What’s crazy here is when I first started playing this game on early access I chose the WRX and just started racing it and upgrading it just enough to win. I thought to myself “I should save some of these car points I’m earning so I can apply them to another car” Because that’s the logical way to play a racing game since… (checking notes) FOREVER!!! Imagine my surprise when I got into that second car and wondered where all those car points went. Then I realized how the devs set this game up. How disheartening.
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The crux of the matter is the current car leveling and Car XP system is the worst of all systems combined. Another poster already mentioned this, but I’m confirming it:
The current system in FM is neither rewarding, nor balanced in any way, shape or form across the entire game. The system doesn’t have just one imbalance you can ignore and still have fun. The whole system is imbalanced across all of the modes and presents itself as the core game play loop. Take it or leave it.
I’ve speculated this before, and I don’t mean it as a personal insult to the devs, but it just seems like this system was made by somebody with no prior game design experience whatsoever?
Every single aspect of it is objectively bad, or done in a way that doesn’t motivate players to continue engaging in the core game play loop. It does the exact opposite.
To not be able to foresee - Or perhaps, they didn’t care, or had no choice - How badly this system is/was implemented, and how it would ruin FM long-term is just staggering to me… An insignificant nobody on the internet who doesn’t have a game design degree, or portfolio, but can easily see how good reward systems work in games. Speaking of reward systems…
I’m replaying the “campaign” for Forza Horizon 5, on a new profile.
I’m doing this because I want an up-to-date, non-subjective view of how it’s created, warts and all.
I’m about 10 Hrs in, and have unlocked all the major venues/disciplines, and I’m working my way through some of the side stories and other activities. Guess what? I’m having FUN.
Why am I having fun compared to FM?
It’s not just the freedom, but how that freedom is rewarded and encouraged… What this thread is all about:
I can do ANYTHING and be rewarded for it. Even if it’s small things like discovering landmarks, taking a photo at a certain time of day (accidentally), discovering roads, etc. Then there are the bigger activities like racing, tuning, making a livery (I don’t personally do this, but there are rewards and accolades associated with it), etc.
There is also my Driver Level that actually means something and isn’t just a number of how many virtual miles I’ve logged in the game. Not only am I rewarded every time I level up, but it has things attached to it that show other players I’ve been with FH5 since it launched (original profile), and certain perks that make the game feel even more rewarding like buying the Player Houses that grant you XP bonuses, additional wheel spins, etc.
Now, obviously, some of these things can’t apply to FM since it’s not a open world game. But the main things that can be applied is what I wrote in my initial response to this thread:
Universal Car XP and increased ways to earn that XP.
I know FM has a long way to go to be a “good” game, but if T10 made these two major changes to the current leveling system, it would go a long way to giving back some of the freedom that was taken from players that was present in previous Forza, games.
It would lessen the grind and motivate players to just play the game instead of feeling like they have to play it a certain way in order to have any semblance of fun… The key aspect that’s missing and is driving people away.
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Agree 100%. Thanks for taking the time to write out the issues with the current system in such a lucid and impactful way. Your summary of how Horizon works really illustrates how that game continues to have lasting power and a spark of spontaneity and fun that this game just doesn’t.
I think some (including probably the devs themselves) look at Horizon and think “they’re showering people with money and cars, it’s too easy and therefore not rewarding”. Even if that is the correct conclusion to draw for motorsport, I think they’ve identified the wrong cause of the problem.
Yes, Horizon gives you a lot of stuff. But that doesn’t mean the underlying mechanic of how stuff is earned and given is wrong. Rather, it’s a matter of the amount and speed of progression. You can still make Motorsport hard so that it’s challenging to “get to the top”. But the method by which we get to the top has to be rewarding in and of itself for the game to work.
I don’t think the devs have never developed a game before because if that was true even random chance would make a better system than what we have. I think what we have here is they overthought the whole thing and went in the wrong direction. They didn’t want to be accused of making a game “too easy” so this is what they did. But like I said, they confused the mechanic of the progression system with the amount of stuff given. That’s also why I think a simple switch to a universal car points system would fix this problem all by itself.
There’s a reason why car games are the way they are. They’re simulating what happens in real life. You make money racing and you buy better stuff. It was that simple all along. All they had to do was give us cars and let us race. This system intentionally stymies our progress but in an unfun and unsatisfying way. Probably because they overthought it.
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Very well, said.
By the way, I just summarized a much longer and in-depth thread I created that goes into detail exactly how and why the current system is so unrewarding, and even offered up some of the solutions we’re discussing, here:
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