FH5 has overly done car sounds that do not match with real life. They couldn’t even get the sound of Supra and Skyline correctly yet. Meanwhile if you look at crew motorfest, FH1, FH2, FM3, FM4 and FM6 even games like PGR, GRID, Assetto Corsa which are way older got the accurate and best sounds for the cars. In those games you will feel the burning passion and emotion setting a definitive character for the cars.
When devs decided to move on to more synthesized sound with overly done mixing and balancing thats where this huge downfall began in the sound department where cars sound like it was either recorded in bathtub, too much musical and trumpet-like, generic, it’s like the cars don’t have any personality at all. Such examples can be found in FH5 and FM2023.
That’s a big reason why FM7 and FH4 were looked down upon. The granular method allowed for a more realistic cockpit sound. 1 engine rotation sound grain allowed for some good cockpit audio, but the chase cam suffered big time. Also, digital programs are limited by bit, and sample rate, and hardware. The rev ranges for just about all of the cars in FM7 and FH4 were wrong where as the dyno method yielded more accurate results.
They were trying to compete with AC which has good cockpit audio, and it wasn’t received well because the chase cam was so horrid. In theory granular synth is a good strategy, but I don’t think technology is up to it replacing the older method yet.
Digital Audio is still a long ways away from analog. They’d need equipment way above 24 96k, and with programs that rendered in that sample rate range.
They just couldn’t figure out how to get good cockpit sounds and chase cam sounds, so they reverted back to their old ways.
I don’t need to hear this inside an Mac F1, just want to hear the smoother exhaust sound from the outside:
This is what Turn10 needs to do now which they did back in their golden forza days. I remember the explanation of how the sound design team(Mike Caviezel was in that team) achieved the car sounds for Forza Motorsport 4. I will put it here. @Speedster996@Rustic3851
Turn 10 identified sound as a cornerstone of the Forza experience, and that accuracy and excitement are key to that. The sound design team for Forza Motorsport 4 set out to make car audio “more visceral” than prior entries in the series. Sounds from over 500 cars were captured on a dyno in a Redmond, WA garage, using the same recording setup first used with the Bizarre Creations PGR games beginning in 2001. Fans of the game were also solicited to bring their own cars for recording. An 8 to 10 channel recording device captured sound from microphones at the engine, intake, and exhaust. High SPL mics were used on the loudest of cars, notably the Mazda 787B, to reduce distortion.
The audio channels were mixed, sliced, and recombined to span rev range. The sounds are then applied to the car physics model, applying DSP and filters based on how the car is driven. The team licensed a distortion effect, iZotope’s Trash plugin on FMOD, to achieve the “on the limit” feeling of sound distorting in your head. The sounds are then mixed with transmission and tire sounds, and finally the distance and environmental model to form the final soundtrack heard by the player. DSP also changes the sound of the car after engine upgrades, rather than swapping samples as was done in prior games.
Along with the physics team making a new tire physics model with data from Pirelli, the sound team added more granular tire sounds to differentiate skidding from braking, steering, or wheel spin. A Tesla Roadster was used to record the game’s tire sounds, due to its near-silent electric motor which allowed them to record the sounds cleanly without engine or exhaust noise. Two microphones were mounted to the car and pointed at the tire for recording. The tire model contains hundreds of sounds for each surface and varies dynamically depending on lateral and vertical load. This detailed tire feedback improved lap times among hardcore Forza drivers within Turn 10.
In Autovista mode, engine startups were recorded in 5.1 from the perspective of the driver’s head plus mics near the engine and exhaust.
iZotope plug ins are really something. Saved my butt on my final project (that was 10 years ago! Lol). Yeah DSP is good for effects (fx).
I think if they ran the cabin and engine mics through the granular synth program, and made those one mix, then using the intake and exhaust sound and made those another mix then it would be okay. The only problem is putting that theory into practice without running into timing issues.
If only they were as transparent as they were with FM4 and FH4. All I know about FM2023 is that we have ray traced audio combined with convolution reverb that runs on Dolby Atmos and Sony’s equivalent? At least let us in on why some cars sound like synth place holders this time around.
I like a good I4 too. It should be simple, but leave it to Forza to do Forza things these days.
Been a long time, right? As you see now, I have recently made two reports of inaccurate car sounds as they were added in Update 10. Reventon and CLK GTR. They sound completely wrong and awful. (the Reventon’s wrong sound is just like the Muricelago sound issue all over again, tbh).
And in some of yours, @Speedster996’s, and many others’ reports, I compare them with GT7’s engine sounds as Polyphony accurately recorded these cars to what they actually sound like in real life, which shows Turn 10 a hard lesson on what car sounds definitely are. Also, not only some of these cars sound wrong, but some of them have bad modeling too. So I also compare the bad car models in FM with GT7’s perfect, photorealistic, and extremely accurate car models. That also shows Turn 10 the hardest lesson on what car models really look like in Real life, considering that the real cars look NOTHING like the Forza car models from 2 decades ago. We’re not living in the X360 era anymore! We’re in the next-gen and everything should be all accurate, redone, and rebuilt!
In videos like this, You can see through the comments section about a group of people playing FM23 not caring about its engine sounds and uses it to defend it and attack Gran Turismo, in which I believe those people know nothing about cars. They lie and they don’t actually hear what real cars sound like and how car models look like. They’re deaf, blind, forgetful, and never knew anything wrong with FM. They just defend their broken game as usual. Hopefully this forums will definitely school those people by real fans who knows about the game’s problems since day 1.
Perhaps, this is a 100% new car in FM, the Evo III. GT7’s model detail to it is extremely unbeatable, while the one in FM had a few issues, which is the painted Wheel wells, lack of suspension model, and an overspinning wheel glitch when downshifting. Idk why new updates bring new issues as well, we all felt like “Unpaid beta testers” here.
I’ll keep an up to date on more of the cars’ sounds as if they were wrong, a report will be made instantly, with proof of their real life sounds done by doing a lot of research.
Oh and a bit of a bad news however, our buddy Lens007888 got banned for a decade recently. I don’t know what he did something wrong, but he just had his own reasons knowing about FM’s issues, especially those car sounds too. You can see through his profile about his ban time.
Awesome work, keep on doing the great work man. I was fed up when I checked the sounds of these cars I was like “Ahh sh**t, here we go again, another car another wrong sound”
Amazing work. Really appreciate all the hard work you are doing. Bad models, bad sounds are something we NEVER want in a racing game, cars with a character and personality is something we always look towards and thats where car sounds and model play a huge role in racing games. Hope turn10 does something in the upcoming updates. Because we cannot bear the frustrations any longer, and it’s time that we really want that “large audio initiative” updates for all the cars
Also if you have seen the posts above, the guy behind the amazing car sounds from Forza Motorsport 4, Mike Caviezel is back in Turn10. Thats a good news for us.
Yes, I saw it. Hopefully he’ll bring the car sounds back to peace, replace all the existing terrible sounds to more accurate ones.
And for the car models? 9 cars were confirmed to be remodeled already as their reports are closed and there might be a next batch of outdated car models being confirmed for a full major remake.
Thank you very much for your appreciation. I always do my best here.
All I want to add is that personally I don’t care if every car sounds ultra-realistic, as long as it is in the ball park (the right engine type for starters), but the least they can do is make the sounds pleasant and/or exciting, or in the least make it not ear grating. Of course this is completely subjective, but many FH5 sounds are really unbearable in chase cam, whilst the synthetic sounds in FH4 might have been off, at least they were an enhancement to the gaming experience.
I come from the era of NFS III and Colin McRae 2.0 (on PC), and after that I quit gaming, except for a short stint of TDU on PS2. I remember I enjoyed the sound of the McLaren F1 in TDU, even though it sounded nothing like the real thing.
Most cars in FH4 also had a nice scream, which may have been too high-pitched, but at least it made for good driving.
So my issue with FH5 sounds is not inaccuracy, it’s just very distorted sounding in the worst possible way (I like metal music, so I like distortion), it’s like every exhaust sound is clipped, maybe that’s related to the loudness thing people were talking about earlier. Whereas pleasant sounds (also from electric guitars) have triangle waves. Technically these triangle waves are not distortion because they are not clipped, but the harmonics associated with triangle waves give the appearance of distortion.
Another thing FH2 excels in is that the timbre changes with the rpm range, which is lost in the synthetic sounds where higher rpm just brings higher frequencies. The overrun (off-throttle) sounds in FH2 are also much better. Both aspects add a lot of realism, which I value more than accuracy, if you catch my drift.
The DTM is the CLK LM. Looks different but similarly identical.
CLK GTR is a V12, yes. But problem is - its engine sound is high-pitched and it lacks the Transmission whine noise, so I consider its sound tone wrong. It’s supposed to sound low-pitched just like its engine sound in Real life. Watch the real life sound video of it through my report.
Back before I knew how the Mac sounded, I fell in love with it’s sound in TDU for PSP. Turns out that they corrected it for the PSP port lol.
Your take on FH5 is interesting. People were furious at Mike Brown for FH4 especially when they learned he recorded the wrong gen viper for the newer viper, and the wrong Skyline for the Skyline GTR sound. Other than that, he did a good job of explaining the recording process. He started the copy pasta trend (MC12 Corsa, Apollo I.e., Laferrari) that people loathe. (It was actually FH3 IIRC the Centenario, and Aventador/SV sounded the same).
Personally I see the logic behind copy and paste especially if the only difference in the engine is the cams, and some sound deadening. Now when you get into crankshafts and headers then you’d have to re-record. All they have to do is EQ (sound deadening), and pitch shift (cams) the sound across different models to make them sound slightly different. A little more distortion for the models that have less sound deadening.
One thing that FM4 did really well was replicate a car accelerating under load. Cars now have no life when accelerating.
Interesting stuff, I think distortion is just noise isn’t it? It should be smoother than a triangle wave since it’s a natural phenomenon that occurs when you hear something very loud.
Oh my gosh dude! I was expecting at least FM 4 Auto Vista level in-game sounds for FM 23 but we really got the short end!
FM 4’s Auto Vista or “Forza Vista” has THE BEST car sounds I’ve ever heard in any game. I want those as the in-game sounds!!
If only we could get those realistic car startups back, you know. They’re incredibly stunning! FM4 is the Golden Forza Motorsport at its time! They just called it Autovista.
I think the distortion you are talking about is the ear distortion so to speak, that they tried to replicate with some software, I think it was mentioned in this thread. The distortion I’m talking about is strictly electronic.
Either way, I don’t know how the other game developers convert YouTube videos into car sounds, but in recent times there is some miraculous software that I think should also work for cars. The software takes a certain guitar tone/distortion from a song, for example Metallica’s Master of Puppets, and then you can play whatever on your guitar plugged into your computer, and it converts what you are playing on a random guitar and makes it sound like that Metallica song, and the tone is spot on. Then you can switch the algorithm to for example the tone from And Justice For All, and your same recording now sounds spot on like the tone from AJFA. It is just a matter of teaching the software to emulate the source. I wonder if they use similar software to capture the car audio from YouTube and convert it - which let’s be very clear is also synthesis - to the game engine sound. To make distinctions between analogue or digital or synthesized in this context is misleading, because as far as I know no game is just playing back recordings, that would sound even worse. The sound is always synthesized. That’s why granular synthesis is not the enemy.
FM 4’s car sounds were very organic and natural even though some people complained it distortion. They were fantastic IMO.
That’s the thing FM23 needs to get right: make the cars sound they are under load and give off that beautiful engine “vrrrrr” and exhaust rumble on coasting, off-throttle and deceleration. Dirt Rally 2 does that so well so does GRID 2019. Codies really know their game sound.
Also, I hate the fact that Forza doesn’t have unique exhaust pops, crackles and backfire or forced induction sounds for each car and instead they just slap on generic sounds. Ruins the immersion. Jag F-type e.g. neither does it sound right nor does it have those beautiful exhaust pops and crackles between shifts and while coasting. The LaFerrari doesn’t have its signature scream even though it sounded fine at launch. The FXX-K doesn’t have its screamier more high pitched sound which they had at launch and instead we have those horrible hollow and muted sounds for the modern V12 Ferraris following one of the updates.
It shows me the people working on the audio absolutely have little to no experience around cars or how to make car game audio sound convincing, and instead just experiment with different “options” hoping one of them will fit.
I hope this kind copying pasting gets binned for good.
Anyway, they really need to start focusing on the individual V8s and V12s for starters… As in, get all the Ford, Dodge, Pontiac, and Chevy V8s right, classic and modern, then move on to the Ferraris, Lambos… Then the inlines like the Porsche 911s…
I really want this game to leave GT in the dust. We have a GREAT physics engine and visuals are improving. We need to have real car audio. I will not accept anything less.
