I should also clarify what I meant by the delta. My best lap time in the tune set up was a full second quicker than my best in the stock tune, I just wasn’t as consistent with it. The stock tune I was never move than 4/10ths away from the quickest lap over the 10 laps
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Did you struggle in the slow turns (T5, 11, 12 & 13)?
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The car was stable enough, hitting apex’s is more difficult than it used to be, but that’s more likely a skill issue tbh. I’m 48 now so reflexes ain’t what they used to be
Okay, so I’m on a controller and sure, I feel the understeer coming from games like PCARS2 and Assetto Corsa, which I both love to death purely from a physics standpoint before anything else.
The understeer on pad in Forza I believe has been baked in on purpose to make driving easier for newcomers. Sucks, I know, but it is what it is. You can try braking earlier and slowing down more before entering a corner. Also, steer only as much as you need to rather than jamming the stick all the way left or right. Let off the brake completely before corner entry and get ready to get back on the throttle around the apex otherwise you’ll keep understeering.
Also, tuning can help dial out the understeer a little bit.
No worries. I was just asking to see in which aspects you felt the car wasn’t reacting properly. In that tune caster seems too high for my liking (I haven’t tried the tune though). Camber will be really high in slow(ish) speed corners which can cause severe understeer.
Thank the lord you’ve had the same issue as me, I’ve been experiencing it since the last update… my controller stops vibrating in any low speed tight corner, I have to wait until I’m almost around the corner to accelerate or come to a stop nearly and go again. I was hoping it was a bug and not a controller issue if anyone knows? I’ve reported it 4 times now & had no response from turn 10 no shock
It is also the same corners on every track, kyalami is pretty much unplayable for me atm with all the low speed long corners, controller feels like it cuts out 3 times a lap
I tested the tune on Lime Rock Full Circuit track with 12 PM / Clear settings.
First I tried a completely stock car (I had to buy this car for the test and no upgrades were available due to level 1 so I thought why not). For second test car was leveled up enough so I upgraded to race suspension but didn’t tune it at all. The third test was done with your tune.
With each setup I drove 10 laps with full tank and tyre wear off.
Test 1: (car completely stock, PI 657)
Best lap: 56.217
Test 2: (with race suspension, PI 661)
Best lap: 55.824
Test 3: (with race suspension & tune, PI 661)
Best lap: 56.170
I think the car was easiest to drive with your tune but it didn’t help with my lap times on this particular track. Maybe it’s just me.
One thing I noticed though is how hilariously slow I am with some AWD cars like Audi TT RS on this track in A class. I think my best ever A700 TT RS time here is 55.9 and it took a lot of laps.
Now I just took a car I’ve never driven before in the game and broke my TT RS time with a 661 PI almost stock car without any tuning. I know that car is capable for more but it seems I can’t get much better time out of it with any kind of tune I try.
Yeah AWD usually isn’t very strong in FM, with a couple exceptions. Even then usually I have to crank the rear ARBs up and drop the front ARBs down quite a bit. I’ve yet to put a lot of time into building a FWD or AWD car.
As with the M3 GTS I’ve been throwing together my own suspension setup, though I’m still working on it. I’ll update this post when I get the settings nailed down
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I’ll have to test again, but I think I ran a 54 something on Limerock with this car. The rear end has a lot more grip with these settings so that gives me more confidence to push the car harder through turns. The default tune makes me feel like I’m babysitting the grip all the time and have far less confidence to push hard through turns. It’s like they’re intended to be a pseudo drift tune. Same issue that FM7 tunes had. It’s like with the default tune the car doesn’t really want to rotate until you hit a bump with the rear wheels and then it does so because it’s become unsettled. With my settings I can easily make the car rotate by just letting off the throttle a bit or tapping the brakes. It behaves as I’d expect a track tuned M3 to behave. It behaves about as good as my actual M3 does like I said.
Point is that T10’s suspension tunes are at fault, not the handling model. Even the stock ones. If the stock tunes were set so that they actually matched what the cars are IRL they’d be a bit better. Instead we have a team that sets these things up based on some made up stuff rather than setting them up as they actually are.
This 911 GT3 RS, for instance, Spring rates look really weird and dampers are way too stiff. I set it up with its actual spring rates and such and it feels a lot closer to what it’s supposed to. Before you say anything, yes I have driven a 991 GT3 RS IRL. I do know what they’re supposed to feel like.
Do you mean with only race suspension and otherwise stock 661 PI car?
I agree. Handling model is in my opinion pretty good, tunes could have been a bit more approachable in their stock form. Oversteery / twitchy base tunes are not very beginner-friendly. Over-/understeer Is not usually a big problem to tune out but if someone who is completely new to FM series just buys a car, upgrades it and goes to multiplayer it may not be pretty to watch.
But if we are talking about steering issues considering my earlier posts, it’s not about tunes or even game physics in my opinion. It’s not even understeer, really. It may be understeer considering driving line going wide but it’s not real understeer due to grip limits or even speed. I can drive multiple cars for days without any issues. Then you pick a wrong car and drive it to wrong turn on a wrong day with a wrong tune and suddenly notice the steering has left the chat. Multiple times if the first one didn’t scare you enough. It’s subtle, but you know when it happens. Driving the M3 GTS problem was non-existent, for me at least.
Any ideas where I could find real life suspension values for that car? Mostly spring rates but some ARB values would be helpful too. It would be interesting to see how the car feels in the game. I have driven 911 but never GT/RS models.
Not gonna find ARB values. Just approximations. The ARB tuning in Forza doesn’t even remotely resemble what IRL is. The settings in game seem to get pretty close to what I found online ( soft front, mid stiff to stiff rear ). I found the rest on Rennlist tho. Jus look up 991 GT3 RS alignment specs and such. The spring rates are widely known. 100n/mm front and 160n/mm rear ( 571lbs/in - 913.6lbs/in ). Damper settings are troublesome to find so I just did my best to get close.
The thing here is that I’m not noticing the steering issues as much when I input actual true to life values into the tuning. At least with the BMWs and Porsches I’ve tested so far that is. So I’m thinking it’s less of an issue with the steering angle and more to do with how T10 tunes these suspensions. Is the reason I’ve kinda derailed this entire thing.
Surprisingly stiff rear suspension. I would have thought a bit lower value…
Anti-roll bar values are difficult and they wouldn’t be comparable to game values anyway but it would be interesting to know how soft / stiff they are when comparing front / rear suspension of the car.
I think I personally haven’t seen that issue happen on BMW or Porsche a single time in the game (if I remember correctly) and I’ve driven both quite a lot, stock and tuned. Others mileage may vary.
Tunes of course affect how cars handle corner entry, mid corner and so on but what happens with the steering is something else.
If you want to see some steering weirdness in action, for example choose stock Audi TT RS and go drive left hand donuts on grass. If you do it right the steering goes wild. I am not sure, but my suspicion is that this exact same thing happens sometimes when cornering.
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I’ve been testing tonight in practice, I’ve changed from manual with clutch back to manual & it seems to have solved the problem for me, something must be going on with mwc
I rarely experience cars with too much understeer, with a wheel, oversteer is common without upgraded suspension.
Controller is limited to the traction of the car. Tunes are realistic enough for Forza.
Are people complaining about understeer using “normal” steering?
Most people are using a controller.
You’re 100% right. Without a race suspension you will get oversteer and not understeer. The center of gravity of the car will be fairly high since you have no control over it and the springs will also be too soft (like in real life), which will give the car a ton of roll under cornering load. This will cause a “lag” sensation that feels like you’re exiting the corner and the front is straightening out but the rear is still rolling with a bit of delay.
So after a bunch of rivals laps and testing n’ tuning, I think I’ve settled on a setup.
I’ve also went and threw on a roll cage, adjustable anti-roll bars, and a race differential. Other than those upgrades and the race suspension, the car is stock.
PI is A660, weight is 3,415 lbs 52F/48R, 444 hp, 0.130 hp/lb.
Tire Pressure
35.0 PSI front and rear
Camber
-2.1 front
-1.5 rear
Toe
0.1 front
-0.2 rear
Caster
5.0 degrees
Anti-Roll Bars
9.00 front
22.00 rear
(I usually slam the settings to the min/max to zero out the values)
Spring Rates
915.0 lb/in front
800.0 lb/in rear
(As close as you can get)
Ride Height
4.4 inches front and rear
BUMP Damping
3.6 front
3.5 rear
REBOUND Damping
8.8 front
8.4 rear
Suspension Geometry
Zero everything out
Aero
79 lb front (max)
130 lb rear
Brake Balance
43%
(Set brake pressure to personal preference, I have mine at 200%)
Differential
70% Accel
20% Decel
I also tried the tuning setup mentioned in this post first,
around Mid-Ohio Short and I managed to do 1:17.540 (I hug the inside of turn 1 pretty hard into the pit exit lane… Blame how they made track limits lol). Afterwards I installed the other upgrades, spent a while doing my own setup, aaanndd turns out the way I normally tune wasn’t as good as I thought it was. I was able to keep up, but only just. I was able to set times within a tenth of the first setup I tried, but no faster. Bummer!
After thinking long and hard, and reading the other understeer discussions, I think the problem was how I was tuning my dampers. Think the values I listed above, but like +1.0 all around. After softening them all a bit I think it’s more manageable, though I think I’m still going to adjust my dampers with a lot more care and thought after all of this… I’ve been tuning for close to 4-5 years now, and I know for a fact I still have to put some more thought into the process.
I was able to drop the Mid-Ohio Short lap time down to 1:17.419 on the first flying lap, .121 faster. Doesn’t sound like a lot but it’s likely got more to give, and it’s definitely much better to drive than my own initial setup. But like I’ve said, I have some more tinkering to do 
EDIT: Also playing on a controller, normal steering, ABS/TCS/STM off, lap times set on “manual” shifting
From my testing with a controller I found running sim steering and turning the self steering assist to 0 allowed more steering angle and less straightening of the wheels.
Yes some of the default tunes compound the issue but changing from normal to sim steering made a bigger difference than tuning.
I usually run a wheel and the odd understeer issues I experience with the wheel are not so much steering angle limited like with a controller but seem to be the inconsistent tyre heat. Some of that potentially comes from over rotating the wheels in a turn which is almost impossible on a controller…
And I thought it was just me… Glad to hear other people are experiencing this. Turn in seems to be “OK” and then about mid corner I just drift out as if the car is releasing steering angle for no reason. Typically have to lift throttle right after turn in or dab the brakes even though my speed should be fine for the corner. I feel like the previous motorsport 7 had this issue too.
I play on a lot of other sim racers that do not seem to have this issue. Might be something with that corner, but more than likely it’s the way the physics are set up in the game. When I switch between other games and Forza I always have to remind myself that I will not have as much turn in steering angle, and the car will be more towards understeer. Even with tuning it doesn’t feel like it grips at first turn in properly, and then continues to struggle mid-corner.
It just shouldn’t be such a battle to turn thru sweeping corners. If your speed is right and your apex is properly hit, a race car should flow through the corner. I always feel with the Forza games it’s a constant battle with lifting and applying throttle while fiddling with the steering angle. I do feel like this game it’s a little better than previous ones, but I still shouldn’t need that much input once I’ve gotten myself to turn in headed towards the Apex.
In my opinion controller steering isn’t exactly one of FM series strenghts. I drove GT series for almost 2 decades and I think I never thought the steering feels weird. Physics changed a bit over the years and so did my tuning / driving skills but the steering was always consistent. I just always knew how steering will react in the speed range I was entering the corner. I think it’s because steering didn’t try to be overly clever in GT games. It worked linearly and had manual setting for steering sensitivity/speed. That’s about it.