Suggestion to improve online racing competitiveness and pitstops

Forza Motorsport Forza Motorsport (2023) Discussion
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Hello iv played forza motorsport since the first ever game on the first xbox console.
I would like to consider to the dev team that tyres be taken out if the equation when modifying your car.
Theres too many instances where a select few cars have superior handling and are able to outperform cars with racing tyres and also not have to pit. You could spend hours building a car and percecting the feel and balance only to be beaten because your opponents dont need to take a pit stop on sport, street or stock tyres.
Everyone should have to choose hard medium or soft nothing else, this is motorsport.
I know its not a sim but more of a simcade but lets rebalance the pi system to not include what tyres are on the vehicle so we can race fairly.

Ill give one example a ford mustang 350 can achieve 5.6 handling rating with sport tyres in A class and still has as much power as any other car on race tyres which struggle to get in the 4-5 rating.
There are a select few cars that can achieve this and my skill level should not have to depend on wether i decide to drive in these cars for easy victories.

Thanks guys hope we can make some changes to improve online racing.

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NASCAR was a solid win
Think formula 1-4 series cars would be nice,
Iroc series, formula Mazda was fun when they host it.
All of these are competitive irl. Locked engine builds, the best chassis and handling tuning to see who wins.

Having enough laps for a mandatory pit stop or tire wear multiplier cranked up so we have to pit once per race atleast…?

When scrolling through the events would be nice to see how many players is already there before entering said event.

3

I would say this approach is flawed in a few ways. Theres a few variables when choosing how to upgrade your car. Depending on the class, the car, the track and the laps, theres always an optimal way to build it.

Your particular problem is you chose to use race tires, which do have the most grip when you use softs. But in a longer race, you cant use softs and depending on the laps may have to use hards which arent superior in grip compared to the some of the other tires.

So ultimately youre giving up that tires greatest strength, which means they arent particularly useful. This is why people go the other route, they dont use race tires as longevity is more important. Theyre also able to add other upgrades because of the savings in pi.

I do understand where youre coming from, but in the long run the point of the game is to create the best car you can and try to win with it. In your particular case youre not maximizing the performance of the car for these types of races, thats on you not anyone else.

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Motorsport ≠ slicks tires

Things like GT3, touring cars race seem to be what you are looking for.

One main point of Forza is about to build your car, forcing to use slicks reduce the capacity of build, and slicks doesn’t suit everyone.

I personally use street/sport tires not because i don’t have to pit in long race but just because i like to run A to D class, where that amount of grip is boring (for me) because cars have less power and i like to push my tires a bit hard who make them heat , with slicks, and sometimes semi slicks too they wear too much if i do that.

If you loose a long race because of pit, then try hard compound if you don’t, or go for sport of street as said above, it’s also a part of strategy

5

I do a lot of 1-1.5 hour races and I have never really noticed that tires are the real issue with races of this length. What I find to be the issue is the huge imbalance in fuel capacity within the car divisions. I don’t know why some cars that are in race series like IMSA or WEC in which car fuel capacities are all about the same in this game vary so much. I don’t know why the C8R can only do half the number of laps as the 911 when in real life they max out at the same amount of laps. I don’t know why some of the race cars from the 60s seem to be able to do 10 times the number of laps as modern sports cars.

1 Like
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The hard compound is far too slow for the pi and handling rating given for race tyres, do you even understand the pi system?
I put in the first line of my statement that i have played since forza motorsport 1 to try avoid any patronising comments like this.

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Sounds similar to your proposal.

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Are hard tires really have less grip then sport tires?

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Someone made a chart thats either on here or reddit that had all types of test results on tires that shows how they stack up against eachother. I cant say definitively as ive never tested this out, but from experience in certain class lobbies, for certain cars, sport tires are the better choice.

This is easily tested by choosing a car, run some laps with sport tires, write down best lap and average lap time. Then do the same with hard race tires and see what it shows. The only other variable would be tire width because someone who is going to choose sports instead of race tires would likely have the available pi to fully upgrade the width.

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I dont know about decoupling tires from pi or from public lobbies, but adding the option to freeplay/custom multiplayer would certainly be fine.

Putting restrictions on upgrades in an open lobby would mean they arent open anymore. Theres also a similar issue with no stops when everyone uses race tires. Realistically this is an issue caused by lap count. I dont think turn 10 took sport tires into account, they seem to base things off race tire life and even then it allows for a meta.

Personally i think the easiest thing to do is just add a required pit stop. You can either make a tire change or just drive through the pit lane which would be a little quicker. It would still allow a no tire change strategy to exist, while also allowing other strategies to be viable.

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Yup, but that’s not on me.

You say that everyone should use race tyres, i just answered you that not everyone like/want to use race compound.

If a rework can be made for make tyres more balanced i’m for it. But force peoples to go for race tyres isn’t a solution.

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Another solution would be to reduce the amount of time a pit stop takes so that anyone running mediums or softs stays in the race.

On most tracks a pit stop costs you about what, 30 seconds?

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Not sure how they’d do that. The stops themselves are already ridiculously quick…when I was still playing a few months back, I remember coming into the pits and getting a full tank of fuel in under 3 seconds. What would you propose? They can’t very well change the pit entrance or exit locations to make the pit lanes physically shorter. Increase the pit lane speed limit? What would they do, double it? Remove it altogether? Go too far and you start bordering on silliness. Although I suppose it doesn’t matter all that much since you have no control over your car once you’ve crossed the entry line anyway.

Personally, I’m of the mindset that tires should be regulated per category. Other than maybe some random unsanctioned autocross meet, I can’t think of a single real-world racing series where I’ve seen cars on a mixture of slicks, semi-slicks, and road tires.

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I dont think things should be done to negate strategy, if anything it should be more important. Theres already races that require race tires which are the ones which have race cars in them. Open class is exactly that open, so technically anything goes.

There would be two options with tire restrictions. One would be race tires only, which still wouldnt fix the no stop strategy being meta. The other would be no race tires, which would negate the need for pit stops all together.

I dont know how much of a problem this actually is. Personally ive won races using builds with race tires as well as road tires. Its up to me which option to choose and id always rather have that option. The only time this is really an issue, is if you dont win the race and can pinpoint the reason as being the tires.

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Maybe events with specific tire requirements… Each car must run Race tire compounds, to level that playing field.

Or Turn 10 could make the sport tires wear at the same rate as the Hard Race tire. If they don’t have the same grip as the race tire, then that may be a fix.

Or races where the tire wear is elevated, mandate a number of pitstops and force a compound change. That would make non race tires ineligible.

There are things which seem like easy fixes to this problem but, its easy to write “solutions” on an internet forum.

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The fun of Forza is having variety, but it’s also one of it’s weaknesses.

Having such a huge variety of cars means some of them will be a bit unbalanced for open class.

I don’t think the balance issue comes from the tires but the PI rating scaled with the fuel tank.

The car’s performance is calculated on a full tank of gas, so while it may be PI 884 on a full tank 100%(56 laps) (+440lbs), it may really be PI 915 or higher on short race fuel 8%(4 laps) (+35lbs).

Using the Ferrari 312 T2 as an example.

The same also applies to the McLaren M8B, that rocket ship that everyone uses in R class.

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I havent tested anything to know whats definitive or not, to determine how much of an issue this is. Is this an issue due to a certain class, a certain race length or just certain cars.

There are definitely ways to change certain parameters, but in this particular case any change made would most likely sway towards sport or race tires. I dont see any option that would benefit both.

The hard does seem to be the faster tire over the sport, but not enough to make up for a pit stop, giving an edge to the sport. If you lower the laps, the hard tire would be the ideal choice, but basically remove any benefit of the sport tire other than in a wet race.

Theres also the variability of skill. A better skilled driver who can secure a big enough lead, could also do a no stop. We dont have any data to go by to really see which way to go.

Im sure some people like the idea of not having to use race tires to compete. Conversely theres people who think race tires should be the only option. I think unfortunately, its another situation where the cats out of the bag so to speak. If the game launched with restrictions people would have been more accepting. To change things now would likely make more people upset.

As in real life, people dont like when certain freedoms, whether real or not, are taken away even if its for the greater good. So in a way i think it may be too late to change these things.

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Or they would have been upseted before to buy the game, then just skip it :sweat_smile: .

I’d like if open class was divised in 2 modes, one for race tyres only, the other one for other tyres. I think that something who will make the experience better for everyone.

Those on race don’t have to worry so much about the ability to not pit.

Those on other tyres still can build their car how they want, and can find easier peoples on similar build.

19

I dont think splitting open lobbies into two would solve anything. It would create a bigger problem which is divide the playerbase that those lobbies have.

The answer to this is already there, which is these are open lobbies. People can build the car any way they want to do, they can choose whatever tire theyd like. If you feel as though the tires are the reason for not winning, then change your tires.

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It’s not about the win but the difference on pace it create, it’s like cars like exocet, formula mazda, or full handling build on D/E class, they have much more grip, so on corners/braking points it create a huge difference on the car ability who doesn’t help to provide a “self environment”. Those cars go faster than others on corners, and have less chance to lost grip due to the huge grip and less power.

That’s mostly the same when other tyres run against slick.

You end up with a car who go faster than you on corners, who isn’t the problem, but they tend to always rear end you because they can accelerate more, sooner, reach more high speed, they also tend to always try to pass you because you go slower even if it’s risky.

Braking/decelerate cost to those cars a lot on their pace, so i can understand that’s annoying for them to have a car with lower grip in front who slow them, but that’s also annoying for us to have someone who rear end you because he doesn’t understand that i can’t follow his cornering speed.

We end with peoples who want the race to be on race tyres only, who is bad, because then, what are we driving if we don’t like slicks ?

I don’t use slicks because it feel better and more interesting for me to race on a car with a lower amount of grip > then it’s on the driver to use tyres the best he can, control the trottle etc, for try to go fast as he can with a limited amount of grip.

Everyone have a different pace, cars have different pace too, but tyres is the thing who impact that pace the most, especially for slicks who also wear faster, so, instead of have to worry for things like “sport/street tyres can last for the whole race, and if i go for hard, it’s mostly the same as if i was on sport”.

Then they can just have an environment who provide the type of race they want.

They’re peoples who would like that kind of strategy when it come about to have to pit.
But as it remain actually it’s all about how to not to, and if you force a mandatory pit, then it’s gonna be a problem for others compounds.

Then yeah lobby will have less peoples because they are splitted on 2 differents, but having more peoples on the tracks doesn’t make the race more interesting, reduce a bit the disparity of pace is