I got within 1/2 a second of SatNite on one of the Road America ribbons recently.
If driving a metallic green Fiat 131 like I stole it constitutes cheating/hacking now, I guess I’m guilty. Strange, as I have never been banned or even warned about such behaviours 
I don’t know why, but this thread, and some of the comments made in it, have been irking me. I had a meeting that fell through today so I had some time to kill. Its ridiculously hot outside (in Philly) today, so I decided to do a little experiment in the AC with Forza. I picked a track that I know I need work on, I didn’t run one of the tracks that I’m fastest on. I used Nurburgring GP in D class. I went to Free Play and chose 10 laps, 15 drivatars on unbeatable level, and collisions were default.
I wanted to see a couple of different things. First, I wanted to see what the Drivatars drove. It was a mixture of cars. I don’t remember them all, but the second place Drivatar drove a Citroen. There was also an Impala (moronic choice for that track), a Jeep, a newer Mini (09 I think), and a Dodge Dart that I remember. I looked at the leaderboards for that track and 92 out of the top 100 times are run with a 65 Mini. I find it rather odd that not one of the “unbeatable” drivatars drove a 65 Mini.
Then I wanted to make a note of how fast they were. Keep in mind, I am mediocre on this track at best. Well, I drove my Mini, of course, and lapped all but one Drivatar. He barely beat me across the finish line at the end of my 10th lap (his 9th). My first lap, from a dead start with cold tires, was a 2:27.xxx (sorry, didn’t write it down). My best lap was a 2:21.167 (I beat my personal best by a little under a tenth, so at least I got something out of this). I’d say my average time for laps 2 through 10 was right around 2:22ish. I wanted it to be a good judge of things so I made sure to run clean laps and didn’t cut any corners at all. 7 of my laps were clean, all of my dirty laps were from drafting. To put it in its proper perspective, Zermatt is atop that leaderboard with a 2:18.682, so he’s a whole lot faster than me. The second place drivatar’s best lap was 2:33.697 and that was in the Citroen. The best individual lap run by a drivatar was a 2:31.206 and that was done in a Dodge Dart. That lap would have only been good for #1,423 on the leaderboard (and the game calls them unbeatable???). If I hadn’t been in the race, the Citroen would have won the race with a best lap that is good enough to get #2,503 on the leaderboard.
This thread was about finding the fastest cars. Aside from the cheating comments, we were given that pearl of wisdom that stated to just drive what the fastest drivatars do. Well, you run this track in a Citroen or Dart and you have zero chance against the Mini with a decent driver behind the wheel. Not even close… I’m sure I’ll get accused of cheating from the OP, but there are plenty here that know me and can confirm that I don’t cheat.
This is all nothing new to most of you, but I just figured I’d throw some actual facts into the thread in case some newbie comes along and thinks the idea of driving what the fastest Drivatars do is the best way to pick the fastest car.
Lou this whole topic is quite simple.
Those who are in the top 0.1% know what it has taken to get there. There will be some similarities in their paths to that level and some differences - and some things lacking from their paths as well.
Anyone wanting to replicate that just need to ask questions and to varying degress drop their ego.
In the FM4 forums there used to be threads “I am running perfect laps yet I am x seconds off time y.” I don’t understand. They just needed to accept their lap was not perfect and then ask people who are running better laps.
Lou sound familiar lol
I have a friend who often says to me “I am getting the most out of this car so I am not going to keep running laps.” I watch their replay and they are 2 car widths towards the middle of the track. They are nowhere near rumble strips, white lines, apexes etc
Most in this thread know what it takes and have had varying degrees of success putting those legit steps together to improve their times and identify what the quick cars are.
Yes, it does sound familiar… Trust me, I get it in terms of the paths and the egos. Because of all the help I got from this forum, that’s probably why this thread has irked me as much as it has. Of course, as is always the case, I’ve been an angel and haven’t provoked anyone in the slightest with my commentary 
You’ve got some really good people here that are willing to help you in all kinds of ways. Just dismissing the fastest ones as cheaters really rubbed me the wrong way. When Swerve (and all the others too, there’s too many to list) was throwing all kinds of advice my way about 6 months ago, If I just dismissed him as a cheater, I wouldn’t even be able to crack the top 5,000 on any track right now. What amazes me is that most of the “unbeatable” drivatars can’t crack the top 5,000 either… They seriously need to change the name of that level. Unbeatable is just wrong…
Agreed!!! I’m no where on level with most of the drivers that offered suggestions- But in career or free play I massacre the Unbeatable drivatars… By laps most of the time, if I’m in a good car/build tune.
At OP:
race with/ talk to (not accuse)/ ask questions/ of good drivers and practice. Just like in life if you want to be good at anything - you learn and you practice and comparing your self to the mediocre will only yield yourself as being mediocre at best.
There are a number of guys in here that are consistently top 100 top 50 and top 10… listen or go and battle the drivatars in what ever car they drive… but alienating the people that can help you probably not the best tactic you could employ while trying to get better.
Real life: If you are good in your job there a few people who are jealous about it and just hate you, virtual for example fm5 if you are good on it a lot of people will be jealous and hate you and will call you as a cheater. Whats wrong with the huminity??? Why cant people accept it that their actually not on that level? Rome wasnt build in one day, your perfect lap wasnt set in one day, practice is all, real life exactly the same… if anyone need tips i am here. Good bye and have a nice day!
I certainly know how much time went into that USF2000 at Road Atlanta Club lol
And thanks for your advice SCH1WO. One of these days I will go back there and hopefully regain a little ground.
Oh yes its not easy to stay with a great accel around the corners especially the corner uphill. No problem mate. Wish you good luck.
the tune is more important than the car in most cases to me. and the best circut tunes are not the best hotlap tune. hotlapping is a matter of keeping up momentum, staying on line, exiting each turn to set your self up to make the next turn etc…its memory and no suprises. racing is being the fastest when deprived of you best line, and dealing with suprises like getting cut off/blocked, rammed, etc… .
get the car you are the best with, put a good tune on it for the track you are racing, and go race. no single tune will win on every track, the same car/tune that wins prauge for me is last at top gear and vice versa. lemans requires a different tune than a track with a lot of turns.
I used to think circuit and hotlap tunes were different but they aren’t. The best hotlap tunes will also be the best lobby tunes.
I respectfully disagree… IMO, the tune does play a role, but its the build that matters far more than anything else. I very frequently will use the same car on every track and keep the tune the same, or very close to the same, on all of them. I change the build dramatically on a track by track basis though. I use the exact same build/tune on Prague and Top Gear (well, the full version of it, the loop is a very different build). Lemans is a different animal all together and does require a different car if you’re serious. For example, I will drive a drag tire Mini in D class on Lemans most of the time in lobbies. I do ok with it, but I do that for fun only. If I am serious about winning, or setting a LB time, nothing competes with the 70 Camaro. For me personally, the 70 Camaro is completely worthless on any other track though.
Shameless plug time… If anyone is looking for a Camaro for Lemans, I’ve got a very good one on the sharefront.
The tune question is different for different people and maybe different classes.
BryceMW and umadbroyolo use track specific tunes on the E21 Lotus in X class. With cars with build options the build is definitely critical - its just some people do use track specific tunes and others don’t. I am aware of people using both methods to top ten leaderboards.
Well, since I know next to nothing about the higher classes, I can only comment on the lower classes. Once you get a car tuned correctly, you can keep that tune almost exactly the same for every track and not notice a major difference. The build is not the same though. As I usually do, I’ll use the Mini as an example. I have 9 different builds for that car in D class. I have at least a top 50 time with every one of the builds too. The tune may have very minor changes to it for a specific track, but those changes make little difference. Putting drag tires on a Mini and upping the HP to 158 works exceptionally well for Road America, but is dreadful for Bugatti. Keep that tune exactly the same, but change the build to race tires with 133 HP and that same Mini is now a top ten car (with the right driver, I can’t get quite that high) on Bugatti. It will be 3 seconds slower at Road America though. Neither of those build/tune combos are best for the Ring+GP though. I think most players are just content to switch to different cars for different tracks, but I like to play around with the builds and use the same car for as many tracks as possible. Its been working exceptionally well for me… I’ve done the same, only with far less LB success, with the Honda Civic, Mugen, Acura Integra, Lotus Elan (build changes greatly effect this car’s performance, probably even more than the Mini), Kia Ceed, Chevy Nova, VW Beetle, 71 Skyline, and Buick Regal. I know that others do it with many other cars too that I failed to mention. I haven’t really tried different builds with anything above B class though as I don’t go up there often.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but changing the build on the E21 isn’t an option at all???
That is correct but the differences in the tunes are not minimal and to describe what the differences are trying to achieve is to take different corner types as fast as possible.
The mini in D is definitely very different.
For cars where different builds are possible I might use the same build at Alps as some other tracks but the Alps tune needs better high speed turning. It would have a tendency towards oversteer when used on other tracks.
There are some top tunes on the sharefront that are "all round or multiple track top 30 tunes) for example and there are others that are track specific. The descriptions often explain that.
I think the best way to summarise it is different people treat the tune part of the equation slightly differently but the build / car choice and driver skill are usually not debated as being to top 2 factors.
Oh and cheating
Well, I did start off by saying that the tune plays a role. I don’t deny that. I imagine in the higher classes it plays a larger role. Don’t get me wrong, you can improve your times by several tenths of a second by just changing the tune with many of the cars I listed. However, you can improve your times by several full seconds by adjusting their builds. You guys in the higher classes are running cars that are far more evenly matched. In the lower classes, you can build a car that is crazy powerful but a lot harder to drive. As long as you have the ability to drive it well (like Chronic and EMW Raul do), you’ll set yourself apart in a huge way from the rest of the field. Sadly, I do not have their ability…
EMW Raul - I don’t want to hear than name again lol, or look at the rear bumper of his XB Falcon (well at least I could see it on lap 1).
Don’t be like that. Use him as motivation. I know you’re good, but that’s how you’ll get better… Each time you race him, you just want to close the gap a little bit. Eventually, those little bits add up. That’s how I caught most of the guys that I did. The Ghosts of Simmo and 3X are starting to make me wonder about this whole cheating thing though, cause that gap never closes any when I try to catch them
Seriously, I don’t even try to catch guys like Raul, Chronic or TPR Lou. They drive cars that I can’t drive and they are just ridiculously fast. All it does is frustrate me. At least Simmo and those guys drive the same cars and I can actually judge what I’m doing right or wrong, but I still don’t catch them 
I’ve never been in a lobby with Raul, I just see his times and I shake my head as it reminds me of how much I still have to learn.
That was how I was able to finally get over that hump on the Cat School thing I was talking about earlier. I set Sabu (FRS SaBuCo) as a rival. Can’t set Jose because he blocks his laps. I saw Sabu’s line and noticed he was setting up a turn better by being more outside than I was. I shifted outside for that turn and boom, 48.3 and #377.
With rivals, I’ve found it’s best to get somebody about 2-3 seconds ahead of you. Too close and the ghost is distracting. More than that and you cannot see what they are doing.
Lou, you are actually my default rival on a lot of tracks. It works pretty well for B and much of C class. I shudder to think about D Class, though. I haven’t done D Class in ages and you’ve turned D into your personal playground.
AX
Good for you, don’t settle for #377 though, keep going…
I’m actually honored to hear that I am your default Rival. You could pick much better, that’s for certain. D class is just where I somewhat found my niche. Though there are still a lot of people much faster than me there, its the only class I would consider myself fast in. In C, I’m only probably somewhere between slightly above average and moderately fast. B class I drop off substantially and I might be considered average at best. A class, I’m certainly well below average. S class, I suck. R class, I’m terrible. P, I’m horrendous. X, well, I can’t think of an adjective to describe just how bad I am at that class…
What I said above about the little bits is totally true though. I’m persistent and will chase the same ghost for an hour just to close the gap by a lousy tenth. I just stay at it (usually until my arthritis tells me that I must stop) and keep picking away. I just don’t have enough hours in the day to apply to the other classes, and I really like D, so that’s my home. I actually don’t really hotlap much anymore. Lately, I just like to annoy as many people as possible by driving my Mini in the lobbies Every so often, there will be some good racing and I set a new PB or two, so that’s taken the place of hotlapping for me.
Try racing your own ghost a lot more instead of me though. It really allows you to see the mistakes you make and where you can pick up time at. If you ever go back to D, let me know and I’ll set you up with some open source builds/tunes. That way you can alter them to your own driving style. Yes, I do have tunes for cars other than the Mini too
With C Class as my rival, it depends on the track. Some of them we are close. Others, you are way ahead. There was actually another guy not as good as you who used to be 4-5 seconds ahead of me but now we are generally even or I’ve beaten him.
My focus now is practicing for the Bounty Hunter. Unlike the others, I have a realistic chance with this one (which is all I’ve ever asked for from these challenges). I’ve beaten Johnni’s time in the '74 Celica but have come up short so far in practice with the muscle cars. I’ve tried a couple of tunes in both the Nova 396 and the Judge and so far have been stuck in the 2:29 range.
I’ll get back to work on D at some point. Maybe after Bounty Hunter. I hear what you are saying about chasing my own ghost. I’m a little scared to do that. I just imagine watching it and thinking “Man, I stink!”
AX