Before I start this I want to clear some things up. No I am not trying to make a whishlist, no I am not trying to start a internet fight, and most importantly - I want a discussion and opinion from other players about the state the game is in.
So here we go…
I am asking this because I’ve seen a lot of comments on the forums about DLC cars mainly being recycled cars and hardly any new cars that are added are brand new to the franchise, and I know that Turn 10 has put in a lot of hard work and hours to make every car that is in the game as detailed and life like as possible. I know that the process of laser scanning cars can take weeks and even up to months to render the car into the game. Also some the comments about the lack of race tracks in a Motorsport game suggested that Forza 5 can use some more different race tracks . Well, from what I heard tracks that are laser scanned to details and errors within inches can take over 9 months and even up to a year to complete and added to the game.
So here’s the thing, would it have been better if Turn 10 delayed the game for 12 months and had the game released this fall to give them the extra time to laser scan cars and tracks to have a game delivered with more content rather than the “recycled content”? Would it have been better if they released the Beta version of the game with the Xbox One instead of releasing the full game and feeling like it was rushed with some of the main features from the previous games being missing?
I am a big Forza Motorsports fan and I love this game so much that it pains me to see hateful comments about the lack of content, even though to me the graphics and the satisfaction of racing cars that I will never get the chance to drive in my life makes up for it. But I feel like the game would be in a much better state if Turn 10 had delayed the game and had more time to work with the development of the game than it is today. With the extra year Turn 10 could have possibly add in the “recycled cars” that are found in the DLCs they released, and possibly have new DLCs packed with more cars that are new to the franchise.
I want to know what you guys and gals think about this and once again, I am discussing a controversial topic and do not wish to start a keyboard war on the forums.
Unfortunately it would never have happened, Microsoft wanted the jewel in their racing genre library out at launch with the console, in fact they were probably counting on it to help sell the console
I can tell you that is exactly the situation for me. I have Xbox 0ne for one and only one reason - and I have one and only one Xbox One game - FM5. I am glad that I have both - but at the same time, extremely disappointed in the diminished content from FM4 to FM5.
Unlike Don Ente, who I have a lot of respect for, I would rather not have had my friends split between the two consoles and versions, lost the whole team concept (mine - 204F had developed significant racing leagues and events and multiplayer meets) lost the incentive to paint and auction for profit, the opportunity to bargain shop in the auctions, lost the ability to perform more advanced searches for tunes, paints and decals. We all lamented some of the changes between each of the previous iterations - but in general - everyone stepped up and left the previous version behind and soon forgot about the differences. I would have been just as happy playing FM4 for another year and had FM5 be so overwhelmingly better than FM4 that everyone stepped up and moved to the new iteration and the new platform.
Next time you log on, check your online friends and count how many are playing FM4 vs how many are playing FM5. Mine are pretty much split in half.
Its a moot point but i suspect the original next gen timetable had launch pencilled in for 2014 but i think someone pressed the big red button early. I think the someone was Sony. This is all speculation by me but too much across both consoles and many games makes me think next gen was not quite ready for a launch last year.
The question seems to presume asking Turn 10 to work another 12 months without getting paid for it. And then there’s the question of what difference it makes between asking the developer to hold off for a year and accumulate more cars and tracks, vs asking the player to wait a year after release before starting to play. You’re still looking at the same amount of content either way.
I see where you’re coming from, what I meant was that instead of releasing it last year and have a lot of people being disappointed in the DLC and the amount of content. If they worked on it even just a few months more it would most likely cut the numbers of complaint in half.
Hard to say that they’re not getting payed. If the game was released with more content and more features it might attract more buyers and end up selling more. But it’s difficult to be sure about it because from some sources I saw that Sony caught Microsoft by surprise with the PS4 ready to launch last fall while Microsoft was planning on a 2014 Spring release, so Microsoft had to crank out their console and some of their launch title last minute to not let Sony have a 2-3 month lead and have the advantage over the holiday season.
Hmm with Turn 10 being on the Microsoft payroll I would imagine that they are still paid regardless of time it takes, a developer like Climax/Black Rock Studios as an old example would not have had that luxury so the importance to get their game out ASAP would have been a priority,
It boils down to it being a launch title and as has been stated it was yanked forward by a couple months due to Sony launch
Another year of development would almost assuredly have resulted in something at least more developed if not better.
That additional development time was simply never in the cards once FM5 was picked to be a launch title for the new console and its development schedule was set to culminate with the launch of the console.
Turn 10 is a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft Game Studios who is a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft. The decision on when to release FM5 was never Turn 10’s to make.
I dont think it would have mattered honestly, I think this is the product we were always going to get. They didnt delay the game and certainly didnt miss a beat with dlc I think they’ve done everything that they wanted to do on schedule. That’s what makes it even worse in my eyes because this game is a shell of what it should have been not even talking about car and track count. When Dan said he felt “out of touch” with the forza community he wasnt kidding. The faults in this game are rookie mistakes not ones made by a group of people who are up to their fifth iteration of a game over the past 10 years. I was really surprised at all the glitches and missing features in this game. These are the things that I think of when I think of quality, not graphics which is what they seem to care about. But the truth is beauty is only skin deep but ugly is to the bone and in my opinion forza 5 is a pretty game buts is missing all the things that made the forza motorsport franchise so popular. Hopefully their next game they can get back to the basics of what made past forzas so great.
And not everyone moved immediately from the original Xbox to the Xbox 360 or joined Xbox LIVE on the launch date. It just isn’t possible for some people, either financially or for other reasons. You can’t blamed the number of players immediately moving from one platform to another on the game. That’s an incorrect assumption.
Or, to compare something else - where a LOT of us started because nothing else was available yet - the original GT franchise, then the move to GT2 and a new console Did 100% of the players immediately grab everything available, or did some drop by the wayside either permanently or for several months? Nope. The result was a split in the players.
At least here, some of us still have the 360 which keeps previous versions of Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon alive, and some have both the One and FM5. We still have the Forza Community, unlike the GT series which only had “communities” created by the users.
. . . and thank you for pointing out my misuse - or your literal interpretation of “everyone” - My apology. I should have used majority or something similar. I do not apologize for sharing my opinion on the question posed…
I started my whole real-life on-track participation based on GT/PS and marched right through to GT6/PS3 - but that whole GTx experience - for me - was standalone - no community at all. Whereas, in addition to the individual gameplay in the FM series, there has always been a rich community aspect to FM. I bought an XBox 360 for the sole reason to play FM2 and have played all the iterations and made a lot of on-line friends that I actually got to the track in their lives too. LIke Outlier in a previous post stated - too many folks have not found enough motivation to spend money they might have because of the drop in content of FM5.
Personally, I have not yet purchased the xbox one and FM5. I pre-ordered it and paid it off but cancelled becuase of the low track count and race car count. There were a lot of disappointments so I decided to hold off until more content was released. In the mean time I picked up GT6 which has all it’s own problems. I’m an Xbox and Forza guy though. So after the Long Beach track release I thought it was time to buy in. I just sold my PS3 and will be picking up the Xbox one this month.
With that said, I don’t think Turn 10 should have waited and released next year. The Xbox one needed a premier launch title and turn 10 was already serveral years in development. The platform needed the game. Us racers needed a new Forza. (or a Forza prologue if you will) Turn 10 needed to start making money on the title.
I just wish Turn 10 could have added these older cars back in as free DLC. (I know they don’t work for free - but these cars will likely ALL be re-used for FM6 which means that this DLC is funding their development for FM6 - is that game going to be free?)
The cost side of getting the cars in the game could be viewed like an investment. Part of that is that it is a sizeable cost per car. If Forza went with the approach other games do that include licensed cars like GRID or NFS we could have 50 total cars in the game. But we get more. That means that a workable business model is one where the cost per car is spread over multiple games.
Dont get me wrong. I think we are spoiled. We are used to having a huge number of games and tracks from FM4. This car and track count was built over the years. on the new platform we don’t have that same luxury if Turn 10 started each car from scratch.
There is a flaw in your business model example though. I agree that we should pay for the cars again for each game release to spread the development cost out. But then shouldn’t the DLC content be relased for free? We bought the cars for FM5 and we are going to buy them cars again for FM6. Why then are we paying for them again between releases?
**I don’t actually think DLC should be free however, just making that argument. I know there is a cost to producting this content. But if we are going to fund future Forza content, I wish Turn 10 would add brand new content. They could use social media to have fans vote for what the community really wants. The fact that Turn 10 is adding a majority of content from past Forza games indicates to me that although they say they are starting from scratch, The are actually re-using at least some data from previous games saving themselves time and money. Can’t argue with the business model, but it feels a little dirty.
When gamers pay for a full game or dlc they are still only paying for a portion of the costs (in my theorised example ie it is what I think may be the case). I have studied cost recovery and although I don’t know Turn 10’s cost recovery model I can see elements that make me think that some costs are spread over multiple releases. In the cost recovery model it matters not whether it is a disc purchase or a dlc purchase - it is still just covering a portion.
I read you Satnite. I figured you would answer that the DLC cars were not included with FM5 so we never covered the costs of these cars with the initial $60 buy in. Either way, I 100% agree with you that the costs for cars and tracks are spread over multiple releases. Although game prices have not gone up with this generation, developer costs have - so not only will developers need to use this kind of cost recovery but they need to augment the base game cost with paid DLC to run in the black.
