Why are there no puddles when it rains?

Forza Motorsport Forza Motorsport (2023) Discussion
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After FM6 and FM7 we no longer have puddles and the driving in rain has changed a lot. You pretty much can take the exact same line as in dry condition only a bit slower, so I wonder,
‘do people miss the old rain physics?’

My question now is, would You want puddles that would alter the ideal line and lead to some really sketchy racing?

I want…

  • Puddles only in low places
  • Puddles wherever it is realistic
  • no puddles (how it is already)
  • Puddles but with optional physics (turn puddles On/Off in settings - except multiplayer)
0 voters

I want puddles that are…

  • noticeable but not much
  • very noticeable (low throttle input to not spin out)
  • like FM6 very aggressive (no throttle input to not spin out)
  • I want no puddle physics (how it is already)
0 voters

Check out this Suggestion if you want the devs to improve the Rain Physics:

My initial thought was that the devs just wanted to make the game more accessible or easy for players, because FM6 had extremely harsh puddle physics and FM7 only a bit nicer. But after seeing the Drivatars struggle in wet conditions and flying off, I figured that might have been the reason. Maybe the Drivatars literally can’t handle it.

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All that improvement to the tire models yet they can’t even have the tires react realistically to water? Sigh. I miss the days of puddles building up in shallow parts of the track, those were some of my favorite races of all time. Another one of the cheap shortcuts this game took.

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Geez better than the Devs polls lol

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IN FM7 I hated the rain races and avoided them whenever possible because the puddles would unrealistically throw the car in random directions at any speed.At least in FM23 you can drive through them without spinning out.Im all for puddles that affect handling but they were ridiculous in FM7.I’m glad they are gone.

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Not sure why people think hydroplaning in a car going like 75mph on racing slicks is unrealistic haha

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Agree, no mater which tyres at which speed. If you touch any puddle on FM7, it would be like it is 20cm deep. Never had that in any sim/game or on real road.

Actually to compare it to a game, in FH5 when it is wet season, there is one track with right turn near the start, where there is a big puddle right on the apex. And that one you can see it is deep and it is realistic that it will take you out if you hit it. But going straight on a race track like spa, there can’t be such a deep puddle in the middle of the track. Or Spa has worse surface than street road in my country.

That said, FM2023 has none of it, I would take FM7 puddles but with lower impact.

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I would really like them to bring puddles back but I do think that there should be the option of turning off the physics and just having the visual part. Sometimes me and mates just want a fun wet race, other times we’re wanting the full experience.

And with the puddles they need to bring in a drying line. All that effort to bring rain to any track yet nothing really happens when it stops widdling down.

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Be sure to go to the suggestions in the original post, vote on them and let T10 know you wish to see this feature come back. The vote count is what let’s T10 know how many people are interested in suggestions!

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I’ve had it before, doing 110 on the freeway and hitting some standing water on the front right and it pulls you the direction of the wheel that was affected just like in FM7.

FM7 either pulls you in if you decide to hit it deep (on purpose) or if you just skim the side it can tend to send you the other direction, if you try to counter it too hard it can ruin your day but not as much as being stuck to the car next to you like a magnet, now that’s annoying

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I’d put my money on Turn10 not wanting to scare away the “New to Motorsport” players.

Another challenge lost, games these days are too soft

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11

Yes, hydroplaning happens and sometimes in a lot lower speed than you would expect, all you need is heavy rain. In those conditions sometimes even 60 mph is plenty to make you a passenger of your car if there’s lower spots in the road. Guess how I know… :nauseated_face:

Many here say that FM7 puddles are / were bad but I have always thought that FM7 rain was too easy. I remember FM6 having deep puddles and cars going off track all the time. From FM6 / 7 / 23 my favourite was and still is FM6 due to the fact that you really had to pay attention to your driving line when it rains. Was it too much? Maybe? A little bit? But it sure was fun and challenging at the same time.

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Good question!

I want puddles to form and dry with weather changes. I want aquaplaning back.

FM 6 had great wet weather physics

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I loved the puddles in FM6 and was disappointed when they were toned down for FM7. To me, they created just the right feeling of drag on the car that it felt like driving through puddles in real life - in a normal car on normal streets, anyway. And it made racing in the rain an experience that was actually interesting.

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I wish they were realistic but tbh I don’t even care. I hate rain racing. Rain should cancel races.

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@r0llinlacs , this, this is what should happen. Plus it would make it easier for the developers if they didn’t have to mess with riany day races. They could focus more on getting the rest of the game done right.

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Totally agree with the drying line, works great in Project Cars 2

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They first have to know how racing in the rain works in the real world and how much rain to allow before a real world race is called. In short, the team needs to learn more about racing in order to build a racing game.

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Exactly.
Sure, have some light rain in a racing game/sim, but don’t waste any development resources on building the functionality & visuals for extreme weather because no racing occurs in extreme weather.

:100:
Gotta learn to crawl before learning to crawl a little faster. :rofl:

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Do puddles even form on these multi million dollar tracks in real life with rain? If i don’t have to deal with puddles in the highway then I’m not sure if race tracks would really have dozens of puddles.

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Most highways and public roads have a crown (surface is higher in the middle), so that water will naturally run to the sides and into storm drains.

Purpose-built race tracks generally do not have crowns (flat surface = better grip), so whether or not puddles will form depends on just how flat the surface actually is, on how different areas of the track are graded (pitched) to direct water flow, on the placement of dedicated drainage systems, and on the ability of the surrounding land to absorb water.

Even tracks that are very well built and have generally good drainage tend to have some standing water in places - e.g. small rivulets where water runs across the track as the slope of the track or the surrounding land changes, or areas of the track that have settled slightly over time and collect water. Generally, these are dealt with effectively by wet-weather tires, but depending on the depth of the water, speed of the car (not to mention the tread depth and overall effectiveness of the tread pattern), they may have a significant effect on the car - ranging from feeling a slight “pull” on the steering wheel, to complete hydroplaning and loss of grip.

I don’t know that Forza’s physics are detailed enough to be able to factor in things like tread depth and tire wear when determining whether a tire can successfully deal with standing water without hydroplaning. At the very least, it should be able to take speed into account, as the faster you go, the less time the tire has to disperse the water. A few mm of standing water at 50mph… probably not a big deal. At 150mph, it’s much more treacherous.

Personally, I feel like wet-weather driving in FM23 needs some kind of standing water to be present. I agree that extreme weather like heavy thunderstorms are kind of irrelevant to a track racing game, as no one would actually race in those conditions.

But there definitely should be instances where we can feel a twitch or a slight tug on our wheels from the drag of the tire passing through the water. Maybe not to the degree that it was depicted in FM6, which to me felt a little extreme, but something. As things stand currently, it feels like rain is basically just an overall grip debuff - you can still take the same lines (in addition to avoiding standing water, you should need to alter your line to avoid heavily rubbered-in sections, as they’ll become more slippery).

3 Likes