A different perspective

So… all these complaints. The “I want this feature back”, and the “I dont like this new thing”, and “OMG T10 what have you done to this once great game?”

I actually can not help but laugh… seriously, T10 can not do right for wrong with this community. All the repeated calls to kill of LB cars, because they where killing the lobbies and the rivals… Well, looks like people got what they asked for doesn’t it? Least at this moment in time anyway. Looks like the new Homologation has, for the time being, solved that issue. Then again, who is to say the PI class based stuff isnt just hidden till the standard version unlocks? I think I remember T10 doing something similar in FM6 with regards to the multiplayer hoppers when the ultimate edition dropped, but that was 2 years ago; so could be mistaken. But I do get it, I spend most of my time when I do get on Forza hotlapping; loading up rivals and seeing how fast I can get a car… But I am more than willing to give a new system a try, because its new… Its different, and it might not be as bad as all of the cry’s from people are saying, the ones who are yelling that forza is now ruined because of the new way T10 seem to be handling things.

Then we have the single player campaign, the one that has been oh so boring in the last few iterations of Forza motorsport… it left me with zero desire for me to play through them, lack luster races; only a few laps. Stupidly high credit payouts… It was an annoyance, one which I personally avoided after a few forced races in most cases. The idea that T10 has added back in actual progression… How very dare they!!!

That was sarcasm by the way, just for those who didn’t pick up on it. Since this thread is about different perspectives, mine differs from what appears to be the mainstream view. I am quite happy that T10 have added in a reason to play the single player again, and even given some small control over the race length. Having to unlock the cars through the career tiers, not having everything handed to me on a platter, and lower credit payouts; that is excellent news for me. I want to feel like I am progressing through Forza again, like I had to in FM1 and FM2; back when the single player was far better; least from my view. I personally hope they do not change anything in regards to this. But I know that view isnt shared by all, and thats ok.

I think the way a lot of people are reacting is way OTT though, there are some serious tantrums going on here on the forums; and even in other places. People screaming out wanting refunds, cancelling pre-orders… Even going as far as to call T10 some pretty nasty names, and use language that really doesn’t need to be used. But I get it, you love what you love with regards to Forza; and you don’t want that to change. But sometimes change does happen, and if T10 want to implement what they believe are good changes in their racing game; then they should make those changes. Its no bad thing to try something new, it could show them another way to do things; and it could show us all another way to play the game that we didn’t think of before. I know that we all do not want the same things, and I know T10 make some mistakes. I don’t think however, that what T10 has done, that it equals the fits of rage that some community members seem to be flying into at supersonic speed.

I am not saying that you shouldn’t voice your opinions, that isnt what my thread is about at all. After all, each one of us can find something we do not like about Forza (or anything really). I know I want to hear your opinions, and I am pretty sure T10 do. But there is a way to go about it, a way to voice your concerns without appearing to be effected by gamma radiation and hulking out. Manners do not cost a single penny, they are free. If you have an issue with the game, make life easier for yourselves, make life easier for the moderating team here, and make it so T10 actually want to take you seriously by being clear, concise, coherent… and above all else, courteous. By all means show people that you care, but try to drop the “I want this now or else attitude”. All that does is show you up, it makes it so the moderating staff have to edit posts (and even ban some people). They do not get paid to deal with that, they do not get paid at all. They are here because they too love Forza, they are community members just like the rest of us; and want Forza to be as great as all of you do. They just understand that there is a much better way to go about things.

Anyway, I am looking forward to playing FM7 personally. It may have its problems, I am sure there will be things that I do not like about it, but I am sure there will be things that I do like. But I have to hand it to T10… This iteration they seem to have given us actual change… for better or worse; you have to admit that takes guts. So thank you T10 for the work you have put into this.

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Big +1

Thats because your a fanboy.

Your attitude of everythings ok. Justifies them making silly changes that dont make sense.

If you were sold a blank disk with a forza logo on you’d be happy.

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Yep… such a fanboy ~rolls eyes~

Those are just the racing games I have through steam, thats not counting the countless need for speed titles I own on disk and via Origin on PC (all the way back to need for speed 3); and even going as far back as still having the cassette tape for the very first car based game I own (chase HQ on an Amstrad CPC). I even just recently purchased a T300 RS-GT and TH8A shifter so that I can grab a PS4 and GT sport in the future.

I play racing games, they are the genre of games I gravitate towards, the games I enjoy the most out of all the other gaming genres. I dont have a favourite, and if T10 ever flops; I have more than enough options to keep me more than entertained.

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Never asked for your life story but thanks that was a lovely story.

You seem really peeved at people for raising valid concerns,questions and rightfully critising something they paid hard earned money for which they not satisfied with. I think your only out to antaganise them with this post.

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I hope you see the irony in that your comments absolutely validates his points about the community and their collective hair-on-fire attitude this last two days, and at the same time completely discredits yourself by using adhominems. Also “you’re”.

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Thankyou teacher. Space between ad hominems

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This is the way community feedback (or any, really) is not supposed to work. Thank you Toffo for the example.

Thank you OP for a constructive post. There were many posts in this thread the community members of T10 can, and are actually willing to read. Not because of fanboyism, but because of coherent feedback.

Great examples of both sides.

'Twas always thus, and always thus will be.

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Really, because you make it sound like everyone complaining is wrong to complain and that because the game has given you what YOU want, that everyone else is wrong…

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I’m afraid that on this occasion the criticism of Turn 10 is fully justified. They must know from their statistics how people prefer to play their games. Previous games have catered for most tastes be it single player or multiplayer racing, painting, tuning, photography or hot lapping.

They’ve done a good job with the driving and I’m enjoying the career but I never play multiplayer and there must be thousands like me, so once the career is over I no longer have a reason to drive.

When designing a multi-layered game like Forza Motorsport I would have thought they would try to satisfy the playing needs of as many of their fans as possible.

Imagine removing the paintshop, or the ability to take a picture, what sort of reaction would there have been?

Imagine removing multiplayer racing. what would the reaction have been?

The removal of class based leaderboards from this game is huge and is equivalent in my eyes to the removal of multiplayer, paintshop or picture mode. For the past 12 months I have been organising weekly Hot Lap Competitions on Horizon 3 from the Tuners Garage. The community appear to have enjoyed it and the 100 page thread you will find there is proof of it’s popularity. I came to FM7 with a promise to the H3 community that I would be restarting HLCs on FM7. I’m sorry guys but unless things change and leaderboards are reintroduced I’ll be back on Horizon 3 in no time at all.

Do they not carry out risk analysis when long standing features are removed from the game?

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Oh, I fully accept that a lot of the issues are legitimate and FM7 is ripe for criticism. I’m not 100% happy myself that the PI class based rivals are not currently there, and people informing T10 that they not not happy is a worthwhile thing to do. I like to take a car, put it in a certain class and see how it would compare. Without the PI class based rivals currently in the game, that will be much harder to do. I fully accept that, I also agree that PI class based rivals should be in the game. My post isnt about not talking about the issues, making them known, raising the concerns so T10 can see what the response is to changes they have made. Talking about the issues with the game that people have is a great thing, for all of us. All I am saying, is that there is a different way to go about things; a better way than being confrontation and defamatory towards T10. And that perhaps, even if we do not like the changes 100%, that it might be worth just giving the new things that T10 have tried a chance; as it could show us a new way to play the game… or not.

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I’m sorry but your (not you’re) original post appeared to support a view that whatever Turn 10 does with the game is OK and people should just learn to play it another way? This is the first occasion that I’ve been critical of Turn 10’s direction with their game. I hope I’ve made my position clear and explained why this game will only hold my attention for weeks rather than years. I’m sad.

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Im a quiet guy, and this is the first time I have ever had to post a complaint on these forums (I usually just sit back and read). I completely agree with you. A majority of the complaints being said are very justified this time around. I’m a player who has been in love with the series since Forza 4. I see people complain all the time on here, a lot of which I didn’t agree with. This time around, I still disagreed with most people…but then I got my hands on Forza 7 Ultimate Edition and played for almost 24hrs. With all due respect, that was the most disappointing 24hrs I have ever had on a Forza game. I COMPLETELY agree with you about the class racing! I like using underdog vehicles (Roll Royces, SUVs, etc) against actual sports cars. Now I can’t exactly do that. Also, my favorite feature, by far, right next to class racing, is the ability to tune cars. I sit there for hours on hour constantly building and tuning (so that I can post them to the storefront for uses and also race online with them). Now, there is no more torque number shown in the upgrading menu, and there is also no ability to press ‘Y’ on my controller and instantly go test drive. This makes upgrading cars a much faster process. With having to go all the way to free play just to test a car I upgraded to see if I need wider tires, more power, etc, I have to go all the way to free play and take forever to load a game. Okay, now I realize The car needs more power and less grip. I have to back out of free play, go to the upgrade menu, etc to finish upgrading, then go back over to frerplay to test and begin tuning the car. The loading I understand, but why remove a simple feature such as press ‘Y’ to instantly go to test drive? I’m constantly noticing things like these, both little and big, which are making Forza 7 an extremely disappointing experience for myself (and as you guys can tell, many others). Once again, I respect your opinion, and I hope that you all respect mine, but I do disagree with OP. I simply want to voice my concerns in the correct manner in hopes that the things a lot of people are considering issues get addressed or at least take into consideration.

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I do respect your opinion, and this is what my post was about. You have raised your concerns in a manner that people can read, that can be understood and listened to; and you didn’t have to scream at people. You have not had to insult people, or anything like that.

My post isnt about not voicing the issues with the game, it is about voicing them in a better fashion, as you have here. I am not saying there are no issues with the game either, I am certainly not intending to gloss over them. It would just be nice, just this once, to see the community put down their points of contention as you have just done. Not only does it make the complaints and concerns easier to read, but it is more likely to elicit a positive discussion which can only benefit the community at large.

You say you disagree with me, but my post ultimately isnt about the issues with the game; but the behaviour of the community.

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Wait, “benefiting the community as a whole”? I’ve seen the community express their dissatisfaction in a variety of ways, but, so what? It does not make a difference. It doesn’t matter whether you voice your concerns in a calm, rational way, or rant and rave like me when my bi polar is off on one. Either way, Turn 10 ignore people. Honestly, the thing that has most annoyed me is the blatant omissions of truth about VIP membership, something most of us have paid extra for for many many years. They knew that if they said it was limited with credit bonuses and the VIP cars could be bought by anyone, then most people wouldn’t buy it, so they lied by mission, which honestly, is disrespectful as hell to people to who have supported the company. I understand completely the people who go off on one about this, so while normally I would be abusing the people who act like 12 year olds on a forum, in this case I actually have to agree, because Turn 10 actually lied to their customers

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Well said OP.

Whether you are a fanboy or fangirl your perspective is refreshing.

Constructive criticism always welcome but childish tantrums seem to prevail at the moment.

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I don’t believe that you fully understand the magnitude of the changes that Turn 10 have made. I have no problem with change, but they will never force me to join in with the multiplayer community and that is the only way I can interpret the changes that Turn 10 have made. I disagree with the OP. They have removed the ability for me and many like me to play the game the way I prefer.

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Played about a couple hours last night… I understand the backlash in regards to the unfortunate changes to the VIP system. I think it’s safe to say some people honestly felt mislead by the marketing of this entries perks.

My issues are with detail inaccuracies on more than several cars… Which is to be expected, but shouldn’t be excused. Single player progression is certainly different from the most recent entries in the series. Not sure it’s a bad thing though. Seems more in line with what racing games used to be as far as unlocking items. Which may or may not be to someone’s liking. I submit that it could appear as “grinding”. However it could be viewed as a challenge to others. That just depends on the persons idea of fun.

I don’t understand the complaints on graphics. Not sure if most folks understand game development is all about gives and takes. You want static and sterile environments? Well then more resources can be freed up for other parts of the game. That’s not what Turn 10 was shooting for this time around. They seemed focused on bringing more life to certain environments and maintaining technical benchmarks. Unfortunately that led to the sacrifice in detail of some other aspects. Personally, I never for one second thought I was looking at an inherently ugly game like some are suggesting.

This is not a perfect game and even my two favorite Forza entries weren’t either (FM3, FM4)… I walked away with a very positive experience overall. Was there some dissatisfaction? Sure and there always be. Btw, to those who say their jumping to other racing titles? Good luck, cause they aren’t perfect either.

My first racing game was Test Drive on the Commodore 64. My top three all time favorite racers are… Super Mario Kart (SNES), NFS III Hot Pursuit (PC, PS1) and Gran Turismo 2 (PS1). Notice how none of those are Forza or even XBOX games? Hmmm

I’m not daft to the fact that Turn 10 has no idea who I am or even remotely care… They’re a business and the “bottom line” is their driving factor. If some of you feel disenfranchised enough? Then perhaps your choice to no longer participate will enlighten T10 of their wrongs. I’m sorry to those who don’t enjoy FM7 for legitimate reasons.

I’m just not sure I see all the negativity for myself at this moment.

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The career mode “gives you a reason to play it” because it locked stuff behind it. They should try making the career actually fun if they wanted people to play it, just making it mandatory isn’t an improvement.

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed a few of the events and I like driving cars and all that, but many of the problems still exist, and in typical Turn 10 fashion, the ones they have “fixed” they missed the mark on.

They got rid of the requirement to finish first or on the podium every time and gave us a points championship… But it’s still the same “start in the middle and push past the dumb AI to get to the front” that we have always had because they didn’t give us any kind of qualifying system. The points championship is also somewhat useless, as it doesn’t have a feeling of fighting a championship out because the AI switch vehicles and starting positions randomly, which basically makes them just faceless random cars on a track so it’s hard to keep track of which car on track you are fighting for the championship with.

They also gave us the ability to make the races longer… But they screwed it up by giving us preset options with significant differences in lap count. Would it have been so hard to just give us a little lap count thing like free play has?

I’m like 5 of the mini championship things into it and I’m already tired of it, it feels like just doing the same old Forza career with a different menu system.

As for changes in the game… Maybe if they tried listening to their core community and implement some of the (relatively speaking) simple little options and features that are requested, the changes would be better received. As it is, it feels like they often change things no one asked for, and the few things that people did ask for (like the above career lap increase) they handled in some stupid manner. Hell, a lot of the complaints we are seeing about things are from minor changes, and if they had just given us some more options, would no longer be an issue. Better career race length control is one, how about the ability to play career events without the homologation requirements? Giving us both homologated and class-based rivals boards instead of just one. Not giving us the ability to manually set the grid/opponent cars in free play despite giving us all the other options… None of those would even require them coming up with some new system or anything, it would just require recycling options they have given us before so that we have more freedom to play as we want.

I’ll agree, some people are handling it poorly, and some are freaking out over things and jumping to conclusions… But there are a lot of little things they have dropped the ball on, and it’s pretty disheartening to watch as a series that we love (and some of us have been with for over 12 years now) flail around and consistently fail to deliver despite being so close to greatness. Some attempt to be constructive with their criticism, and some want to be constructive but have just realized that it hasn’t done any good for the last 10 years and have become sarcastic/snarky (I sometimes fall into this category too) but still hang around holding out hope… or something, I dunno.

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