Disclaimer: This is sort of the ramblings from an autistic person with anxiety and depression, so it might seem entirely silly to most.
Simply put, I am having a lot of worry about the future of this game. Forza Motorsport in general is now one of my favourite game series. I love the customization, the ease of access, the visuals, the car detail, all of it. Even this new game, despite it lacking in some areas, has mostly what I love about the series. Regardless of my enjoyment of the game though, thereās been so much negativity in regards to it online. I entirely understand that this game feels incomplete in ways, but I still really enjoy it anyways.
Thing isā¦will this game even survive? I can only assume it hasnāt sold amazingly well in comparison to other entries in the series, the ānewā tracks have all been tracks that were in FM7 (which makes these updates feel more like meeting a quota), and thereās no actual car packs to speak off post launch, minus that single Porsche prototype car. We are already approaching the 1 year mark of this gameās release, and I canāt help but be incredibly worried that Microsoft will eventually pull the plug, especially after the ordeal with Tango Gameworks.
I want the game to succeed, I have a lot of passion for this series, and letās just say, a lot of things I have passion for simply die, most of the time. If anyone can provide it, I need some kind of reassurance. Thatās if there even is any to provide. I wouldnāt mind if they announced a PS5 version of the game, to boost the community and to give more of a reason to keep supporting it. Who knows with Microsoft anymore.
As a pessimist reassurance isnāt what I generally do on these forums, but if thatās what you need Iāll try my best.
T10 plans to support this game for years, which likely is why the content is being dripped at such a slow rate. With FM23 coming six years after FM7 if they dropped everything at once it would be like āNow what?ā once the car pass was done.
And with T10 being so well established and producing subsidiaries like Playground Games it makes it less likely to be abolished by Microsoft.
Luckily racing games are very easy to capitalize upon as there is so much sponsorship in racing. Look at Need for Speed Underground 2, it was pretty much a giant advertisement for race parts conpanies.
Because of this even a game with few players can still be rather profitable, especially if they are able to convince the racing leagues to come back.
With Fable being in development T10 may have sent some of their devs to help out at Playground Games but this is conpletely specualtive (especially since their devs are mostly contract based on eighteen month terms, this would only make sense for full time employees to be loaned out)
My assumption is that come year one they will begin bringing back the series in which the FOMO cars were previously unlocked in but keep them as permanent installments.
This gives players that put in the effort a one year advantage to those of whom are new players or players that just missed the timeframe. If implimented this will drastically increase player numbers. And provide more main series content which has been one of the most wanted improvements since the games launch.
But that is exactly an absolutely stupid approach, the opposite of how you should design a game like this. You actually need a good framework for the game - and FM is still in a pitiful state after a year. Then you need communication, which is also terrible, quick bug fixes and lots of content to keep the player base happy. T10 does exactly the opposite of everything.
I recently mentioned Dead by Daylight here as an example of an excellently supported life service game. Bugs are fixed very quickly, every 3 months there is a new chapter with more killers and survivors, new maps, licenses, etc. In between there are events and cosmetics. Above all there are roadmaps. I always know when something new is happening. Turn 10, on the other hand, takes months to bring recycled content and old cars back into the game and I donāt see any attempt to even keep the remaining players. Itās nice that theyāve now raised the level for tunings to 450ā¦but what use is it to me with my 460 tunings? I still canāt download any more and I canāt share my own either. Iām wondering if there are interns at work, I canāt explain it any other way. This is also driving away the hard core of the game. We donāt need to talk about communication. The last stream lasted over 4 minutes and basically just said that there wonāt be any new track next month. Smart, for the one-year anniversaryā¦
Here are the Steam numbers from the last 24 hours. To me, the game looks like itās about to die. It will depend on MS whether they are ready to continue funding FM. Maybe to have this type of game in the Game Pass, financially it probably doesnāt make sense.
As much as we like to bash FM23 for its ancient models the framework for FM23 was actually ābuilt from the ground upā. They developed an entirely new engine for Fable and decided to build their racing game on top of an engine made for a role playing game, a bit peculiar but it works relatively well and has one of the better feels of all of the racing simcades out there.
Turn10 as of 2014 had 100 employees, Behavious Interactive as of 2019 had 1,300 employees. Might explain why it takes T10 13x as long to make improvements.
Comparing a racing games numbers to a survival horrorās numbers is like comparing apples to a hockey mask. Thereās a reason around that dozens racing games come out every year meanwhile 100ās new survival horrors will be made in that same timeframe. Survival games are WAY more popular than racing games are right now. Even the most popular racing game likely pales in comparison to some of the more popular survival horror games.
Out of curiosity I decided to actually look up the numbers:
369 Racing games have been released in 2024 on Steam. Ā· 587 Racing games have been released in 2023 on Steam. Ā· 492 Racing games have been released in 2022 on ā¦
1639 Horror games have been released in 2023 on Steam. Filter games. 1322 Horror games have been released in 2022 on Steam.
Comparing live service games here not the genre, my friend.
Edit: I canāt do anything about the staffing situation at T10, they took my money just like Behavior. If they donāt have enough manpower, maybe they shouldnāt have made a live service game, but a normal Forza. Your explanations may all be correct, but in the end they only underline what I said: Forza is dead. The first and most important element to die was the passion for racing.
Edit: Behavior certainly has more employees - today anyway. What they donāt have is an MS behind them, with endless resources. I think thatās a pretty good comparison, because it shows how you can build and maintain a player base with love and passion. Despite limited resources. T10 had all the resources, just no love and passion. Not to this day. Theyāre not even trying to turn things around. They just keep throwing irrelevant, ill-considered content at us without any love.
Something I forgot: If you donāt like the DbD comparison, then just play Forza Horizon. Itās also a racing game, but made with love. They donāt have any problems with a player base thatās too small. Ask yourself why that is. I defended FM for a long time, but after a year where everything is going in the wrong direction, I no longer see any basis for it. They should perhaps stop the game, do everything again and release it properly. With all the tracks and a selection of current cars. You canāt even dream of newer cars like the Ferrari Daytone or the Pagani Utopia anymore.
The future is indeed in jeopardy. They messed up big time. It should have been released early access work in progress cause that is what it is. I donāt know it can come back from this. I have no idea what Chris Esaki was thinking or told to think. He fixed Forza 7, heās a hero and then fumbled the bag with how this game originally came out. Racing RPG I still donāt know what that is. No one asked for it. Ever. Worse than how 7 originally was. How was that even possible? The pandemic maybe I donāt know. What I do know is that it alienated much of the base to the point where they wonāt come back. This may be that last game in the Motorsport series for a long time maybe never again.
There was a conversation in another thread a month or so ago about communication and how there could be more community engagement that @T10ManteoMax was going to take back to the higher ups. I wonder how that went, communication seems to have taken the opposite direction and we donāt hear anything from them.
What are we supposed to see in that comparison exactly? And why are you showing graphs from two different sites that presumably have different methodology.
Immediately, looking at the SteamDB page, I see a bunch of free weekends and Humble Bundles, and it makes me think that this may have influenced the long term success of the game. Itās also much more streaming friendly, and that helps too. It debuted on consoles a year after the PC release, and wasnāt on Game Pass until 2019. So thatās also a different set of circumstances.
So again, what are we supposed to compare there exactly?
Other way round, Fable is built with ForzaTech as a base.
Why quote decade old data that is almost zero relevance to today?
I think we should get away from the notion of deifying individuals when game development involves several designers plus hundreds of staff who also contribute to ideas.
Chris would have to sign off on a lot of things for sure, but itās not like he came up with all of the gameās features and systems by himself.
Thatās what Iām saying, Iām not sure this whole RPG style car leveling was his idea. He may have been forced to do it. Also he is the creative director. It sounds like a creative decision to me. Either way someone had a terrible idea. It could have been him or Alan Hartman if he is even still there. It doesnāt really matter who it should not have been added to the game. The whole team should have been aware this was not a good idea. It so obvious how crazy an idea it was. For the career enthusiasts they say oh great career and it literally itās the lamest shortest most boring one ever. . They can add all they want every month it is just to make play just like Horizon playlist. This takes even longer than that to complete and they keep making it longer. I donāt know anymore. Thatās why I donāt post much. Whatās the point anymore.
That said, the racing is actually good, the feel is good itās just everything around it. The menus for the love of god. Itās so annoying to have to go back like 6 screens to do something. Yet another creative decision. I barely play. I do rivals. Once a month Iāll do some online racing. Almost every person I knew is gone. We had a group of at least 20. We are down to 4. Itās over. Iāve zero inclination to find another group. Itās a shame I finally get pretty decent and the rug is pulled out from under me. I really want a ghost lobby too. Itās too frustrating to have to constantly worry about getting wrecked. With ADHD I hyper focus and when that focus is interrupted by a wrecker I instantly get frustrated. I would play every day if they had one ghost lobby. Just rotate it every week to a different car class. One lobby is all I ask. One. People will play no collisions. They always did. No one tell me that isnāt racing cause I donāt care. Had that conversation more than once. That time can go on the leaderboard and I will get my best time in a race not going in circles by myself. Itās pushes you to race harder. Ghost with cutting penalty Iām in heaven and will never get frustrated.
For me the saddest part of this game has been seeing a once thriving and competitive community be obliterated.
Canāt remember the last time I was invited in to a chat or randos used a mic or even received an end of face message. None of my friends who i all I met playing previous games play any more. It was literally the heart and soul of the game. Now MP is just a soulless experience, even when you find a good lobby, itās quickly disbanded in the next race.
Then social aspect is probably the least talked about feature of the game but itās certainly my biggest miss. The social aspect has declined massively in the last two games
Solutions are clear. For example if they add a new to forza supercar as a new week new car and then in that week they give players relevant multiplayer lobbies such as spec racing in supercars or an open lobby for that new car or even implementing group racing for example having 12 slots for that new supercar and having another 12 for the rival of that car and also keep adding tracks and updates like new customizable forza aero, this kind of content and in game events will definitely keeps this game going as not only a live service game but also a very good simcade with really really good driving physics.
Also they can add daily races in different styles and forms with daily milestones with prizes like new rims or money or emblem or even another new or even recycled car. Thatās how a live service game works. At this point i really donāt know and donāt understand what are they doing or planning.
Communicating more and doing stuff above can not only save this game but also make it a good fun racing platform.
Honestly i woudlnt worry that much, it will keep going and weāll get a new one that might be even better. Also i realise the forums complained bitterly about 6 and 7 too - people who use forums arent representative of people who play the game.
There is a ādeveloperā that has recently been hired to handle some of the communication. Heās been active in the steam discussions and very clear about the future of the game.
FWIW, both Playground Games and Turn 10 Studios advertise themselves as having 201-500 staff on LinkedIn and thereās no particular reason to lie there. Now sure, that would easily allow PG to be twice the size of T10 and provide no idea on the mix of full-time and contract, etc.
Iād be really surprised if the fall doesnāt bring any paid car packs to the game (that more than anything would point to a lack of human resources), but they at least have been noticeably upping their āpartnershipsā to generate some revenue.
Do Gamepass games receive ongoing āroyaltiesā from the service?
. They can add all they want every month it is just to make play just like Horizon playlist. This takes even longer than that to complete and they keep making it longer. I donāt know anymore. Thatās why I donāt post much. Whatās the point anymore.