I agree that with this year’s release of DiRT 4 and Project CARS 2 (I don’t count Gran Turismo Sport because it’s not on Xbox) the Forza Motorsport series will be in trouble if they don’t overhaul it. Forza has become too mainstream, too casual, they want it to constantly generate revenue (hence the monthly DLC) and to appeal to the average consumer. But it used to be so much more, the franchise was way more important for us gamers. It was the best racing game on console for years but the competition has really evolved while Forza hasn’t. This year I’m really interested in DiRT 4 and PCARS 2 as well. Forza is great at showing off technical prowess (and I’m afraid it’s Microsoft’s decision to push the franchise into that direction) but it’s nothing more than a poster child for the brand. I seriously hope FM7 will be a huge improvement, but honestly I’m a bit skeptical. That said, no problem because I know that my serious racing needs will be satisfied this year.
What makes Forza so successful is that it straddles the line between both. I agree that FM7 will need to make some big changes to go forward but it is not going full sim, I think we can all agree on that. There’s been several posters on here asking for force feedback for example. To be honest you only get FFB with a 200-500 dollar race wheel minimum. What proportion of the overall player base has a wheel beyond the basic Thrustmaster (without FFB) if they have one at all? Online general multiplayer is the consensus big issue for them to address. Let’s see what they do.
-k
Although I don’t use a wheel I do think FFB is a very important aspect of all racing games and Forza should be no exception. What you say is true - Forza is best about being both realistic and accessible. This is the very reason why it should cater to both casual and more serious gamers at the same time. And I don’t mean iRacing or rFactor caliber hardcore simulation fans, no. But console racers are evolving nowadays and as a leading console sim-type racer, the Motorsport series should evolve too. I think there’s a huge potential. With the Horizon series going more and more wild (see the Hot Wheels expansion) the Motorsport games could (and probably should) become more and more serious. And I think we see signs of this: more emphasis on real race tracks and racing cars than ever before, e-sport improvements, etc. I think both Turn 10 and Microsoft have to understand that much of their fanbase is maturing with the games, and there’s an ever higher demand for more serious racing games. They have to cater for that or else more and more people will find their entertainment elsewhere. Forza Motorsport has tremendous potential and appeal still but they need to build upon that. Not only with e-sport championships and business partnerships but with actual gaming experiences as well. What I hope is that Motorsport 7 will show this.
My Logitech G920 is not a cheap wheel, nor is it unknown. It costed 300€, plus 30€ for the shifter. Its FFB is good with PCars and AC. Simply not with Forza.
Even my humble Driving Force GT had a better FFB, with GT5 Prologue on the PS3.
It’s simply bad support/compatibility provided by Turn 10. Let’s not defend them on what’s simply indefensible.
I think you just made my point there… The percentage of players on FM6 who are able to drop a further $400 US into a wheel is not that high, therefore FFB while not an issue that should be ignored completely, shouldn’t be a major focus. The keys will be improving career, AI, and online multiplayer if they want to appeal to most and improve their game to the greatest degree.
-k
It’s not a “major” focus to provide even a decent FFB, is it?. All the other developers are doing it.
So all of the sudden Forza Motorsport became an arcade title and everybody is supposed to play with a controller? I’m confused. Didn’t FM have “the best graphics and physics”? (I’m quoting Greenawalt from E3 2008, I guess). Why even bother focusing on physics if you’re too lazy to transfer them into the wheel and let users feel them…
Edit, double post
I’m not saying they should ignore it, only that the other issues should come first and affect a far greater proportion of the player base.
-k
The reply would be that the game is supposed to be all about car culture, and getting people invested in car culture. Dan Greenawalt has said that in interviews more times than I can count. And so take me as an example. I’ve been an avid fan of motorsport since adolescence. I’ve always been into racing games. But Forza coupled with the ease of jumping into multiplayer games on XBL took it to a new place for me. I started following racing series that I’d never paid attention to before because I could drive the cars in Forza. I joined some competitive leagues for Forza to try and learn from the big boys at TORA and the now defunt Virtual Motorsports. I tried my hand at wrenching a bit and went to check out car shows. Eventually that all led me to want a FFB wheel for a more realistic experience. At that point, Forza lost me as a regular player. So I reached the apex of what their stated goal is for consumers but rather than sinking their hooks in further, the experience with their FFB and physics on a wheel sent me off to play other games that do the job better. There are games out there that can do both controller and wheel well. There are people in the industry who know how to do it. T10 has the resources to get this done. There’s no real reason to drive your most devoted consumer base away. These people should be your ambassadors in the public instead of telling all the new kids that, should they want a realistic experience, they should go try game X instead. I trust they know this and are working on it. I hope.
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I miss Virtual Motorsports, most professional online racing league I ever competed in.
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This might be good news regarding wheel support: Forza Motorsport 7 Confirmed by Fanatec, with Promising News for Wheel Users – GTPlanet
they need to remake forza 4 it was literally perfect.
But with FM3’s tire/fuel wear/consumption, and with the new cars and tracks that showed up in FM6(GP, Can-am, the single Euro/SuperTruck, etc). “FM Greatest Hits.”
Long story short: Forza Motorsport should evolve in every category now, because the baby steps the series has taken in the last few years are not enough against this kind of competition. The series is in danger of losing its most important fans: the long-time Forza players who see the lack of innovation. Physics, damage modeling, realistic graphics, real career mode, feature-rich multiplayer and content management should improve dramatically now. Horizon should be the casual game and Motorsport should be the hardcore branch. Apart from driving assists it’s pointless to mix the two in my opinion. Only marketing managers think otherwise.
I’ve been saying that ever since Horizon came out.
Maybe it just takes time for that franchise to gel and develop it’s loyal fans before they can influence a split between racing genres.
Perhaps once Horizon beats Forza in numbers, we will begin to see some decisions on direction of the franchise?
Whatever it is, it feels like these decisions- as they usually are - are driven by the suits upstairs - and most of us do not question what the boss says, whether we like it or not.
@Dreampage: You’re right in that Forza has benefited from the failures of GT but there are some decent competitors this year especially if PC can get its act together. We will see what they have in store when FM7 is revealed in a month’s time at E3.
@ooPayneoo: You can say that due to the runaway success of FH3 that Horizon has already overtaken the Motorsports series in sales. You would hope that because presumably T10 is a racing/driving game focused company that has been producing Forza games for over 10 years that they would understand what the game needs better than the “suits” at Microsoft, but the lack of real transparency and communication with the community is a little troubling. I’ve had better communication with Ubisoft, a company which has been maligned by many players and have been able to send and receive personal messages with people actually making the games. T10 should step up their game here.
-k
I’m afraid as well, that the direction this franchise takes is determined by the marketing people not the racing enthusiasts that created it originally. They have to follow the sales path or else Microsoft would not support the series. So it’s all about appealing to the widest range of consumers now. I don’t think Turn 10 can afford to take the path Polyphony or Slightly Mad can anymore. They have to make a product that looks great on the storefront and sells as much as possible. Deep in my heart I feel FM7 will be the last chance for me - if it remains like this I’ll find serious racing elsewhere. It’s very sad after sticking with the franchise since 2005 but the world doesn’t end.
I think you’ll find that was the philosophy behind every Forza since day one. That’s the reason the series is still with us and has exceeded a billion dollars in revenue (sales, not profit). Every other decent racer on the XB platform has in relative terms been a lemon so of course they try to attract the largest number of consumers possible. This in itself isn’t a negative.
I don’t think that T10 or MS have deviated far from the design goals they had way back when FM was produced. If you were to look back over past wish lists I also think you’d be surprised at how well they’ve responded to what people were asking for.
Oddly, there tend to be very few people asking for improvements to gameplay. Overwhelmingly people ask for non race related features and eye candy and neither of these actually improve a game at a fundamental level.
It strikes me that the biggest problem with FM recently is actually the people playing it and not really the game. This is a tough one to solve but let’s hope they’ve given the problem some serious thought.
This forum has been overwhelmed with ppl asking for improvments to game play. More specifically a penalty system that works among a whole list of of other features
Wsd once said the games not broken ppl are, you seem to belive the same complete rubbish he does. So I will give u the same answer I gave him.
U cant change ppl but u can change the game
So if it’s the game, how is it possible that I have had fair and clean races?
Get gud so u can pass the bad players bronzy 