Racing realism is lacking

Forza Motorsport Legacy Motorsport
61

The 15 page thread you mention attracted posts from a mere 70 or so people. Hardly what you’d call a true sample of customer feedback and even within the 15 pages there was some disagreement and differing opinions. That sums up the point I’m trying to make. If the Forzanet “fan base” comes up with a range of views (not a consensus) from 70 or so players out of a customer base of millions how can anyone here possibly say “people want X” and “the game needs to include y”. It can only ever be a personal wish and not “the voice of the nation”.

If you want a slider to shorten or lengthen the races in career then that’s what you want. Some would prefer that career be the same for everyone and others would prefer to play the game as the developers intended. Others would even like to see the range of options reduced. Do I personally want to see difficulty sliders because PCars had them? Absolutely not. What I’d like to see is several developers each creating their own products in their own style thus providing me with choice and diversity. Vive la Difference.

62

Like i said, Stockholm syndrome

How exactly could adding options to an offline, single player mode, be anything but good, do anything but make that experience more enjoyable for more people? You sir make no sense and are beyond reason, but keep trying to convince yourself you are “right”. It’s rather entertaining

3 Likes
63

IF there were a free-form offline, single player mode, as many options as possible would be great.

But that changes when we’re talking about the “Career.” I wrote this up in the other ‘career’ thread, but nobody responded, so I’ll try again here:

Just what IS career in this game?

Is it a simulation of starting as a “rookie driver” in karts / spec Miatas and then progressing to bigger cars, getting sponsors, building a race team, joining various series, etc?

Is it selecting from pre-defined race “categories” - generally based on car-type / power / etc - jumping around as you play the game, until you’ve checked all the boxes… at which point you have “finished the career”?

Should you get Achievements for career events? And for career completion? Personally, I don’t care about 'cheevos, but I know a lot of people do…

Should I get the same “career completed” achievement if I rip through it doing 1-lap races as someone else who does 8-lap races? Perhaps the “default” career would be all one-lap races, and allow people to change it to longer races if desired.

Of course, thinking about it, not much different from back when we had “hire a driver” feature… Plenty of people got the career achievement without ever running a minute of an endurance race (or any other race they didn’t feel like running at the time).

Maybe it doesn’t matter at all. There’s no real story-line to the career, so perhaps the best thing would be to give everyone every career-based achievement as soon as they enter the first race. From there on out, set races to as few or as many laps as you want…

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Until I hear otherwise I assume its similar to fm5.

I have clearly said that any feedback is just one persons opinion.

Games can improve by looking at other games. Sure they should not copy the whole game and sure some features in other games wont work. Doesn’t mean you should not look and i am convinced that pcars and forza can learn from each other.

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As far as the game goes as a career path… I do not think any races should take more than 8 minutes.

The average attention span, will not allow people to continue doing laps, in first place, alone.

Adaptive AI is a bunch or Jargon, that basically tells you, even the best drivers in the world cannot beat their own shadow around every lap, at some point your shadow will be in front of you, just make sure it is behind you at the finish line.

Games that have this Rubberband AI, tend to have exciting races, but after a while, you realize how to beat them… and you are then losing the battle to yourself, and adapting to become a worse driver.

The drivatar system, when it works, is fantastic. I have had some great races against my friends’ drivatars, whom are unfortunately members of this board, and much faster than myself, “ehem SatNiteEduardo” and consistently put me to shame, sometimes by a good 10 seconds.

Standard AI, based on PI was also easy to beat, given the proper tune, You could drag a D class bullet train, around the corners, eventually, and get a 3-4 second lead, provided you could keep it for the rest of the race.

Having longer races being anything but a better chance to lap other cars, I see no reason to even make it an option in the vanilla career.

Want longer races, don’t do the career.

This was what I loved about FM4… I did the whole game, based on events, rather than the career.

66

I’ve never driven Forza, but I’m seriously thinking of making the move to Xbox One from PC (Assetto Corsa). Drag that I’ll have to buy a new wheel, though. My G25 is still going strong.

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Forza will never be Pcars I believe both are aimed at a different market entirely, Imho forza is aimed at the American market where players do not want there racing to difficult or to real but do want to win and win quite quickly, we’re as Pcars is aimed more at the European market where the race it’s self is more important than the winning, clearly you can not stereotype as im sure many Americans out there want a full option racing sim just as they are some Europeans that just want to pick up win and move on.

Could one learn from the other? Erm I’m not so sure, one thing I do know is SMS know there target audience well and do tend to listen, T10 I feel just do what T10 want to do and up until now have sold games much like polyphonic have on name only how much longer this will continue with other big hitters coming out on console I don’t know.

But everyone is entitled to an opinion and personal I can’t see how options can hurt any game.

I feel we are lucky to now be getting a wider choice and with AC on its way that choice will only improve for us gamers, the question is now with the greater choice will you buy on brand loyalty or will you try other things? At the end of the day it’s not only a game that has options not any more.

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Not sure that stereotyping by continent/region is wise nor accurate.

Not sure SMS should be put on a pedestal for listening to anyone.

Games learn from each other all the time and even from different genres. Like I said it is not a dead cert that taking something from one game and plopping it in another will work but it is worth looking. Not sure if this is a left brain / right brain thing but creative minds can learn from things totally unrelated to the topic / game at hand.

I personally agree that options can’t hurt.

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You quoted me before I had chance to edit, the way the stereotypeing came across was wrong of me my error I know, and certainly not trying to put SMS on a pedestal not sure how you interpreted my comment that way but if that’s how it came across to you then I can say it certainly wasn’t my intention but I do feel they listen to there audience more than T10 ever has just my opinion.

70

Yeah,Ian Bell is a real role model,lol.

1 Like
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Man this fourm gets worse, where did I mention Ian Bell?
I never said that, if your referring to my post please quote me where I’ve said that.

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He don’t listen to anyone,if he don’t like what you post your gone. That’s not listening to me. You said SMS listens,Ian Bell is SMS and I stand by my post.

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I NEVER mentioned Ian Bell, the SMS development “team” is made up from more than just one guy you get that yeah?

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Fine,believe that. Come back and tell me what happens when you post something negative,i’ll wait.

75

You do just that fella, me I’m going to bed.

76

Sweet dreams dude!

1 Like
77

OK, now I understand.

First things first. The post you quoted wasn’t “feedback” it was a response. Both the response I made and the post being replied to are pure supposition as of course the game hasn’t launched yet let alone had a shelf life. I simply have a view that whilst some of the features mentioned will be missed by some I don’t think that they’re exclusion will affect the average player so much and will be offset by the new features and content. I expect the shelf life of FM6 to be average. Nowhere did I say this makes it a “better game”.

As for not being interested in having an adjustable career why would that bother you. I’m OK with you wanting one but it just isn’t something I’d ever ask for. Initially you advocated T10 should employ features from PCars. I disagree and gave reasons - I would much prefer to see developers develop they’re own products in their own way, employ their own ideas and put their own spin on the subject matter. I have an opinion that there isn’t enough diversity as it is and I don’t want to see games get any more similar than they already are.

Later in the thread you aired the view that an adjustable career would be a good idea. I don’t. There is already the facility to adjust difficulty and I think this is enough. Careers or campaigns are an important element of gaming. Many people don’t do MP and the career or campaign represents the entire game. Games award XP, Badges, Titles and the like for progression through career, many games feature unlocks and access to other elements. It’s a fundamental structure and I think career has to be the same for all otherwise it stops being career.

I’ve made my fair share of criticisms and suggestions in the past and I’ve been shot down in flames for some of them but this is a forum, not a suggestion box. It’s a place to discuss all aspects of the game/s, throw around some ideas and responses.

Had you suggested a tiered career I’d have been in full support. Three of four different career paths through the game. Starting at club level through to professional where race length, AI, Assists and car class vary. You could do all of the paths or if you’re already a seasoned player go straight in at pro. But again, pro should be the same for everyone. I’d go further and make access to some hoppers dependant on completing or at least progressing through the career in question. Some will hate this but that’s OK

78

Thankyou for discussing sliders.

I don’t agree with a couple of your points. And yes I know that does not mean I am right and you are wrong.

Firstly if career is all some people play then I think it is critical it is customisable to allow them max enjoyment. Some found no matter what difficulty they put the drivatars on in fm5 that the races were too short to catch the number 1 driver.

They have asked for longer races. Without that they may not enjoy career.

I dont want longer races. I know others who dont. So at this point sliders look like an option so people can choose race length.

I do not see how the races need to be the same for everyone. Apart from earning a cheevo there is nothing to compare with someone else. And in PCars i have seen no feedback about the sliders being bad and i do believe that is indicative they would be well received here as they help the casuals as much as they help the simheads.

EDIT: in PCars I think the shortest races in career are about the same as FM5. Not sure about the longest. And in PCars if you choose to do the endurance invitationals you can only go as low as 2 hours so there is a lower limit to stop them being too ridiculous.

I feel the length in FM5 was fine. It was still a long career to do every race. Some may only want to do certain sections but in an endurance fashion. That does not make it any less a career (in my opinion). I know not everyone can be kept happy but to be honest I am baffled why someone needs to know they are doing the same length as someone else in a single player career mode. I honestly believe most people would prefer to have the flexibility to choose their own race length but without the means to ask all multi millions of them I can not prove that :slight_smile:

79

I’ll just mention first that I hardly ever complete career myself as I find them a bit boring. But the “Chevos” and XP are too integral to XBox gaming to ignore. For many it’s all about the badges or maxing out the game or reaching another tier level and so on. For this reason I don’t believe it’s a good idea to mess around with career too much. Should career be more enjoyable - absolutely!

Forza has always had a very simplistic career structure and I’m sure they could easily flesh it out if they though it would enhance the game (read sales). No reason why you couldn’t introduce a number of championships to run alongside a shortened career where the player selects the criteria in terms of AI, locations and race length. Championships could be over a number of races and award their own “Chevos”. If as part of the off line game experience the vast majority get a chance to set up the game to their liking then its mission accomplished.

Presently the career is far too repetitive anyway so perhaps breaking into different components is better. One element being career as we know it but scaled back in terms of number of races. Here you can award all the usual rewards. Second section of custom race championships. You can still make some awards for completing each championship and your finishing position. You could even extend this for drift, cone events etc. That way players could skip any elements or events they don’t like (I personally hate cones).

I’m not anti change as you seem to think and I don’t believe that T10 have ever got close to making the best game they could.

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I think I will stick to just playing the game. This forum is too frustrating. Why discuss something if it is not part of the game you play?

I think I agree with a previous poster who used the word obtuse.

I am out.

1 Like