Why Does Turn 10 HATE Racing?

I have tried and tried to find something to like about Forza Motorsport 6. Sadly, there just isn’t any reason for a serious race fan to play this crappy arcade racer. Unless, of course, you’re a fan of drift racing. I’m not, but I know a lot of people are. However, regardless of the popularity of drift racing in the gaming community, for the other 99.999% of racing disciplines sliding around the corners is the ABSOLUTELY LEAST EFFICIENT way to turn your car and to be avoided at all costs.

Ultimately though, that is the least of Forza 6’s problems.

It all starts with the races themselves. The developers made the moronic decision to assign a starting position mid pack and require the driver to finish each race in third place. This, when combined with the length of the races forces the driver to absolutely wreck their way to the front. There is no time for patient overtaking or strategy. Which is the heart and soul of actual racing. But no, rather than make each series an actual series delivering points for finishes and crowning a winner, it is race/crash your way to third or better, rewind, restart, or run it again.

Of course everybody complains about the drivatars. Mostly because they just crash into you at every opportunity. But because of the idiotic 12th place start to 3rd place finish over 2-8 laps, there’s no real possibility to develop a drivatar style that performs otherwise. And the entire “drivatar system” is just a mask to hide the rubber band racing style that Turn 10 delivers. I can have an 4 second lead over the car behind me, run 0.2 seconds slow in a sector, and have the following driver crash into me in the next corner. Meaning that they magically made up a 4 second gap after the slightest missing of an apex. Higher difficulties don’t actually match you up against better drivers, it just stretches the rubber band that much tighter.

Then there is the traction control/stability management, and damage settings. If I turn off the traction control and stability management, it is turned off for me, but not for the drivatars. Which means I just handicapped myself even further than Turn 10 did with the race set-up. If I turn the damage to simulation, the drivatars crash my car to ruin before turn 1, and only take about 10% of the damage that they inflict to me. There is simply no reason to make the race impossible to finish when it simply forces you to re-run it endlessly unless you finish 3rd or better.

Then there is the rain. At first glance it looks like this is the great equalizer. And I LOVE driving in the rain. The puddles added a great dimension to the driving strategy. Until, that is, I got to the all rain series in the Professional racing volume. And it becomes clear that the drivatars are NOT affected by the puddles. Leading a car, I was going wide to avoid a puddle, only to have the drivatar car accelerate through the puddle passing me. The next lap, following the same car, it goes through the same puddle at speed, but my car hits it and turns dead right. Proving that Turn 10 has made a very pretty arcade racer that penalizes the player every step of the way, but not the NPC cars.

At this point it becomes clear as to exactly why Turn 10 wants the players to spend so little time actually driving their cars. Every ounce of development went into the graphics of the game, and absolutely no effort was put into the gameplay itself. But hey, it is certainly the BEST paint booth simulator on the market!!!

It’s mind boggling that the people at Turn 10 can’t seem to figure out that racing is a strategy based team sport. And the strategy comes from it taking more than 5 minutes per event. Races, even on a console, should NOT be able to play out over an average commercial break. I understand that serious simulation racers are a niche product, and Turn 10 needs to make the game appeal to as broad a base as possible, but this game is a sad joke. Especially considering that for patient racers whom want a longer race experience, all Turn 10 has to do is create the option as to how long the player wants their career events to last. It’s a difficulty multiplier that should be on the assists page and multiply the credits received for choosing longer events.

Now let’s talk about the “RETURN OF ENDURANCE RACING” to Forza Motorsports 6. LMAO. Nine endurance races. And the player can’t choose their car style, tune their car, change the weather, or the time of day. This is NOT a triumphant return to endurance racing! This is Turn 10 saying, “#!@% YOU, you players aren’t happy with car bowling, and want endurance racing? well how do you like that!?!” There is no excuse for not having an endurance race at EVERY SINGLE TRACK CONFIGURATION IN THE GAME THAT HAS ACCESS TO A PIT ROAD!!! Furthermore, the player should be able to choose which car class(es) run the event, the length of the event, the weather for the event, and the time of day for the event. All of these things already exist within the game itself, and doesn’t require any more work for the developers than creating an option interface. It’s not like this is a shooter where longer experiences require more levels and a deeper story. Since the programmers were too lazy to develop dynamic weather and time of day, I can accept that the endurance races in the game, as is, couldn’t really support a race of more than four hours. But that is plenty long for even the most hardcore racing fan to set up and enjoy the experience.

However, the endurance racing SHOULD support up to (and include) 24 hour races. The PS2 was able to accomplish this in ‘24 Heures du LeMans’ by simply auto saving at every pit stop, and allowing the player to quit before leaving pit road. Upon returning to the game, you just picked up where you left off in the pits. It was a blast, and felt like a real accomplishment. Now don’t worry, I read the F.A.Q., and am aware that Turn 10 said that they didn’t do this because it wouldn’t be “realistic” because one driver doesn’t actually run a 24 hour race. But let me share with you guys a few MORE things that aren’t realistic:
1.) Car Bowling
2.) A Rewind Button
3.) Mod Cards
4.) Static Starting Positions
5.) Forced Podium Finishes
6.) Magic Fairy Pit Crews
7.) Rubber Band A.I.
So as long as I am expected to overlook the blatantly unrealistic racing conditions, and as long as I have to pretend that a pit crew exists to service my car, I can also pretend that we are making a driver change at the same time!!! Just don’t make some lame excuse about realism to cover for the lazy and sloppy job that the programmers did.

If Turn 10 wants to make a drift racing game, then fine, but don’t promote it as a simulation racer to steal the money from my wallet. This is a limited drift racer, with no real career, and nothing to hold a serious racing fan’s attention for more than a couple days. On a scale of 1 to 100, I would give Forza Motorsports 6 a “5”, simply due to the pretty graphics. The absolutely LEAST IMPORTANT aspect of the game.

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The online racing seems pretty solid to me at this point.

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Sorry but I have to disagree with this statement.

Online races are too short. A handful of tracks in B class are only two laps, many others are three laps. The same may be happening in other classes but I’ve mostly only raced in B so far.
Two laps is a warm up, not a race. I don’t expect to see hour long races in hoppers but five laps minimum would at least feel more like racing. Even the lap counts in Forza 5 were better thought out than they are this time around. If you start near the mid to back of the pack in a full lobby online in these two lap races you can forget about a decent finish.

There’s just not enough time to work your way to the front and the drive to win mentality shines through for many as they bash thiermway through the corners because they know they only have two laps to win. Why T10 set the laps so short is really beyond me. If people out there can’t hold there attention span for longer than two laps I don’t know why they’re even playing a racing game in the first place.

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Quite right mate . They had an endurance hopper on F5 which I used quite often as I prefer the longer race formats. Surely T10 can just add this on for this year? With the carnage that happens due to the arcade destruction derby types you get caught up in that first corner and its game over. At least with 7-12 laps minimum it should reward driver skill over people using my car as a brake pedal.

Attention span is a real thing.

How many times have you been in a MP race that starts with 15 folks and ends with 9 folks finishing? A lot of guys playing are very casual, this happens to be only one of the games they pop in the console for the evening. They aren’t committed. Not winning the race? in 9th place? Well they can always quit and play something else!

I see people hopping in and out of lobbies all the time. I have never understood those folks that enter and immediately leave lobbies. Were you going to play or not?

T10 knows that the fan base is not going to want to wait in a lobby for more than 3-4 laps to finish and spectate is not going to change that. I agree that some of the decisions are head scratchers, because as alluded to before, some things could have been left as optional or choices. There were some things that I found inexcusable. But there are other decisions that T10 may have made based on what the actually do understand about their audience. Which ia probably a lot more casual than the people posting on the forums like us.

The OP includes some points that are why I have taken my gaming time elsewhere.

But on some of the points I am on the other side of the fence.

Firstly in FM5 and FM6 it is possible to race clean to the front. Don Ente had videos in FM5 that showed it.

I have no desire for longer races and would prefer sliders…that actually change race length, race pace of the ai opponents and behaviour of opponents. In FM5 I was often hotlapping the final lap and therefore do not want extra laps in career mode. I know others want them so give people the option. The sliders were one of the best points in Project Cars.

I do not understand the OPs mention of drift racing. I can race to the front, clean with no drifting.

I absolutely hate the way Turn 10 have implemented weather. The puddles are way to overbearing and I would not be on track in real life if the tracks were like that.

All up I think the devs are missing the boat in that they are aiming for gamer x rather than a game that is adaptable to a wider audience.

In short Forza no longer seems to be enjoyable by me.

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Surprising to see you on here after your massive dummy spit. I could have sworn you said you wanted nothing more to do with the forum and the franchise, and yet here you are on the forum telling us how you’re done with the franchise.

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I decided to try the game.

A couple of times i have read the forums.

Both the game and a lot of the recent forum malarky I have seen have pretty much confirmed my previous decision.

Not everyone wants or likes to do multiplayer due to the fact that there’s way too many nit-wits that jump into games simply to cause havock, ‘cause it’s fun’ (not).

Like the OP, many racing car players want a little taste of the real style of Motorsport. I liked Forza 3’s enduros races where it was a real challenge to race the different tracks over extended periods.

Seeing actual tyre wear, and over stressing of engines due to poor gear change mistakes.

Loved that game,98% finished as you can’t complete a game unless you play multiplayer sections.

A good game relies on return business and fans that have been with this series since its inception in 2005, really are the backbone of the games existence. Sure, Drifting has taken the world by storm, but again, if a racing game is designed around real world tracks and events, then please ensure that it follows real world physics (within the scope of the hardwares abilities).

I basically walked through Forza 6 within a day and a half. Sure, kit want to finish all cars in all segments of the game, but Turn 10 don’t pay out credits for re- doing the series after you complete them completely with another car choice. Each segment is restricted to the car you choose as if you feel a better car, in the same class, can handle a different track better, you can’t change cars. You’ll loose all progress and have to restart that segment again. And you’re stuck with that car until you finish that segment.

I’m not saying the game is not good, it is, but as the OP points out, there’s some major setbacks included in the game that hobbles those that want the best out of it. If that all makes sense?

Reading the title I thought this would be another one of those thread but I like that you took the time to think about it, and it’s well written.

Maybe the game should be advertised as an arcade racer. Even as an arcade racer it would be a better title than others out there. You have good points. Those points withstanding, I think the game makes a pretty good arcade racer that provides small opportunities to escape and have some fun as those opportunities are presented. If I only have 25 minutes to do some gaming and want to enjoy it, then Forza provides that.

I know everyone plays that way, but it seems that that is where the market is headed.

Those that are serious about sim racers go the way of a high end or custom built PC and look there for real simulation racers.

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You forgot to add IMO.

It’s a car game to have fun in, there’s racing and plenty of other things to do. If you just want racing go play Project Cars but be cautious of the bugs!

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I know whe sim racers always think that where the majority of forza players. But reality looks completely different. There are ways that you can make out forza a more racing oriented game. But forza is a game for the masses. The majority don’t care about real tyre wear, real laptimes and advanced setup settings. Forza should give you a good time. In multiplayer you can lot of fun with the game and if the free play would offers more options the game would be perfect for what it will be. I love forza mainly for hotlapping and multiplayer and tuning cars.
Arsetto Corsa, iracing and project cars offers the things that you look for. Forza would never return to the old days where the game follows a more motorsport path. Maybe they make little compromises but it will be never a real sim. I think it’s impossible to make a serious sim with that much cars.
It’s definitely no drift game. if you tune the cars right you can even without tcs and stm drive without drifts.

Quickly…before you get shut down…which you will…
Try out Rivals. I’m with you on many of your thoughts. I’d like a real racing game (which Forza is not). It’s a fantastic driving game though. And there is stuff for others such as painting, tuning, etc. But Rivals is great for thrashing a car round and round the tracks. And you make tons of credits. Give it a shot.

Now…re-read your post…there’s something you gotta take out. But lately I’m noticing the mods really seem to take offense to mere forum members pointing things out so I can’t say what you did wrong.

I think Forza couldn’t quantify how lucky they were when Project CARS hit continuous snags. If it was really good, and consistent, I’d probably still be there. Sadly, as I got it on PC, I couldn’t even beg Steam for a refund.

Sim racers know that they’re not the target market. But they will most certainly be one of the larger portions of the player base in 2 years’ time when things are calming down. They’ll still be out there running their own championships and hot laps. That’s why it’s important that there are features that they can use otherwise the game’s tenure and longevity will be slashed.

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It’s not luck, Microsoft wrote the book on the Systems Development Life Cycle and IT Project Management, something that small shops like Slightly Mad Studios haven’t quite mastered, so instead of content updates with new features, it’s a constant stream of bug fixes with an occasional “free car thrown in” and new tracks being added that we have to pay for. I use PC for practice only on those amazing BTCC circuits like Oulton Park and Donington and Monaco (Azure Circuit), but I have to tell you that I don’t like paying for their crappy car DLC’s.

well thought out interesting read. I agree with some points. A.I, is a huge issue, weird starting points. Endurance should have it’s own mode entirely so people that want to do that, can how they wish to.

The length of races? Longer I agree if they cut down on the events. Considering the constant need to finish in 1-3 and the insane a.i. racing 10- whatever laps for a 70 hour length would make it 200.

The mods don’t bother anything. It’s just a change from forza 4 with every race having predetermined credit/xp/ ect boosts… you just make your own now.

Why all the hate for the bowling… i swear people just hate the little distractions and mindless modes like it affects the racing. You aren’t forced ever to do this. In fact 6 has much less of these modes. I mean there’s a few bowling events, barebones virus and tag and that’s it.

I won’t even get into the rewind because that’s not new.

I think you need iracing and other super sims.

This game isn’t near as arcadey as horizon or nfs but it isn’t a super serious sim, that’s pretty much a given.

Great post though!

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Its a game, just like any other racing game or sim. I don’t car what anyone says you can’t simulate racing (g-forces, etc.) just like you can’t simulate warfare in shooters. If you want real go race in real life. If not then stop complaining because Forza 6 is the best racing game out.

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That isn’t fair, dude. Racing IRL (even at the amateur level) is HIDEOUSLY expensive. Very few people can afford such a hobby.

If YOU have that kind of money, well, good on ya. But, to assume everyone else does is eliteism at the “let them eat cake”-tier.

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Yep it’s scary how people get so mixed up between gaming and reality, I think some of them genuinely think they could hop on track in an actual car and do just as good. La la land for them.

They do. I watched a documentary once about Nordschleife, and many people there have just got off their FMs, GTs, PCs and what not, sure they can just hop on and do the lap.

Anyway, while I agree with 1 or 2 points with OP, namely format of the career races, it is what it is, it’s been like that for a while, so there is no reason to expect it’ll ever change. Add situation online and it’s clear most people do enjoy trashing their way through the field.

Some fail to recognise the game is not tailored specifically for them, it’s meant to sell to millions.

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