Thanks for the setup, I need to try it.
I agree, softening the suspension helps with steering quite a lot. That said, even the stiffer setup should allow linear turning but I guess it is what it is, at the moment anyway.
My point was more about using actual RL stock setup values for the car, but carry on I guess. M3 and M4 GTS come with adjustable suspension from the factory. In order to match that, I have to install the race suspension in game. Both cars seem to handle quite well with their actual RL suspension tune values in this game. Iām assuming that many other cars are in the same boat. Goal here was to show that T10 does not need to use their own made up tunings.
We should be given very usable and balanced default tunings to start from, not whatever this nonsense is they insist on setting.
If I can scour the web and find these values, they can too. Stop setting us up for failure with garbage tunes.
On controller, this is cause by the fact you are not in control of how much the steering rack actually turns the front wheels. Theres speed dampening. Pulling left or right on the analogue stick isnt going to give the same front wheel angle at 30mph as it will give at 45mph. Its why Forza is so entry friendly because it prevents a wide margin of oversteer due to player overinput. This has been the Forza way since the beginning, and really the only way to overcome it is with tuning for more oversteer than you should.
On wheel, I have no idea. Never got Motorsport to run anywhere near playable on my wheel. Horizon 5 however feels great.
Iām tellin yāall itās more about how theyāre tuning than it is the controls. Even the stock tunes are wrong. Every suspension tune done by T10 feels awful. This one I shared here that uses actual M3 GTS values feels just about right on a controller. I experience no lack of steering angle or understeer with it. Same goes for the M4 GTS tuning values I found. 911 GT3 RS as well. Any time Iāve input actual RL suspension values into this game theyāve felt near excellent.
the base tune of almost every car in game is just bordline understeer to maske it safe for amature drivers, but if you install a rear ARB and set it to stiff front low and rear rebound to high its gonna oversteer.
2 keep in mind lots of sportscar like posrche have very small front tyres and massive rear. i ussualy then only upgrade front to get a tyre offset of max 30mm front rear 20 mm ideally
What kit is that?
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If you hate understeer just widen the front tires.
Iām not sure why everyone wants to fight oversteer all the time. Thatās no better than understeer.
And tuning out understeer is extremely easy. Itās seriously not a problem. I can take any car in the entire game and make it have so much oversteer itās undrivable.
Not to mention not every car is going to oversteer, in fact the opposite. Most RWD cars have wide rear tiresā¦ so they donāt oversteer. A lot of the RR/MR cars would be undrivable without wider rear tires. Iāve driven FWD cars in this game that oversteer without tuning. It all depends on the car.
I think you all are making a mountain out of an ant hill, and need to try driving more cars. Itās really not a problem except a few select cars.
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Itās the changes in steering angle at mid-low speeds without a change in controller input that is the issue.
The built in controller assists take you off apex. Itās not understeer, itās the controller smoothing algorithm completely changing steering angle.
It seems to allow understeer at higher speeds, but change steering angle to avoid it at lowe speeds.
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No, thatās just how tire physics work. You will always understeer at higher speeds unless you have a ratio of more front downforce than rear downforce or if your front tires are wider than rear or your suspension is tuned to promote it, it would require more front grip than rear grip. And you donāt want it anyways, in Automation itās called terminal oversteer, and for good reason, because a car that oversteers at high speeds is entirely unstable and unusable.
And also increasing the steering angle at higher speeds isnāt going to magically make it oversteer either, it will only cause the front tires to lose grip and slide (even more understeer), or if the car has terminal oversteer, itāll just lose control and spin out.
Seriously try Automation and BeamNG where all these values are tunable in game and you will see what Iām talking about.
I use simulation steering even with a controller and I literally do not experience any kind of widespread understeer issues. And I genuinely hope T10 doesnāt take this thread seriously. The handling model is superb as-is, one of the few things they got right.
Throwback to this quote
I think what @AlexTheKid4773 is referring to is the second āother sideā of the understeering issue in this thread.
As far as I can tell the physics behind the tire/suspension/driving model is fine. They handle like they should most of the time, I understeer when I expect to understeer, I oversteer when I expect to oversteer, etc. But the issue that some other people in this thread and I have encountered is when the steering just kinda decides āhey, letās just not steer as tightly anymoreā. It doesnāt āfeelā like the same kind of understeer in any other driving circumstances, at least through whatever feel that a controller provides (almost literally; I find most if not all controller vibration goes away during this kind of understeer issue).
It could be debated as to how much of it is actually just physics and weāre just going crazy, and how much of it is related to how Forza handles steering on controller. All I know is the handling feels like it does goofy stuff at times.
I play on ānormalā steering, but Iāll have to give sim steering a crack. The thing that turns me away from sim steering are sim twitches, but I need to see if I still encounter the same issueā¦
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This. In my opinion it also changes steering speed. I either cut the corner or go slightly wide. Time after time. Some cars / tunes are less affected by this but itās still there. For me, ironically, many times itās the neutral handling tunes which are the most affected ones. Itās like steering canāt make up itās mind whether to turn or not and how quickly. Weight transfer or other things seems to make very little difference here which seems really odd.
This subject also seems to be really difficult to explain to other people. Itās not understeer. Maybe I just donāt find the right words for it and not really knowing whatās causing it doesnāt help much to be honest.
Morpheus said it better than I so I just quote him.
āWhat you know you canāt explain, but you feel it.ā "You donāt know what it is, but itās there, like a splinter in your mindā
Welp. Reset all my deadzones. Understeer gone. Jus mopped difficulty 8 drivatars on Spa. Couldnāt do this before the deadzone reset.
Yeah. Jus absolutely decimated difficulty 8 drivatars at Watkins Glen. Blew past them all in the first lap. Full field of 23 cars too. Never been able to do this until now.
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There are some corners, that if you enter from outside the āracing lineā you CANNOT turn tight enough with the controller to make the corner within the confines of the racing surface. No tire squeal, no slippage- just a complete lack of steering. Overestimating has nothing to do with it. Turn10 has programmed the controller inputs to allow more steering angle in certain parts of the track than others, and failed to encompass the entirety of the corner- so if you get outside of it you are simply unable to make the corner without almost coming to a stop.
Some examples:
Suzuka- the hairpin. enter late (like making a pass on the outside) and you cannot turn enoughuntil youāve slowed to less than 35mph, and as an added bonus accelerating from the outside (right side of the lane) when exiting van cause the car to steer itself to the right (and right off the track).
Indianapolis (road course)- the left hand turn after coming off the banking (by the pit entrance). If you attempt a wide entry here (such as in a slower car trying to keep ground speed up, or passing on the outside)- you WILL drive off the track.
Kylami- Hairpin at the top of the hill. Wide entry here will usually result in you driving off into the gravel.
Daytona- First 180 degree right, and the left heading back onto the banking
Mid Ohio- I think itās turn 4 (tight left over crest) Outside entry= lawncare business
Watkins Glenn Turn 1 (the 90) carrying too much speed through here will lead to your drivatar actually steering out of the corner rather then maintaining the input given, steering you over the rumble strips, and into a penalty, Third turn from the end on the full course is just like all the others, late entry results in no steering angle.
I am sure there are more, but these are the most irritating. It is one thing to enter a corner too hot, or lock up the brakes and lose steering because of a mistake I made, it is a completely different issue when it is a mistake by the game studio that sends me sailing off into the woods.
Grab a controller and try any of the above scenarios.
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Turn 10 set the controller to turn at MAX Grip, if the corned is banked and car is pushed down to the ground, of course you will manage to turn more, You go over a crest where the car si lifter, reducing grip, the controller will turn less,that happens also with the wheel, only thing is that with the wheel you have to search for that point, where the Controller is served to you on a silver plate, no hassle.
I think your examples would be helpful in āsteering inconsistency with controllerā-troubleshooting topic.
And yes, I agree with you that overestimating has nothing to do with it, sometimes you just notice that steering has left the chat.
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You are completely missing the point. On the examples given- THERE WILL BE NO (ZERO, NADA, ZIP, NONE) TIRE SLIP. You are simply not given enough steering angle to make the corner.
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