Actually horizon and motorsport usually share the same physics engine but with different global acceleration values, it increases car acceleration and gravity= grip by around * 1.6-1.65 in horizon. And maybe some other changes that I’m not aware, but fm6 and fh3 seem to share same engine, while fm7 share it with FH4, the only exception is FH5. FM 2023 seems to use modified fm6 engine.
Real world cars are mostly set up with understeer, reportedly because an average driver’s instinctive reaction upon approaching a bend too fast is to lift off then brake. Lifting off causes the car to tuck in so assisting turning the corner, and hopefully prevents the driver from hitting the brakes too hard, which could lock up the front wheels and exacerbate the understeer, and/or unload the rear causing oversteer, neither a good situation for said ‘average driver’.
In FM8, lifting off has varying effect, but in stock spec road cars, slowing down and tucking in rarely happens the way I expect, so to get the car to turn, it’s brake harder or try to tune out the understeer.
If Turn 10 intended for us to mainly build up road cars, they should have made the tuning process easier, or make it easier to find good tunes. A Creative Hub might solve the latter but I fear low player numbers mean it will be too late. It was due to be implemented in 2024, but like a lot of things in this game, it failed to materialise.
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We are talking about race cars.
Race cars at the pinnacle of performance should not understeer like boats. (LMP1, LMP1, LMDH)
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I know they all use the forzatech engine. Fm4 and fh1 shared, fm5 and fh2 shared, fm6 and fh3 shared, fm7 and fh4 shared, fh5 would have been based off the latter, but with more time it evolved in its own way. Im interested to see what fh6 does, does it continue with fh5s version or try to do something with fm8s.
From my testing between motorsport games recently, fm5 and 6 share more than fm6 and fm7. Fm8 and fm7 biggest difference is the ratio of under and oversteer, with fm8 having more inherent understeer.
The cars are generally heavier in fm8 compared to 7, but that adds stability which aids corner exit. Fm7 cars tend to be faster on straights and have shorter braking distances. In the long run from my tests the lap times are largely equal, but the games get those times in different ways.
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Sorry, I read the thread title ‘Why do stock tuning setups handle so poorly?’ and assumed it referred to all the cars, but then I’m no mind reader, so couldn’t infer that it meant only race cars. I’ll leave now.
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Road cars have understeered in every Forza I’ve played (1,4-now). This understeer is horrendously bad. You need a heavy foot or finger to get the back end to come out on corner exit. Mid corner understeer isn’t something I’m familiar with with rwd cars. If the entry speed is low enough, the car should clear the turn fine, not push out mid-corner.
The higher the handling stat, the less understeer. A stable rear end under braking and accelerating is a different story. If performance cars were this boring and predictable to drive in real life there would be a lot less accidents.
The fact that race cars also understeer is an indicator that it’s a widespread problem.
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Figured default suspension tuning out. At least in a few of these GT3 cars. Not enough compression and a smidge too much rebound. Just been tinkering with these GT3 Porsches and I’ve only taken their default compression up a couple ticks and rebound down like 1 tick. Handle infinitely better. Of course this isn’t exactly a stock car, but maybe the same issue applies with them as well.
Might be worth a shot.
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I think this may be one of the biggest issues. I’ve just been tinkering with this on this 2023 M2 and on Miami I’ve clocked a good 10 seconds faster by making sure the hot pressures didn’t hit above 32psi.
Stock pressure got me a time of 1:40 and some change, almost 1:41. 32psi hot = 1:31.066
Car is 100% stock.
Eh. Turns out that number was a false reporting in the Driver List thing. I’m seeing 1:31.066 there, but 1:36.228 in the hud. Honestly dunno what my actual time is. It’s still lower than with default pressure tho.
The Cadillac LMDH car is an outlier. Despite having the lowest performance index, it can actually be the fastest LMDH in the series. This is all because of the way Forza calculates it based on the stock setup.
On the Cadillac you can;
-Run Min/Max downforce setup, Max front Min rear, and it will not slide.
-Run extremely low PSI in rear tires, increasing overall launch and acceleration, still doesn’t slide on fast corners.
-Run 100-0 Accel-Decel differential, still wont slide.
If you try any of this in any of the other LMDH cars, they are practically undrivable. So you get high grip and max speed with the Cadillac.
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I always run default tyre pressure, and alignment (unless car have -3/-2 or higher stock and I see I have no grip, then I reduce camber), and I never have any issues winning races (and I rarely use meta cars), unless I use rly slow car for fun…
Well I could even run default tunes and win… (With minor changes to gearing, and 100/0 diff, and making sure car have all race handling parts, sport brakes allowed, race diff and race transmission)
And generally, all I change in my cars for bit better handling, is changing rebound/dump ratio from 1.5 to 3 (~3.3/3.3 dump and 9.8/9.8 rebound) + soften springs to ~60-70% of default value (depends on car)
Stock cars on other side … well I just use default values anyway, if car have open diff, it will handle like garbage regardless of what I do (golf MK1 spec series)
If u can, always upgrade diff to race, and just 100/0 it… It takes a while to get used to having so much controll over car, but it’s definitely faster.
Threw a hail mary and just started slamming these things to the ground. Nothing else, just ride height all the way down. Or nearly all the way down. Maybe a tick or 2 from bottom. Instantly got better. Seems this 4x4 ride height just isn’t cutting it. It’s a combination of ride height and damper stiffness. That or the handling simulation just isn’t quite there.
I do know that slamming these to the ground helps a ton. Look at all the race cars. They’re all slammed to the ground. Why are the defaults for the non race cars so lifted? Doesn’t make sense.
Just way too much body roll in these defaults and stock tuning setups.
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That’s oversimplifying it as much as the guy who keeps telling everyone to just 100/0 their diffs
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I didn’t say it was an absolute solution. Just what has worked for me so far.
The fact that their defaults have too much body roll is the cause. Ride height too high, suspension too soft. It’s like everything is tuned to be a 1974 Riviera or Caddy.
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About 100/0 diff… It’s just Forza physics thing, any positive deceleration values will make cars take corners slower, while also it will not help much with oversteer on lift, it will oversteer anyway if suspension setup is bad, so it’s better to make suspension understeery, while having no resistance on differential.
In case of 100% acceleration, this value is always the best in putting power to correct wheel mid corner (it works in a way that always puts all power in perfect balance between left and right wheel, if u use lower values u will just reduce power output, and make handling more unpredictable, sometimes leading to more oversteer because inside tyre will lose grip), diff in Forza does not work like in real life. It’s better to use 100/0 diff and just make suspension understeery, by reducing spring stiffness, reducing dump values, and increasing rebound values, it make car controll easier, and in case of drift, it makes easier regain grip on rear wheels. (Also makes car handle curbs better)
Usually I use spring values around 25% of max springs values, ~3.3 dump, and ~9.9 rebound, it makes handling with wheel lot easier, tho it does introduce understeer.
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Ideally you would make things as low and stiff as possible to cut down on body roll. Race cars are inherently stiffer than most road cars because thats what theyre made to do. Most road cars arent tuned to be raced on a track because most people dont use them this way.
I understand what youre trying to say, that by just adjusting this or that stock cars feel and/or are better. But thats kind of the point of this game is to take stock cars and make them better. If theyre already optimized, then the cars wouldnt be stock and thered be no point to upgrade and tune them.
By adding a race suspension, the car loses some weight and various settings are changed compared to stock. So just by switching parts, not even touching the settings, the car is improved over stock.
I have never said anywhere that cars needed to be OPTIMIZED. I just asked why the base tunes were so terrible and not even close to what the real world car is capable of.
I think this all stemmed from the Porsche Carrera. I did a bunch of laps around Nurb and the car was an absolute piece of cow excrement. In my opinion that car with a base tune should have at least been fun to lap around Nurb with 0 tuning. (Not a novice at the ring BTW)
It was so bad that I shut off this game and created the thread and really haven’t resumed any racing on this game.
It took so much of the fun out of this game. I don’t want to tune every single car I get into, so that it behave as a stock car should.
There are over 500 cars in the game. Im sure there are many cars that dont feel right regardless if they are technically right or not. The fact of the matter is road cars dont usually work well on a track, even 911 carreras, this is why they make track focused 911s like the gt3 and gt2.
But even then, the 911 gt2 which was fm7s cover car, imo felt horrible. Theres some cars that feel bad, some feel fine and some feel great. Some even when tuned dont feel good, unfortunately the answer to this is likely deeper than just stock tunes.
A car i think that portrays this well is the nissan gtr. On paper it shouldnt perform the way it does, but theres all kinds of systems it uses to be ridiculous. Forza doesnt simulate those systems, so the car in forza doesnt perform how the real car does.
There are numerous possibilities for these discrepancies. Could be physics limitations, could be limited or inaccurate performance data, could be manual adjustments to keep a car in a certain class or division which theyve said they do sometimes.
I think as all these racing games have advanced over the years, expectations have advanced even further to the point that theres a very fine line as to what people find acceptable or not. I think in specific cases, many games dont nail everything, but i think most of them, most of the time do.
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Yeah, but when you just add race suspension it’s usually always at the highest height. For those players out there who don’t know a thing about tuning, this isn’t good. They could think that the game’s auto-tuning is the way to go and just leave it be. This is what I’m getting at. Every single car that I’ve added race suspension to has behaved infinitely better when the ride height is dropped considerably. My point is that their lil auto-tune feature needs updated to reflect this. Their defaults are too high and too soft.
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I know i get what youre saying, but this has always been this way, 20 years, every forza game. So while some may not realize these things at first, eventually they will and/or it doesn’t matter because most people modify and tune their cars whether manually or by downloading someone else’s.
Theres a few things like this in this game. Stock sounds, stock tunes, even stock paint colors are inaccurate. Default ffb settings are atrocious and need to be tweaked. It just shows these things are not the focus of this game.
Most people modify and tune cars, so this allows sounds and stock tunes leeway, most people either paint or download liveries so that nullifies the color inaccuracies and most people dont use wheels so default ffb is what it is.
Are these acceptable answers for these shortcomings, no but thats just the way it is. This is their 8th motorsport game, if these things were going to change they would have already.
I think at a certain point with any game, you just have to accept its flaws and enjoy whats good about it, or not accept it and find something else. Its possible if they release another game some more care may be put into these things, but its just as likely it will be exactly the same.
The entire premise of games like forza and gt are unrealistic, but thats why theyre fun games. Most people would never take an economy car, put a v10 in it and race ferraris around the Nordschleife, but you can in these games. So personally i accept these accuracy shortcomings because thats not what this game is about.
This is where a game like ac evo comes in. Its seemingly going to be a more realistic approach to upgrading, tuning and racing road cars. Too bad turn 10 didnt think of this as i think it was a good idea and will likely be successful.
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So. Got this M4 GTS. Slapped slicks on it. Only slicks. Handles great. Decided I’d try the race ARBS and INSTANT fail. T10 defaults on these race ARBs don’t make any sense. That or they’re just broken. Gonna dive in to these a bit deeper 'n see what’s what.