I have been quiet for far to long. (4/11/2016 update)

Forza Motorsport Legacy Motorsport
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Hello T10, it’s me karma. Have you noticed lately that you have been falling apart since FM4? Wonder why? Could it be because you have over worked yourself with {edit: yearly (T10 has thier hands in FH as well)} b̷i̷-̷a̷n̷n̷u̷a̷l̷ launches, or payed little attention to the outcries of the few MAJOR issues. It seems like since you started Forza Horizon cough NFS: Open-world cough you have lost touch. You have lost touch with your community and spirit of racing. Lets get to the point shall we.

I have played all of the franchise since FM, I pretty much grew up with it. After FH and FM5 there has been a looming degradation of quality over quantity. Now this is not quality of graphics, more of a quality of game play and functionality. In the past few days I have been disconnected, crashed, and all around disappointed. After the November DLC, which would have been just that more interesting if a certain metal time machine was added, allowing for upgrades and such. No, we got another Ayrton Senna car in X class that will most likely be used in leader board racing/hopper destroying unpleasantries. This has made me waver in interest towards new entrants to the series. Since the November patch I can not race more than 2 races without a race disconnecting right at the start, and recently crashed when going to a track. My most resent unpleasant trip to online had me join on launch of a race; destroying what connections may have been good; restart search, disconnect on race start, finally race once with half the field sitting still; would have been great if I recorded having my car slide into stationary vehicles; and finally crash soon after. Lets also mention that I was stuck in one car the entire time unable to move select any of the options, only view the cast of racers that are going to sit still. Not to their fault.

Did not want to make yet another thread that will get locked minutes later.

Now 5 months down the road, nothing positive has changed (4/11/2016). Still playing this crashfest of a game, ( before anyone says report them, I and an entire 14 man lobby tried. They go to another account and continue. Seriously MS? use that IP ban.) there is nothing anyone can do to better such a pathetic excuse for a simulation racer for beginners. Turn 10 and in extension Microsoft don’t care about the people that enjoy the game for what it is meant. They only care about their wallets being filled by the next generation of humans that are blinded by their lust for the next big thing. Sadly, nothing will change. Like Newton’s First law (copy paste from: http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/history/newton3laws.html )

I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

Now lets see here, with Micro$oft elbow deep, a community in a deplorable state, and more and more people turning to games like R factor and (Project Cars does not belong in this list for worse reasons) Asseto Corsa, heck even GTA V, the Forza franchise is about to fall to last place. What once a franchise that was Project Gotham Racing’s console competitor, has hit the grass and losing control near spectators. It would be nice to hear from people that matter, not figure heads, that could alert me to better understand such disregard to the foundation that once held up such high standards before.

I don’t expect to see much for this, but hey who knows. I however want to praise what hard work put into such work as FM4. FM1 introduced Drivatars and racing against your own cars (Yes all the tunes and upgrades), something to add in to Forza Motorsport: Perfect. FM2 3 and 4 brought the diverse selection of amazing cars, that sadly start to fade away, ranging from one offs like Gumpert and Weizmann (sorry, can’t think of every model in those games) to well renowned Porsche, sadly owned by some monopolizing company, and Shelby; rest his soul. They also brought more realistic and some fictional, yet realistic, memorable tracks. New York/Maple Valley? Long Beach is apparently going to be extinct.

I have said my piece. I have made this opinion reading through relative threads, this being my own. Let the maelstrom cometh.

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Well said

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unfortunately we are powerless in this regard. It’s their right to make the game how they want. If they valued our opinions or took them seriously then things that have been asked for multiple times would have been in FM6 but they aren’t. Unless they face real competition which at this point there is none, it won’t change. I try to enjoy what they have given us.

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Same here. I try to enjoy what is available. If we are powerless, how did we call out Project Cars? Yea Forza is the ONLY Xbox racing game. How about Gran Tourismo 6~? Again might see similar problems.

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I’m inclined to disagree with the assessment that pCars isn’t a viable contender. As a wheel user (and that could be the overwhelming difference), I find the physics to be much more lifelike (viewing the handling characteristics/weight transfer of the vehicles leads me to believe it’s more the physics model than placebo). Yes there are connection issues with pCars, but you are also dealing with a peer to peer network versus a network of dedicated servers. Then again, given the recent issues with multiplayer connectivity, it seems that FM6 and pCars find themselves on a similar tier reliability-wise. Dynamic time of day and programmable weather effects? Yes please. And, personally, I couldn’t care less that the puddles aren’t 100% accurate and measured and blah, blah, so on and so forth. From an enjoyment standpoint, it’s irrelevant. And you can’t exactly preach authenticity when the depth of a puddle isn’t affected by an entire field of cars storming through it. I’m sorry, but that’s pretty far removed from reality. To stay on/in the puddles, while Turn 10 hasn’t addressed AI performance in the wet, pCars has. Oh, and need I mention that pCars gives you the (or any) option when pitting as to whether you want to switch to rain tires or stay on slicks.

And, I will concede that the car selection is thin and the track list (while extensive) is somewhat lacking, when you consider the “10 liveries on the same car = 10 cars” formula utilized by Turn 10, pCars (using Turn 10’s criteria) has over 1200 cars! I’d also like to add (for those interested in, gasp, racing) that the most recent pCars update included Balance of Performance adjustments to ensure the GT3 cars stay appropriately matched to their real life counterparts.

I realize this post makes me sound anti-Forza and more like a pCars fanboy, but I’ve actually been a dedicated Forza fan. I’m just more a fan of quality racing over superfluous features that cater to the lowest common denominators (aka bashers) in public lobbies. If Turn 10 had listened to it’s core users, the multiplayer features in Forza 6 would be much closer to the options in pCars. As it stands, with each iteration Turn 10 moves further from what the hardcore crowd wants.

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Everything you’ve said here is spot on. I can only look on and laugh now Forza is having as many problems as PCars had yet not nearly as fiercely criticised. I hope SMS don’t go for bigger in PCars 2, just go for better. Make it work better. Not for me, cos I think it’s amazing anyhow. I think T10 are grossly wrong in their aims. I honestly think the vast vast majority of people that play Forza are after a sim experience. That’s what they want. Maybe not every little detail, but for the most part. T10 have misjudged. i expect MUCH bigger things from PCars 2 than Forza 7.

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I have had the distinct fear that since the launch of FH franchise, that it “will merge” with the Forza franchise and become a simple car sudo racing game designed for the non-racing fan. You can see the closeness of the two franchise becoming ever more present.

I could see it more in FH2 and the close links to FM’s community. Making our ‘pics’ and ‘replays’ interlinked and less linked with previous FM iterations. We can share our images from FM5, but we have no option to share our pics etc from FM2-4, but our ability to interconnect with FH1-2 etc is right up there and growing.

I personally fear there will be a distinct merging of both franchises come release of the next iteration of FM… When that happens, the game has lost yet another dedicated player since start of the franchise. That’s a 10 yr player gone…

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Most of you guys obviously haven’t played PCars for a while, after the latest patch, it’s the “ONLY” racing game on the Xbox worth playing Imo.

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Has the crashing to dashboard when loading a race been fixed for the xbox yet? I had that problem and couldn’t play the game because of it. I might pick it up again if that is sorted. That being said I am enjoying Forza 6 and looking forward to Assetto Corsa.

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Overall Pcars is in a much better condition. Patch 6.0 is coming out soon and SMS has been improving it on a monthly basis. Crash to the dashboard seems to have been fixed to the vast majority of players…The sound issue still needs work as it requires a new sdk from Microsoft which will optmise the use of the 7th core made available for Devs about a year ago, but people testing the new dashboard have reported improved performance already. I think the online portion of the game is what needs some serious work, specially if you coming from Forza and its dedicated servers.

Forza is a good game. I think people have to get their expectations sorted out though. Forza is NOT a sim. I play Forza when I need a quick racing fix, short races nothing much to think about, just relax and have fun…Try to enjoy the game for what it is, not what you wanted it to be.

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Pretty much my stance too.

It’s the best I can get so I try to find my own enjoyment and avoid the bits that are frustrating.

The community here helps a lot with mitigating the frustrations though, but it just boggles the mind that T10 are so aloof from the community.

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FALSE!

Speak to them with your wallet as many others have done and are currently doing so. If you’re disappointed with the games and the way the developers are moving, don’t buy it. I know you have Forza 6 now but if this is the last straw for you do not buy the next one.

If they have not already, they will eventually notice the drastic decline in sales and attempt to make actual, suggested changes instead of silly sales gimmicks or go out of business. That is simply the way.

We are not powerless in the matter. We hold quite a bit of power as a community. If Turn 10 wants to remain in business they need to make changes. If they continue on the path they are on, sales will decline to the point where it will no longer be feasible to operate and the stdio will close its doors.

Personally - I have liked the Horizon spin-off and see no reason not to support Playground Games in their 3rd endeavor should it arise but I will no longer be supporting Turn 10 if significant changes don’t come about in Forza Motorsport 6 or 7. I will not pre-order 7, I will not buy 7 until I’ve had a chance to rent it (Redbox) or borrow it from a friend - if that can’t happen I will not buy it. In this regard, I have all the power.

Let’s say I really hated FM6, what can Turn 10 do to me if I don’t by this game (or FM7) - nothing. I would also have more time for other things I enjoy, less stress, less worry, and more time for games that are fun, enjoyable, and relaxing as they should be.

For now, FM6 single player is fun. I haven’t finished career yet, some of the showcases are fun, and I do enjoy tuning cars and racing with friends in private lobbies. When it comes time for the real fun, I switch over to FM4 for local play with my friends at home. You wonder why Microsoft was focusing on first party titles and popular titles for BC and didn’t include any Forza titles when they very, very easily could have? Another failed attempt to generate sales for FM6 for a failing studio. If FM2, FM3, or FM4 were on BC would anyone feel the need to buy FM6? Would people continue to play FM6? Turn 10 fears that the answer to those questions is no and therefore Forza is not up for BC yet, if it ever will be while T10 is around.

This part here is true, and look where it got them? A sales drop of over 4 million copies and still they know best.

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That’s assuming the dedicated, motorsports-oriented fanbase outweighs the casual “non-racing” fan, which it doesn’t. Personally I think the turning point was the release of Forza Horizon, both that and Horizon 2 did rather well as not only were they fun driving games, they simply appealed to the casual gamer more than a “serious” racing title would. Turn 10 has every right to implement features that will help them generate more sales, and while us “purists” may not agree with all of their design choices, things like adding a Limo, Rewinds, Mod Packs etc. most likely result in more sales than Qualifying, advanced AI etc…

Even if every person who visits these forums “voted with their wallet”, we’d hardly make a dent in their sales. There’s only a few hundred of us here at most. Although Forza Motorsport 6 doesn’t have everything that would make it the perfect racing game for me, their design brief is not “make the absolute best game for PJ Tierney”, it’s “make a good product that reaches as many people as possible”. In my opinion they’ve done well enough in that regard, while also being a good enough game for people like me to still invest hundreds of hours.

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Yes this is the problem. T10 has completely focus on the causal market. The same customer that likes short, action pack, and carnage type races.
I think the core game(Fm6) is the best of the series. But what made fm so great was how many diffrent ways to play this game. Its was " the best car game" for so many diffrent types of people. They either eliminated or completely watered down every way to the point there really isnt nothing to do on this game.

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Go ahead and support Playground Games. I played both FHs and felt that there was too much arcade, it did not have the forza feel as I expected, oh well. Maybe Playground Games will inherit the franchise and take it to another area, extra consoles? :3 In regards to Project Cars; I have bought into the hype and have a copy. When I got it I was in a forza mindset with a controller and started right into the campaign. 125cc carts I believe they were… holy **** was I in a world of hurt. Since their dirty financial moves I am afraid of returning.

I would like a racing game that allows some means of customization like paint and aftermarket, but be near enough of a sim that, if ever I race in real life, can hop in and perform nearly the same actions. Fear excluded. It sounds like I expect perfection, but perfection never happens. Thank you to all that have read and did not just go on a rage filled gibberish spree. Good luck to all that race clean, and may your times be quick.

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Preach

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[Mod Edit - Abbreviated profanity, profanity and profanity that is disguised but still alludes to the words are not permitted - D]

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^^^ +1
I too have enjoyed Forza for the last 6 years, however since PCARS it’s taken a back seat for now.
The choice of race length with qualifying and practice is a real plus for me, but the most important plus is that every race is exciting!
I can finish mid pack and still feel the satisfaction of pushing the car, and myself to the limit.
The game breaking bugs are sorted for me, and although not perfect, it’s improved with every patch. Once you have the correct controller settings the game plays superbly imo.
I played FM5 for a couple of hours yesterday, and it just felt a bit soulless.

I will be getting FM6 soon, and intend on playing for quite a while, however, I’m not sure if it will eat as many of my hrs as previous additions. To be honest the photo mode is the main reason why I really crave it at the moment.

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It seems somehow Turn10 don’t care about the community, having gametester which playing for normally jump-and-run-games and having no experience with racing-games, making a 10 years title which looks like the one before, talking about laser-scan-technologies for tracks that it isn’t that good yet (maybe to much data they can handle), having a forum with a so called “wishlist” to make the community believe someone will read it…

nearly 110 euros for this game i payed, and i did the last time. thats way too much for just driving rivals. because career mode sucks (2 lap races, thats bulls"$t), hopperlobbies only can be driven in ghostmode (wow, what an experience to drive alone and just having sightblocking cars in corners).

sending tunes to friends → not available
clubs → not available
usercreated lobbies → not available
onlinefun → not available

10 years forza, and still not a million playing it…hmm, compared to forza4 which still playing more then twice as much as fm6…well if you don’t see something goes wrong Turn10 then nobody can help you

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You may be better off checking reviews and looking at feedback on various forums before purchasing your T10 games. And it is not a bi-annual release - FM comes out once every two years, so does Horizon which is a PG game, not T10.

Enjoy the game - it has plenty to do, and they’ve improved things with updates. As for consoles, everything else is just pale in comparison. F6 rules them all. Yes, I’d like to see things returning from FM4 and 5, but I’m happy with how they’ve improved 6 and will likely continue to do so.