When using a controller, this REALLY throws me off… And I can’t for the life of me figure out why the ONLY difference between Normal and Simulation is how much the game allows you to countersteer.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is how it seems the game is set up when using a controller.
Normal Steering:
Turn In - Assisted
Countersteer - Assisted
Simulation Steering:
Turn In - Assisted
Countersteer - Not Assisted
Because “turn in” is assisted based on your speed and “countersteer” is not, I have no concept of how far I have to move the thumbstick for either direction. I may have to move it ALL the way right to get a good turn in, but only 25% to the left to apply the same amount of countersteer.
If my “turn in” angle wasn’t limited by speed I could make minor corrections throughout the turn by adjusting how far I push the thumbstick rather than jamming it all the way (not really knowing how far I’m allowed to turn due to the assist) and then countersteering to correct my angle throughout the turn.
dont use sim stearing. controlers have dead zones unlike real cars. a controller is like driving a real car with damaged steering where the steering dosn;t kick in until after a few degrees. when trying to react quickly many time by the time the steering kicks in and you sense realize it you’ve went to far. your subconscious also uses the g’s your body feels which you dont have with a controler.
if the tune i am driving seems overly sensitive in the steering i dont tilt the left stick, i hold it steady and slightly lift or lower the left side of the controller. it’ll take your subconscious a few races to pick it up but once it does you’ll have a much finer degree of control due to the increased distance of real movement per degree of simulated movement. your turning will get less twitchy.
I don’t think Simulation Steering have Assisted Turn-In, it feels to have more precision at turn-in than normal steering for me, but I have problems with countersteer, so I use “Normal”
There has always been some form assist that reduces turning lock depending on speed. It is necessay because otherwise it would be far too sensitive with just a small analogue stick but, it feels overdone on the controller in fm5. I’m struggling again with getting the right turn in at high speed, but i did have a wheel in fm4, so it is a learning curve again.
As for sim steering, I have no problems using the controller with this and no other assist (even the atom v8 is fine), but it does take some learning and measured inputs.
If I may offer my 2 cents and it’s helped me in my FPS playing and also quite well with Forza 5 (as I found out), try getting those controller extenders for the thumbsticks. They really do make making incremental steering changes so much easier. Not even trying to be a shill for the company that makes them either. They have helped and are cheap enough to have one for every controller.
It is a lot harder to countersteer compared to other Forzas…but tbh I"m using a controller and I cannot tell the difference between normal and simulation steering.
Try adjusting the dead zone settings (main menu,forza profile, controller then press x to get into the advanced settings.) I have also changed the trigger dead zones as there’s very little movement from light acceleration to full, same with the break. The dead zone on the stick is also set to 24% by default, a little to high imo!
My settings are 0 inside and 100 outside for both break and throttle this gives you a lot more to play with when balancing either of them, and I have the left stick set to 10 inside and 100 outside again giving you more precision. Hope this helps!
This is EXACTLY the problem… There is NO difference between Normal and Simulation steering until you start to countersteer. In my opinion, the purpose of simulation steering is a “high risk, high reward” option that gives players more control, but is also less forgiving. Currently, simulation steering is “high risk, same reward” because of the limited steering lock.
Can anyone honestly say they are consistently and considerably faster using simulation steering vs normal with a controller?
I don’t think using one over the other is faster. Idk i guess countersteering is a bit harder with simulation steering, doesn’t bother me too much. Just adds to the challenge of driving without assists.
That is kind of my point… Simulation steering should have the potential to be faster if the player is good enough. Take all the other assists for example…
Traction Control:
When turned off you can accelerate faster… but push too hard and your tires lose grip making you slower.
ABS:
When turned off you can break harder, stopping in a shorter distance… Brake too hard though and your wheels lock up making you slower.
Shifting:
Manual shifting gives you more control over when and what gear, this allows you to be faster. Not shifting at/into the correct time or gear will result in you being slower.
Every option MINUS steering follows the “high risk, high reward” outline. They give you more control, at the expense of forgiveness when making a mistake. When it comes to steering however, it only gives you more control over countersteer… which is why there is NO advantage to using it.
In fact, using simulation steering is a BIG disadvantage because the balance between steering lock and opposite lock is completely thrown off.
Maybe what’s being noticed is an improvement to the physics more so than a change to sim steering. I would think an identical steering input would have much more of an effect on the trajectory of the nose of your car once the rear grip has been lost. I don’t really know though… and I don’t even have FM5 so…
I play on controller for about another week and i use normal steering because i feel the same way, “high risk, same reward”. But i have played using a wheel and sim steering is definitely the better option. I personally dislike the turn in assist as i feel it hinders me more than it helps.
Oh and has no one else noticed that it’s not just speed that determines turn in, but gear as well. Gear biased turn in has been a problem for a long time in Forza and it is a lot of the reason people run faster with say a 5 gear tune vs a 7 gear tune.
I have used sim steering via the controller for both FM4 and FM5.
Turn in, cornering or whatever aspect of car directional control you want to discuss is affected by every aspect of your input - steering throttle brakes engine braking etc etc. So steering input is a single aspect of a complex set of physical reactions.
I find it easy to ‘overdrive’ a car if I’m under stress. for example chasing a lead car for the win. The harder I try the slower I go. to maximise my control I need to relax my hands. This allows you to get a more delicate control as you can ‘feel’ better.
there is nothing wrong with the sim steering. Its the same as any other assist. Top racers are keen to promote driving without assists as the way to go. ‘switch it off, get slower, learn and get faster’. Sounds like that advice still applies…
(incidentally - I have little gel covers on my triggers which makes the toggle diameter slightly bigger. does it make it easier to use sim steering???)
Normal steering:
Turn in - assisted (it curbs the speed at which the wheel rotates, of course)
Countersteer - assisted (doesnt matter, MAGIC keeps you from losing control anyway. Normal steering is the single most effective assist to make driving easier in the game hands down. More then any other assist easily. At absolutely no cost to speed as well.)
Sim Steering:
Turn in - assisted (it curbs the speed at which the wheel rotates, of course) Because it makes sense. If you are driving a car to the edge of what it can do and turn toward an apex, you are NOT going to snap the steering wheel to full lock toward the turn. That would be ridiculous wouldn’t it? I agree though it is assisted still.
Countersteer - Not assisted? Because it makes sense. Now… while in a turn, pushed to the limit, the back tires start to slide out because of:
Going to fast
Poor tuning
Jerky inputs
Bad Decel setting (ok that is tuning as well)
Getting bumped etc etc
You will NEED to rotate the wheel quickly to react to the oversteer. It will be MUCH harder to fix. There is no MAGIC to save you in that situation. Hence “SIM”. For anybody that doesn’t notice a difference between the two you most likely drive lower, more controllable cars, or you are really driving properly. For people struggling with sim steering: Most times that you need to “countersteer” you are probably doing something wrong. You are pushing too hard, you are throttling too much, your car is tuned wrong, it is slower to drive that way period. Switching from normal to sim is very difficult but when I did it, it erased my bad habits over a couple weeks, almost completely. I got faster because I had to learn to drive the right way.
Normal: MUCH easier, can withstand getting bumped while racing, can push past the cars limits, Magic saves you, just as fast as sim
SIM: MUCH harder, getting bumped can be devastating to a race, can’t push past limits, no magic and all skill, just as fast as normal
It was stated that snapping the wheel to full lock in a corner would be ridiculous, while I agree for the most part, Iould still like the option to do so. Sim steering when heard makes me think it’s supposed to be simulation, so why can’t I have full control. The counter steer with Sim steering shows how much it is not ment for controller, use it with a wheel and all the sudden it is perfect. Like I mentioned earlier though, turn in is also capped by gear, not only speed, hence the reason people are running less gears but are running faster laps. Perfect example is the lotus e21.
