Hey all, was hoping someone could help me understand something that is really bugging me.
I’ve been chasing ghosts of friends that are ahead of me on the Yas Marina C class leaderboard. I’m hoping to pick up on something they are doing that I am not. One of the problems I am having is dirty laps on that track. I’m sure I’m far from alone there… Anyway, I’ve run as much as a full second faster than my leaderboard time, but only dirty. There are two turns that always seem to get me when I’m ahead of pace. Its the last two left turns on the course (3rd and 4th turns before the finish line). I assume its just me getting excited because I know I’m ahead of pace and I keep screwing those turns up by putting a tire over the curb and dirtying the lap.
However, while chasing one of my friends today, I saw him take the first of those left turns much worse than me and still stay clean. I put one tire out and the dirty lap indicator comes on. He literally puts three tires out on the same turn and the lap is still clean. I couldn’t believe it when I saw it and ran ten laps trying to duplicate exactly what he is doing there. All ten laps were dirty for me and I swear I did the identical thing as him. I don’t begrudge him, he’s just better than me. Yet, this is ridiculous…
Things to think about or compare between you and your friend:
Are any wheels airborne?
How many wheels are off the track or on the rumble strip? Yes count them.
Is there a different angle being taken?
Is the car bottoming out?
Edit: use chase car view to analyse as you can see more.
Definitely look for those things SatNiteEduardo pointed out. Previous Forza Motorsport courses (in particular: Camino Viejo, Sedona, Rally di Positano, Nurburgring GP) caused fits for hot lappers because of their undulating surfaces which caused vehicles to become airborne and to bottom out - both of which are penalties. Of course, what you perceive to be the same path may actually have you a few centimeters off course, causing you to invalidate your lap.
The one thing the Forza penalty system can’t be accused of is being unfair. The parameters for invalidation are the same for each and every driver.
I can’t say for sure if any of his wheels are airborne, but they don’t seem to be.
I counted the wheels. He has one wheel on the rumble strip and three wheels into the black outside of the strip. I have one wheel outside and three on the rumble, yet I’m dirty.
I made sure to follow as close to him (our times are very close, so I am right on his bumper) as I could and take the same angle. Anything is possible, but it sure seems the same to me.
My car is not bottoming and he is driving my tune, so I doubt his is either.
I am using chase view and just can’t figure it out…
I am pretty sure you are right in that we are all dealing with the same parameters and I am guilty of just missing something. This has me totally baffled though. I’ve ruined so many really good laps on that one corner its insane and have done so doing something that appears to be far less of an invalidation.
Maybe a sacrifice to the Forza gods is what’s needed?
You do realize that you’re talking to someone that took over ten years to learn how to get the clock on his VCR to stop blinking 12:00, right? If I can’t hit it with a hammer, it probably isn’t getting done…
I will give it a try, but I have no idea what I’m doing
My friend is #23. He’s the highest rank person driving the identical tune to me, so that’s why I am chasing him. SCH1WO got another of my tunes to #5 on the same track, but I can’t drive that version well enough to compete. He’s just way way way better than me, even if I am within 30 spots of him on the leaderboard.
Something to consider would be that until recently there was that bug where downloaded tunes wouldn’t apply front suspension settings. If the problem is that you are/aren’t getting airborne (or something similar) another undiscovered bug like that one could explain why you get different results with the same tune.
It’s a long shot, but probably any explanation will be for a strange problem like that.
I think the problem lies in your own explanation. A mistake in the last timing sector of any lap dirties the next lap. Your lap could have been completely clean but would be classed as dirty. Or is that your friend is using the ‘clean line’ cutting through the pit lane entrance? I was amazed when I watched one of the top leaderboard replays and saw the line that they took around the last bend LOL. It is anybodies guess what is clean following that line.
I think he is talking about turns 18 and 19. I can only comment using X class lines. In X class turn 18 does not need to be cut and if you exit that well and in preparation for 19 then 19 does not need to be cut either. But it all depends on the exit at 18 because if you come out of that without a wide exit then your entry to 19 is off and you need the cut at 19.
Thanks Eduardo, I see now. In fact I just watched the replay of #23 where turn 18 is cut a surprising amount. It could depend on where the cut begins or ends rather than the amount cut at the apex. The car definitely has both inside wheels fully off track at one point.
Lou, my first guess would be the angle you guys are exiting the corner. This drives me nuts sometimes, but the “out of bounds” seems wider through some parts of the corner (entry-to center). It is usually towards the end of the turn so if you are not coming back on the track at the same point this is where you might be getting dinged. Take a look at the location you guys are exiting the turn. Unfortunately, it is a guessing game on where the “dirty” line starts and stops but one thing we can say is it is the same for all of us.
As has been mentioned, it can come down to “catching air” or not. In FM4, as I recall, one particular turn at Positano was notorious for this - you had to be completely neutral throttle when going over the curbing. Accelerating or decelerating at all would cause the car to bounce and your lap would be dirty.
Angle also comes into play - at least, it appears so. Turn 10-A at Road Atlanta stands out in my mind.
Not necessarily the case here, but I wouldn’t count on replays being 100% accurate. For the most part, they are. I could be wrong, but I sure seem to remember watching Autocross replays, and seeing the barrels get hit - or not hit - when rewinding the replay. Now, that wouldn’t fully explain as large a discrepancy as you’re describing, but it could explain seeing the tires leave (or not leave) the ground. Something to keep in mind.
This won’t explain the dirty / not-dirty condition, but I’m going to offer a little commentary on working up the LeaderBoard at this particular track:
STOP NOW
I had grabbed your Kia setup and started chasing your ghost at this track. As I was running it, about all that was going through my mind was “Oh… it all comes down to knowing where you can cut the corners.” To me, getting really high up on the curbing and thinking “Woo Hoo - no dirty-lap flag!” is not what I enjoy about the game.
Stop now? What’s is wrong with you my good man? I can’t stop until I pass you and oo 3x oo on the leaderboard. I’ve accepted that I won’t be catching SCH1WO…
Its not exactly what I enjoy about the game either, but I’m kind of on a mission. I want that first top 25 and I know Yas is the track I can get it on. Of course, once I get the top 25, I probably won’t be satisfied until I hit the top 10 after that. I’m running dirty laps right now that will put me somewhere between 15 and 20. Just have to find a way to run those times AND stay clean… Not exactly easy on that track. I find that I either lock the brakes up and slow down too much, or get a little too careless and cause the dirty lap indicator to go on with almost every lap I run. I’m still getting used to the nonABS, so I know I will work the issue out like I have done with everything else so far. I’m a determined git, you know that
As to all the other stuff that you and others have said, I really don’t know what to say. The turn in question is #18 as Eduardo ( I would have never known that without the map, so thank you for that) pointed out. I’m about as thoroughly confused by it as you can get. I have tried very hard to duplicate exactly what oo 3X oo does on that turn and keep it clean, but just can’t. Ironically, I know I don’t really need to cut that corner to achieve my goals, it just has me so puzzled though.
I was able to get to #18 on Yas in D class with a 2:35.1. I just ran against my own ghost and blew it away with a time of 2:33.4. It would have been good for #6 on the leaderboard. Except one huge problem… The lap went dirty on turn 18 again for me. I don’t have the slightest clue as to why I was dirty either. I’ve watched lots of replays and many of them take that corner far worse than I just did. I couldn’t be more annoyed with this game and this track than I am at this moment. I may never get another shot at a top 10 again and a dirty lap indicator with a ridiculous hair trigger ruins it, yet cutting blatantly across pit row is allowed…
Lou I think I have your answer. I was just lapping here and accidentally cut there a few times.
It seems if you enter wide and are pointing more towards turn 19 when you cut it will be clean. If you enter narrow and are pointing more towards going straight it will get dirty.
