On most tracks, its pretty obvious as to what will dirty a lap. However, there are some tracks where I still don’t know what is dirty and what isn’t. Just curious if its trial and error or if there is something that I am missing. For example, Top Gear tracks. Not really the main one, but the shorter ones. I hate all of the Top Gear tracks to begin with, but I am on a quest for points on Forzastats.com and those tracks have been really good for earning points. I can never remember which is which, but its the East, West, and the two reverse versions. I’m #41,#41,#42, and #61 on those 4 tracks in D class. I was running the one tonight trying to improve my ranking. At the last turn, there is a patch of grass that you need to go around. I’ve been watching all the top replays and everyone cuts that corner. Yet, there is no way to know what the limit is. I had a great lap going and finished in the low 34s, would have put me at #23 on the leaderboard, but I went too far when I cut the corner and the dirty lap indicator came on. From memory only, I did the same thing I always do and that all of the top players on the leaderboard do. There aren’t any lines or markers that I’m aware of, so how do you know what is dirty and what isn’t?
The Top Gear tracks aren’t the only ones, but they are the ones that come to mind the easiest for me. Some of the corners on Yas Marina are bizarre with the indicator coming on too. There are corners on those tracks where you can cut the curb entirely and not dirty your lap, but others seem like you just touch the curb and the lap goes dirty. I watched a replay of the leader on Yas and he cuts the one corner so bad that his entire car is on the outside of the curb, yet that’s not dirty? I found out the other day (from watching a replay of FTW Bassman) that you can ridiculously cut the final turn on two of the Yas Marina tracks. Its just really inconsistent and it makes it a little frustrating.
So, is there something I’m missing, or is it just a trial and error thing? Obviously, to go as fast as possible, I want to be right on the edge a lot. Its just hard to know where that edge is…
Knowing exactly how and where to cut is part of the art of leader-boarding. It’s much the same thing as taking the perfect line. The quickest drivers probe the edges of the track and watch each others replays. Frustration is all part of it. When you work that close to the limits you are bound to throw a lot of decerts in your effort to get away with the max possible, but then I’m sure you’ve worked that out already Lou.
watch the top ten times. they’ll show you where to cut and how much. its sad that knowing where and how much to cheat is what wins. there should be distinct white lines painted around every track, cross it and its dirty. i was suprised how far off track the leaders were going in the mechberg thing. keeping it on the track was a sure loss. its sad. dirty should be dirty everywhere or no where. its like wall riding.
If you ain’t cheating, your not trying" Lol… Racing always been about pushing the boundries, including the rules and using every inch of grey area. The only sad thing I is how bad T10 defines whats legal.
There is a HUD setting for the “Press Y to rewind notification” to show up which can help here as well (and unlike in FM4 there is no credit penalty for having turned on, as opposed to using it of course).
This or watching replays is probably your best bet to find that imaginary line. If you rewind past a corner and re-do it your lap will be dirty so the indicator will be visible. If you dirty another section it will flash so if it doesn’t flash it was clean.
I do agree there are multiple corners where the “dirty” line isn’t in the right spot and I’ve surprised myself a couple times thinking no way that was clean. One thing I find really odd is on the alps the “dirty” line is actually different on the exit of turn 1 when running the different forward versions of the track.
i disagree crunch. it’s glitching. is wall rideing alps cheating? sure i have the same wall available for riding but i wont. racing is a sport. one of the things that define a sport is a set of clearly defined rules and boundaries. tuneing is fair because everyone can see exactly where they are at, people know 99 is the limit and 00 is crossing the line. there is no guessing. people dont wonder if they can go to 01 or 02 and stay in class. people dont wonder if they have to stop at 96 or 97.
the rules may be the same for everyone but they are not clearly defined. its the clearly defined part that bugs me. off track with more than two wheels is the rule. its not enforced. its not consistent. either follow the rule or eliminate the rule. let people cut as much as they want without hitting anything or make them stay on the track. either would be consistent and fair. sometimes is not consistent. sometimes is not fair.
I think you’re taking it a bit too far. What I’m talking about is nowhere near the level of wall riding. Its not in the same ballpark. Going as far as the dirty lap indicator will allow shows an inconsistency in the game, but the indicator still determines what is “considered” fair for everyone. With the exception of the last corner on two of the Yas Marina tracks, I’m ok with it, just confused by the inconsistency of it. Now that I know its legal, I cut that corner on Yas now, but I still think its wrong. Same thing with that one turn on Spa at the top of the hill. It isn’t right, but the game allows it for everyone so its not cheating. Alps wall riding is just the ridiculous antics of those that have no clue what they are doing. You see people all the time in lobbies doing crazy things to win races. They aren’t governed by the indicator like you are when hot lapping. I for one don’t know how riding a wall makes you any faster. The wall still slows you down. If they took the time to learn how to race the course properly, they’d probably find their times are faster if they ran the lap clean. On Alps, while they are riding the wall, I’m on the other side of the track riding the curb. At the end of the turn, they are a good bit behind me. Often times the race is over for them at that point because they have collisions with other wall riders. That makes no sense at all to me. Cutting a corner that allows you to shave the better part of a full second off your time while still staying clean is a totally different thing.
Cutting corners without getting a penalty(or dirty lap) is apart of all racing, if you watch F1 they sometimes cut a corner and get away with it sometimes they get a drive through penalty, same with V8 Supercars, when they scrape the walls or collide they might get away with it. if anything it makes it realistic. With wall riding i think there should be some bollards there to stop it although i have done it myself same with yas marina although when you can just cut across.
bow what is the difference between getting a drive thru and not getting a drive thru? advancing your position, you can not pass. when is cutting a corner for a better time/ranking on the leaderboard not advancing position? they are cutting corners to pass people on the leaderbaord. it should always be illegal.
lou i am still of the opinion it should be obvious. you should be able to see going into the corner where the line not to cross is. there should be a better answer than “if the triangle comes up thats too far”. you shouldn’t have to ask on a message board, you should bee able to see it clearly in game. i was surprised how off spa was, i never would have guessed that. i always kept in between the lines and watching on twich someone went so wide they could have been passed on the inside by a car outside the lines. there are other places on spa where a red track liner is legal, but its has grass over it so you cant see it at speed.
and you dont get wall rideing because you haven’t tuned for it. you can basically turn the curves into straights, the bottom of the hill is the only place you have to let off the gas. imagine having zero aero car with no drag on a 7 mile straight with only 1 bend.
i’m not really blaming the players, i am blaming turn tens logic team. this should have never become a legit question, it should have been obvious from the beginning. its shoddy logic mapping.
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion but I think you should consider that, by making those statements, you’re essentially calling all the top drivers on the leaderboards cheaters and glitchers.
Is that really how you feel about everyone at the top of the leaderboards?
I don’t disagree with this - but I also don’t think it’s neccessary. Part of learning the game is learning the intricacies of each track. Whether that’s by trial and error (as it is today) or whether it’s by observing defined lines on the track doesn’t really matter. The people who learn the tracks better are going to be faster. Having lines on the track isn’t going to change this in any way.
I would like it to be more obvious… That’s was the premise of this thread afterall. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter what is considered legal and what isn’t. We all follow the same rules that are set by the game, it just takes some of us longer to figure out exactly what those rules are. I’m still very unsure in quite a few spots.
I don’t get wall riding because they always finish behind me. The wall still slows them down. The only time I see them on the whole course is on the first turn. They are all busy smashing into each other and I’m driving by just shaking my head. I might see them again if I lap them, but that’s it. I’m far from the best at this game and I really don’t ever recall losing to a wall rider on Alps. I’ve had my doors blown off on that course, but its always by guys who are running clean, or at least reasonably clean, laps. A couple of guys I race with fairly regularly (Snack 31 and GRD 4 3L) are both a LOT better than me on that course in D class. I get frustrated trying to keep up with them. Riding a wall is not going to accomplish that for me and I can’t see how it would for anyone.
Nobody will ever be on top of a leaderboard by wall riding. Figuring out just how far you can push the dirty lap parameters could get you there though. That turn on Yas moved me up by at least 30 spots on the LB. If I ride a wall, what’s it going to do for me other than dirty my lap for sure?
The thing is its part of racing and getting the fastest lap, in F1, V8’s definatley you will see dust kicked up here and there (happened lots at Winton this weekend) where they are using the inside (and outside) of the track to keep a little more speed through a corner, its part of racing
The only way to know is trial and error, you will do it enough that you will just remember how much you can get away with it just like getting a rhythm for a good lap
It is what it is. The boundries were a bit extreme in FM4 in some areas and sometimes penalties popped up for lines that were cleaner looking than the fastest line for no apparent reason.
It appears they turned back the extreme boundries to allow a little room for error. With exception to Yas I think the boundries are just fine.
And lou, its trial and error. Not every place you can run wide or slightly cut is the best line for whatever you are driving. You have to relearn the track for each tune/car. Past knowledge helps speed up the process though.
It would be nice if someone who was capable could do a track breakdown series either in a thread or even on youtube. I’m not talking about just where the parameters are but also where it’s most important to get on the gas early or brake early or carry speed etc. Basically what should be the focus of each corner entry and exit.
I’m a little surprised we don’t see it much during the community bounties or in the threads. I would do it but I know others are far more capable.
Any idea how much work that would take - the variations between classes, drive (FWD/RWD/MR, etc) and most importantly tuning and driving styles. For each combination of track, class, car, tune and driver ability alone has a significant impact on what is the right point for gas and brakes and what line to take.
