is happy right? I see no harm in wanting that. Cheers everyone.
it’s not the pressure that is the problem it’s your driving or your diff. So sure you can reduce pressure and just give away free performance and worsen your braking for some reason, or fix your driving/diff.