Adaptive difficulty was where if you kept winning it got harder. If you kept losing it got easier
Similar to the occasional reminder we get here " hey you have been winning a lot do you want to up the difficulty".
From memory it gave you no choice.
Eh, just forget it ā¦
Ok - donāt recall that being discussed in Forza terms but may have missed it. Have heard of that type of thing in other games - fpsās where you fail a level so many times becoming easier as the game behind the scenes adjusts things - that sort of thing.
Aqua - your posts just appeared as a bit of a thread bomb interspersed with other posts. So apologies if anyone reading this finds this thread even more confusing than it was already.
I will try and address the posts you have quoted me on;
You - Not in FH4 you didnāt. Unbeatable was easy in FH4 I drove it every day using S2 cars.
Me - Literally your first post in this thread says unbeatable should be unbeatable. Now they are challenging you - it seems to be a problem.
You - The game is supposed to chose matching cars for the choice of car that you pick, you should always be able to win with a good tune. I think you should already know that.
Me - The game will pick from an array of similar cars but not necessarily builds for those cars - you have not always been able to win with a good tune. This has always been dependant on having the right build (&tune) for the track but build is probably more important and some cars will always turn out to be meta. Always have and always will.
You - We donāt know that they are programmed that way
Me - This is the only thing I genuinely agree on and actually makes a lot of this discussion utterly pointless and speculation
You - I brought up walls obviously because the Ai donāt hit walls, and the Goliath doesnāt have walls so it is a fair race. Nobody is testing Goliath for some reason so I can only suspect it is because to beat the Ai you need walls.
Me - The Goliath has no walls whatsoever? Iāve driven it once in career but pretty sure there must be some in there as it utilises bits of other road/ tracks in the game & I see a lot of walls. Plus Iām not sure how you are defining walls but if the only track you consider to not have them, means everything else is suspect. I just donāt know how to argue against that, I mean you may as well just ignore 99% of the game as you wonāt be racing on Goliath for 99% of the rest of it. Utter tosh?
Unbeatable should be unbeatable but using fair racing not bugged racing. There is a difference, they are not challenging me.
Someone mentioned wall riding. Is that even viable anymore? The few times I hit the wall, Iāve actually slowed down quite a bit, as though they actually simulated friction, which is what they should have done in the first place, IMO.
I know the wall collision slowdown is active, because Iāve lightly tapped the walls in online a couple times, and gotten slowed down, which is absolutely infuriating.
Out and Out wallriding probably not but using cars or walls instead of brakes may help at times.
But is not needed to beat unbeatable on the tracks I have tested no matter what others may think or say.
I found an article about Forza AI. The way its written i am surprised we are not always up against the Bone Shaker lol.
Or maybe we are in a deceptive way lol
Itās written carefully to sound good, but really itās just jigsaw Ai pieced together to attempt to look more random. Itās not a bad idea, but itās highly exaggerated.
Aqua i downloaded your Saleen tune.
I like most of it. What about the gears though? Is that deliberate?
I will try a run with it at some point.
It seems to help with acceleration, because the game has another problem where your top end only happens downhill for some reason, and top end is supposed to be based on flat ground. So I have lots of gears to try to compensate for the missing speed on flat ground.
Hi all
I feel like the devs are trolling us with the current ai after many complained about unbeatable ai being too easy in previous games. I tend to agree with the ai being very inconsistent at times, either super easy or incredibly hard. The main grievances i had with ai then were the absurd lines they would take most of the time, the unexpected brake checks on almost straights sections, the almighty divebombs they would constently throw, the fact that their tcs in S2 is very much OP, and also the facts that tire wear is not a thing for them, when your tires barely last a single goliath lap.
In fh5 all that is still the same. Slightly better but still bizarre lines and brake checks sometimes. But now hereās a few things that cheats the player compared to the unbeatable AI:
AI have an INSANE launch. They just rocket away from the start with almost no spin and no TCS power-down, even with rwd cars. They got a much better launch than in previous games. Meanwhile you spin baby spin, no launch control & still no tcs under 50 km/h for whatever reasons
Ai has no problem awd swapping cars. They do not take into accounbt the car you chose to play with, because you want to use this car and not the same meta car awd swapped every time, thereās the toxic multi for this. So for those of you who say that it is okay for the singleplayer experience to be meta, well, thanks for the boring idea.
the wet is unknown to the AI. Tire wear is unknown to the AI (damages in general, as in previous games), but itās not like it couldnāt be implemented by the devsā¦
AI has no problem punting you off the track. If you leave just the slightest ray of light on the inside of the turn, AI divembomb incoming. Every friggin time even if they back off sometimes. Even Senna wouldnāt smile.
The worst is that you start 10th every effing time and it is getting very very upsetting, considering I can set faster lap times than all other ai cars and still not get on the podium within three laps, because of fighting through the field using suboptimal lines while the three in front donāt even fight and just hotlap their artificial brains out of the track
As a keyboard player, this AI feels egregious, all-the-more since I never swap drivetrains. RWD feels so much better than in fh4, but at the same time is so disadvantaged against the AI.
I can still beat unbeatable with the car I want, but not on every track. I am not asking for a win every time, just a more balanced fight.
So how about allowing us to have the possibilty to start higher up the grid if we struggle a lot ? This was a thing in fh3 and it was much appreciated when racing was challenging. How about bringing this back to H5 ? Or rather, why on earth has this feature been discontinued ??!
No confirmation, but my hunch is this is a bad side effect of them tweaking the Drag Races that require a strong launch in order to beat your opponent down the line. It appears the AI have one central system that governs all race types and this is why weāre seeing overpowered launches during every other race event as well?
This really bothers me. The only way to stay competitive is to use AWD swapped cars eventhough RWD is in a much better place in FH5 compared to FH4. Sure, there are fast tunes for RWD, but youāre always at a disadvantage because of less stability and less down force compared to a AWD setup.
This is the whole āAI donāt really exist in the game until they get within a certain distance from the player (or vice versa)ā element I was talking about earlier. Once they hit a certain threshold, they just ram into you and can knock you off the track, or into walls because of their boosted inertia.
Itās just another way to provide artificial difficulty because anything that takes away player choice, control and/or puts them at a disadvantage is how these devs create artificial challenge. Their methods are lazy and uninspired.
Like you, Iām not asking to win every single time. That would be more fake than losing every time given how the AI is programmed. There needs to be a balance, but we are currently not there yet, and I donāt know if we ever will be even with Motorsport 8?
Weāre seeing the extreme end of the spectrum where the AI is literally unbeatable at certain times, but not in a fair, or remotely realistic way compared to other racing games. This is the key issue and why this thread is so long and will continue to get longer as more and more people stick with the game, try and increase the difficulty, only to be met with the most blatantly cheating and ācheapā AI there has been in a racing game in recent memory.
Sometimes the AI goes crazyā¦
Had hard time atm to complete weekly event the CC/Trailcat one. In the Costa Este event best finishpos was #8 (high skilled) the other 2 events finished #1 so was enough to complete it in the end.
But was interested then what is required to beat the ai so was doing some more runs
To finish #1 a 01:57:xxx was needed! Thats #1200 on the rivals leaderboard (with cheaters on top-ranks) and these times are done with best conditions (sun, dry, ā¦) so no prob todo <01:57.xxx there
But the current event looks like this
and most of the time its so dark u can see only drivingline and checkpoint flagsThe Drag Race fix may have broke the launch speed, but I think I have also figured out how another part of the Ai got broken. The new tyre physics are very slippery, and in FH4 on hills your car would skid for ages. So FH5 has reduced gravity slide to also help with the new tyres, else you would skid forever. The reduced gravity had an effect on your car top speed, because top speed only works downhill now, and was more accurate in FH4. Because downhill has reduced gravity, top speed has reduced how fast your car reaches top speed, but has not affected how fast Ai reaches top speed.
So I think that is all the bugs figured out now.
Cant believe this game. So bad. Drivatars are worst ever. Driving exactly the same cars with drivatars in seasonal event and they just vanishd from start. No idea to play this
You may be right, and if soā¦ This once again reinforces the basic question, why the Hell canāt the AI exist in the world at all times ā at least, during races ā and be governed by the same physics the player is? Itās so central to creating a fair and balanced single player, or Co-Op experience that it baffles me. Like Iāve stated, consumer hardware (namely, consoles) is more than powerful enough to accommodate this even if they have to reduce the number of AI in a race from 12 to 9, for example.
I donāt play the Seasonal Championships, or the Trial, because the AI is so broken itās not remotely funā¦ Or challenging in the right way, for that matter. I want to do these races because the core driving mechanics in Forza are fun, and I welcome a fair challenge, but racing the AI in their broken state is the exact opposite of fun and fair in every way.
I understand, these events are for hardcore players who want to continue getting more from the game than just unlocking all the festival races. But as weāve been discussing, whatās happening in the Live Service portion of the game is indicative of larger, systemic problems with the AI that PG and T10, have been ignoring for years. The entire AI system needs to be overhauled to be a fair and truly competitive instead of what we have, now.
I know itās been said previously that the development team are unable to continuously update us on fixes etc, but I think the vast majority of players would like further information on the AI and someone within PG to address this, and if a fix is coming. This way people can stop speculating and start enjoying their races.
My main questions would be:
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What changed between FH4 and FH5?
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We know a lot of FH5 was copied and pasted from FH4, which is clear from same bugs present in both games, so considering the games are basically built from the same foundation, why are the AI so different?
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Are the AI taking into account glitched/cheated times from leaderboards?
4&5. Did the class reshuffle mess the AI up? In doing so, do the AI believe their vehicle is in a lower class (than the player) and in order to match the player, they require additional upgrades, that the player canāt do (hence their better grip, acceleration, speed and cornering)?
- Is the AI programmed universal (1 master code/program for every race type) or programmed separately for each race type? (CC, Dirt, Road, Drag)
At present, and until clarified as not, Iād have to agree with others, they are all grouped into one universal code, hence messing with one type messes up the others.
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Is the AI programmed to see just 1 other vehicle or multiple vehicles when around the player? (I canāt remember the source, but Iāve always believed itās 1, and at times it canāt even register the player, hence it rams you out the way or hits your rear end).
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If it is just 1, why isnāt the player prioritised over other AI?
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Are you going to fix the current AI and when approximately can we expect an ETA?
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Lastly, can this be implemented server side, or will it need a patch/hotfix downloaded and installed before we can see the changes? (Ieā¦ can this be tweaked remotely multiple times to find the right balance, without us waiting on multiple downloads before itās fixed?)
āāāāāāā
I donāt think itās much to ask for someone within PG to come out and speak about this openly. Considering this is the largest topic Iāve ever seen on 1 subject, and on other social media sites, it is obvious there are issues, and the players are looking for answers, and fixes.
Yes the AI are beatable on unbeatable across all classes, Iāve done it, but it takes finding a needle in a haystack (right car and tune) to do so, this makes so many cars obsolete/pointless (even new exclusive cars), which in a game that promotes so many is a shame. Even top 1% tunes are no match for the AI in its present state, this surely wasnāt intended.
Challenges are fun when they are on an even footing (not cheating), but losing to AI that are 5 to 10 seconds faster (at times) than the best legit score on a leaderboard isnāt fun.
Not sure if the AI is the real problemā¦
Created Blueprints from CC event and changed only weather and fixed it to 1 car. Was then driving slower so drivatars in front can do their raceā¦
High Skilled
Here 2nd hit the 1st at finishline thats why its ~1sec more
It was always ~02:00 (no idea how its calculated) and somehow every weather was āsameāā¦ was more sliding in the weekly event with the weather creation there.
This might be a problem if they do same times in rain/dry but your car is affected by the weather
Unbeatable
is doing ~01:56 its not extreme hard (top 1000 in rivals on this track)
But yeah posted some 01:52.xxx in rivals yesterday so no idea how much this affected AI. Its not hard to beat them now. Have to test on some route without rivals done
Ok was searching for a Track without time set but somehow there is some time on every track. I know it wasnāt done in rivals. Some tracks there i have only played in online with the car shown in list. So was loading my own ghosts and yeah they start at diff position (in back) in normal race there is the startingline+grid and the braking and steering looks like avoiding collisions with other drivers.
And i know there was this ānow they are tamedā feel. Maybe game is using predefined drivatars until it has some time for the track to ābuildā some drivatars for you. It allows u to have 1set of aidata for each track and with the time from user u can slowdown later. Some tracks needed multiple ārestart eventā to complete and now iām 10sec in front so there was some change
Edit:
btw opens new question. They are saving even the ghosts from normal/online events but nothing is done against cheating? I mean with all the data it shouldnāt be hard to detect them