Putting DLC in perspective

Forza Motorsport Legacy Motorsport FM5 Discussion
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Hi all

I’m dismayed that people still think Forza’s DLC and ENTIRELY OPTIONAL microtransactions are some kind of corrupt money-grab, kicking us fanboys in the perishables at every turn just to make a buck. While there ARE developers out there that indeed do just that, not one argument or statement to ever appear on these forums, nor any action by T10, has convinced me that T10 is one of them.

Now, I agree that Forza 5 was a bit lacklustre in terms of content and features, especially at launch. However, they’ve been patching the game monthly. In addition to fixing bugs, like any good patch, these updates have often changed and/or added things demanded by YOU AND I, the gamers. We said the drivatars were too aggressive, and lacked collision-avoidance senibilities. They made them better. We said the cars were too expensive in-game. They slashed the prices and changed (read: fattened) race payouts and level-up bonuses. We said there were too many crashers in multiplayer; They added collision-free lobbies.

One of the principal complaints about FM5’s content was the track list. Scores of gamers, myself included, were rather vocal about this- People were threatened with the hammer for even MENTIONING the Nurburgring, so numerous were the threads and posts. T10 not only supplied the Nurburgring at long last, but two other fine race venues before that… All for free. Now, FM5’s track list is still a little short of other games, but how many developers would have said “Well, ya done bought the game we sold ya. That’ll be $11.95 per new track.”?

The ONLY thing T10 has charged real money for, besides the game itself, is new cars. This is nothing new, they’ve been doing that all along. What IS new is not spending in-game credits on the DLC cars, a change wrought, once again, by the demands of the gamer.

I’ll only say one thing about car tokens: They aren’t a corrupt cashgrab in any way, I’m sorry. I, like many, many people who play this game, have most of the game’s most expensive cars and have never spent one dime on tokens. They’re there so you can spend real money IF YOU WANT TO, to get things faster. There’s nothing in the game you can get with tokens that you can’t get by just playing the game, simple as that.

So, T10 gave us 3 free racetracks, microtransactions that are not mandatory in the least, and dozens of DLC cars which come in at about 75 cents apiece if you buy the car pass. By contrast, a couple of years ago, a certain developer released the third game in a popular science-fiction game trilogy. That game had a $20 paid DLC. Wanna know what you got for your extra $20?

  • A major character that was supposed to be in the main game

  • Important pieces of the plot that weren’t in the main game

If this developer had sold us, say, Forza Horizon, you’d have to pull into gas stations and pay real money for gas & tyres. Or you’d get speeding tickets and pay them with real money. Microsoft may not have the greatest reputation, but there’s no need to cry wolf. T10 has been fair with us, we should be fair to them.

B Wald out.

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While I can appreciate your thorough counterpoint to those who object to these sorts of practices, you never will and can’t expect to change people’s minds regarding downloadable content/micro transactions. So long as gaming consoles are connected to an online marketplace that aims to sell virtual stuff, these perspectives - on either side - will always exist. I advise letting people have their own thoughts on the matter; certainly, it has very little impact on yours.

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You make a valid set of points, B Wald. However, as things are, I don’t see things changing. The game publishers like microtransactions because they make money, and as Shadow points out, too many people use it.

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Its the direction MS going with there business model that scares everybody. When I spend extra $20 to get the Limited edition only to find the same cars, ya Im going to be unhappy. Or they already selling you DLC on day one. When FM6 only come with 10 cars and 3 tracks every thing else being DLC, what your perspective going then?

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My problem isn’t with microtransactions, it’s with the cars. I understand they couldn’t have a complete library of XBox One quality cars at launch. However, if you bought all the DLC cars you still wouldn’t have as many cars as previous iterations of the game but will have paid double (at least)(if not more). I’m not saying it’s bad business, however it does make the game bad value. If it hadn’t come up in my Gamefly queue I wouldn’t be playing it at all. Which is sad because I love driving games, and I love Forza, but they’ve made it too cost prohibitive to get access to a fair amount of cars and fully enjoy the game.

I feel like they’d have done better to make a Prologue version of the game like Sony did with GT5 and then once they had sufficient content ready sell a full version. Maybe they’re doing fine, and if so fantastic. But I feel like they’ve lowered the bar in terms of content, and that makes me sad.

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Hi B. Wald
Its a very ‘touchy’ subject. You have made very valid points. I think the problem for gamer’s is the fear of the future. I think a lot of gamer’s feel that the actual ‘full game’ will be overshadowed by DLC.
Some people feel that DLC only benefits people who have a lot of money, especially when it comes to the online competitive side. Sometimes you can buy a DLC item which gives you an edge over those that don’t. I feel that is somewhat unfair. But, I agree with you, Turn 10 allows people to earn in-game credits/tokens to buy the cars.
I’m a Forza newbie. I bought the game brand new [€59.99] and I spent €9.99 on the ‘Hot Wheels Cars Pack’ cos there is open wheel racers in it.
So I’ve spent €69.99 in total. I don’t feel cheated, not one bit. I think the game is absolutely amazing. I could rant on forever about all the things I love about it. I know I will be a dedicated Forza player from here on in.

I don’t mind buying DLC for a game that I love. This game will be the only racing game that I will buy until FM6. DLC adds longevity to the life of a game. If FM6 does not come out until 2016, the entire FM5 package will cost me €109. That figure equates to €54.50 per year or approximately €1 per week.
I think that is very good value.

We all have different views on the DLC issue but love it or hate it, it looks like its here to stay.
All DLC in games is optional, but I think its unfair when developers release DLC that gives wealthy people an edge over others. In that case, the developers DLC is not ‘optional’ it becomes ‘compulsory’.

I can list many greedy developers but I wouldn’t put Turn 10 on that list.
I think FM5 is one of the best racing games I have ever played, if not the best.

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Personally I wouldn’t buy the game if I didn’t have the option to add cars. I wouldn’t want to have my options taken away.

The DLC is optional. There’s 100s of cars on the disk. They even put out tracks for free.

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I agree with everything you have said. DLC really isn’t that bad of value considering this game is in 2 year cycles ( I don’t count Horizon at all).

If you compare Turn 10 and Microsoft to people at EA for their games it’s not even close to who puts more effort into quality and refinement.

EA are horrendous.

Turn 10 and Microsoft are saints compared to them.

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Hey there xxDeltasleepxx,
I never played Horizon, I believe its like an open world kind of racer, I’m sure its good but I prefer the circuit racing. I like some point to point but circuits are my bread and jam.
I agree, Turn 10 and MS are doing good things.
In regards to EA, I don’t think they are too bad, when I say that I refer to their games like Dead Space, I’m unsure about their seasonal sports games and shooters cos I don’t play them.
I usually only buy DLC for the games that I really like.

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Thanks for the resposes folks.

I wasn’t trying to change anyone’s mind per sé, nor predict the future.

I was just trying to encourage folks to be saavy consumers, pay attention to value of dollars spent, and save the accusations of corruption for companies that deserve them.

As was said, DLC is here to stay, we must recognize devs who are fair about it.

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We all knew the exact car and track list before the game was launched. Anyone who was disappointed after the fact is a poor consumer. We also knew there would be DLC cars.

The DLC makes sense for people who are hardcore Forza fans. For those who like the game but don’t play it as heavily, they can skip it. That’s the way it should be.

I bet Forza 6 will have a lot more cars on the disk. Forza 4 had a ton of cars, yet we still saw DLC.

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The only problem I have is that I paid for these cars in FM4 and Horizon and will likely pay to download the same cars in horizon 2. I just wish that when a pack of cars is released in FM5 that I had already paid for in FM4, it would be nice to get it for free or at a discount.
That being said, I love the game too much to really let it bother me.

I have been saying this for the last year but micro-transactions are here to stay. It is a money maker, not to be confused with a money grab. I think overall it will benefit us gamers because if a developer is making more money, that is more money they can put back into their games. Which should mean better games, better servers, better graphics etc…

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I do not understand this train of thought at all. T10 and MS are businesses trying to earn a profit from their products … why would you expect to get something for free because you happened to purchase a previous unrelated product? If you bought a second new car from a manufacturer, would you expect to get all the options for free just because you purchased them for your last vehicle? If you go to a movie next week, would you expect to get your popcorn and drinks free just because you bought them at the movie you went to last week?

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On a price per hour of gaming Forza is good value for me.

If I wasn’t going to play it much then I would not buy the dlc.

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Using this metric, my Xbone and FM5 were quite cheap indeed. My 360 probably wouldn’t even register at all, lol.

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I never had problems with Forza DLC (in fact I considered them an example of good DLC) until Forza Horizon where they simply keept the cars away to be sold in packs for later, you could say it was a new game and all but it used the same 3d models.

In case of Forza 5 is far worst, the game feel absolutely incomplete and the car list went from 700 to 200 cars, same goes with the tracks, so all the DLC doesnt seem like we are expanding the life of the game, it just seem to be that we got an unfinished game and we are getting the other parts piece by piece and sadly I cant find the same love and passion that I felt for Forza 3 and 4, which are the best racing games for me.

I did bought every DLC for Forza 2, 3 and 4 , but I havent bought any for Forza 5 at all.

This game really big expansions.

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Because the Xbox One is a new console, I did expect fewer cars and tracks. I did realise that many didn’t like the fact that the Nurburgring wasn’t available at launch. If you play Gran Turismo, it’s different. Sure, there is over a thousand cars, and time/weather effects, but alot of those cars are Standard with blank and bland interiors, which has gained some controversy. Frame-rate stutters have been reported while it’s raining in the interior view, too. And, Gran Turismo 6 is last-gen. I would see something similar to Forza 5 if GT6 was released for the PS4. I still like Gran Turismo, as I do Forza. I’m just giving you perspective that you’re not alone with the controversies.

Think of FM4-to-FM5 as GT2-GT3. In both Forza 5 and Gran Turismo 3, the cars were rebuilt with better quality as a trade-off of fewer cars and tracks. Next-gen jumps can mean fewer content, after all.

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Good DLC for a good game = good.
Bad DLC for a bad game = bad.
Good DLC for a bad game = bad.
Bad DLC for a good game = bad.

_

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So black and white; subjective nonetheless.

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–edit–
nevermind.