And THIS is supposed to be the fastest times on the leaderboards. (Track limits exploiting)

Sorry, but these people at the top of the leaderboards, yes maybe fast drivers, but when they are only putting in top times by cutting half the track, well it makes the leaderboards pointless all round, you have your diff problems in the lower classes, and corner cutters everywhere else. I give up on the leagues already as I am in pinnacle division and all anybody does is cut corners. Well suppose we can see how you got your places in divisions and leaderboards.

The pics below is from the Laguna super trofeo, and are of the time currently in 1st place on the board. all 3 were taking from the top of the corkscrew to the end of the lap. (more earlier as well) so how can these people claim to be the fastest on the game when they can not respect track limits.

Come on turn 10, at least if your going to fix the diff problems, fix the track limits as well as the people at the top of a lot of the the boards are not the fastest, just the biggest exploiters.

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They are driving within the limits provided to them by the developer.

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As I stated in my OP. :slight_smile:

It is one of things that needs to be looked at before any leaderboard wipe happens, yes some tracks you will naturally use more curb, or run off areas, but if this was to happen in motorsport, times would be invalidated, penalties given etc…

My worry is that people looking at the leaderboard videos willby default, look at the top 2-3 videos, the problem is then made worse as they see the “fastest” times doing this, so they will do this.

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It’s always been an issue, just use the same boundaries as they do, and then the playing field is level, it might not be realistic, but it’s a game, there is plenty of track architecture (mainly tyre walls) in FM that aren’t present in real life, so it’s already not a realistic representation of a particular track anyway.

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Rather the tire walls then the old sticky grass, I am a fast driver fella, can stick top 300 or better anywhere, but when that gap between me and top is pushing 3-4 seconds, and at least half of that is from corner cutting, it leaves a sour taste in your mouth. Generally now im looking more at my friends times then overall tmes, as I know the majority of them are clean drivers.

Have they stopped leaderboard times been recorded all together in career now, as I would build a car up throughout and improve it race to race from the pre race tuning menu. (only mods used is no rewind/real damage then usually an xp or credits boost. No performance enhancers as it would defeat the idea of tuning as you go???

Below is from ManteoMax’s game FAQs page. line 3 about times being void if you leave the track boundries.

Leaderboards
Leaderboards can be seen after race events and in the Time Attack sections of the Rivals menu. Every lap you complete in Free Play, Career (including practice laps), Rivals, and Multiplayer is compared to the leaderboard for that track and class and recorded to the leaderboard if it is your first lap or your fastest lap ever for that combo. If a lap time has used rewind, or made contact with a car or wall, or left the track boundaries, or been affected by drafting, or used Mods, it will be marked with a /!\ to indicate that the lap is uncertified, or ‘dirty.’ The leaderboards rank clean laps above dirty laps, which are ranked above laps that use Mods. You may find it difficult to get a clean lap with other cars on the track; to improve your leaderboard rank, use Rivals to race alone on the track. You can see the class/track leaderboards after every event in the post-race menu. Selecting a leaderboard time will allow you to watch a replay of that lap, and you can download the design and tuning setup used by the player if they are available (“Tuned by”).

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Any mods at all will invalidate your time. Kinda silly IMO, but at least it’s clear-cut. That’s why i burn all my mods on showcase or mid-class events - my times don’t really matter if i’m in a series that’s (oddly) limited to 650PI.

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That’s more realistic than you might think… temporary tire walls get set up all the time for different levels of racing or to place sponsor signage throughout an event. It does cut down some sight lines that you might have on the real tracks, but it’s far better than the sticky grass and sandtraps it replaced.

the top times on the LBs will always be set by the LB hunters who test track limits and find speed where (maybe) they shouldn’t, but that doesn’t make Rivals and LBs useless… i know i’ll never compete for top times because i don’t want to cut track and exploit the game, but i have a friends list full of fast people who drive clean, and we are constantly challenging each others rivals times. That’s one of the most fun aspects of the game for me.

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As those shots are from a Rivals Lap that’s simply the limit of where a “clean lap” is certifiable, can’t really blame the player for making the most of what is “legal”. He’s Playing to Win.

In a racing situation the general rule is that you must have at least 1 (normally 2) wheels within the white lines at all times. That’s not a “hard and fast” rule that is applied in-game however but rather more of a gentleman’s agreement. General sportingness, unless enforced by stewards as it is in club racing, pretty much doesn’t apply in Hoppers as we all know.

There’s not much you can do about it other than reporting the player and getting on with your day. If it’s widespread enough for you to consider quitting Hoppers altogether, I recommend you look up some racing leagues and sign up for a few events. I’ve done so in the past and it’s quite rewarding.

The pinnacle league lobbies is full of it as well, I remember the 1st B class league, the Pinnacle winner “element styles” i think he was called, never seen him do a clean lap yet. even in the ghost leagues. It has become a bit of a laughing stock for the so called “ELITE” in the game.

Im not into reporting every cheat on the game, otherwise I would never play haha, Just something when I couldnt understand why top of boards was still 3-4 seconds ahead of me. I could understand 1-2 seconds as I never put any real time into the event, but 4 seconds?? thats what made me look it up. Very well known name in the community as well.

I do sometimes take part in leagues (in fm5 helped run one of the best leagues around) but too busy at moment with moving house, young kid etc to have time for leagues at the minute.

@apoc cheers for letting me know that, just thourght it was weird that no performance enhancers and times were still dirty.

The above as well as the title of the thread seems to me you are doing much more talking about discrediting the people faster than you than talking about track limits.

Instead of this whole borderline naming and shaming your entire OP could have been, hey t10, whats up with the track limits? It is generally understood that more than 2 tires over the white line is considered dirty but in all 6 iterations of your game that isn’t the case, and made your point from there…instead you took the route i quoted above

I’m with dadiodude on this one, unless you’re #2 only because someone exploited the track limits and you chose not to then why should it matter? after all the rules are the same for everyone. In fact i currently hold a #2 and the only person ahead of me is in a mini. It doesn’t bother me because none of the fastest teams/drivers have hotlapped every track and i know that very #2 won’t be in the top 100 after they all do. That’s fine, eventually I will get around to hotlapping in LB cars and shoot for the legitimate top 50-150 that i’m capable of instead of deluding myself into thinking that the #1s and top 5’s that I currently hold mean i’m a legitimate top 10 driver that can compete with anyone.

as for the rest… Raul gets it, blame the creators not the participants. I swear some of you people would lose your mind if you found out that cheating in some fashion takes place at the highest levels in all sport, not just motorsport. This is after all just a game

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Your complaining about those pictures that you posted? First picture is still a validated lap, second picture should be an invalidated lap but isn’t, third picture is a validated lap. And put to perspective a lot of the top times on these tracks are from very fast drivers that WILL push the limits of a valid time and it takes more than a couple laps to get a good time using ALL of the track. Some tracks you can cut and the time will still be valid, which they should fix but won’t if its not significant. If the dirt played more of a role that person would not be doing that but since the dirt is not slowing the car down much its fair game.

eau rogue on SPA is the biggest corner cut, I made a thread for Forza 5 about it and of course you have people saying “well if the game allows it!” even when they had the event against a T10 member, he cut it so he would get a better time… T10 still hasn’t fixed it.

I was in an online race once where this guy flipped out when he decided to move over and he touched the tip of my car and he spun out blaming me. He said he was trying to have a good clean race. His buddy immediately took me out when he did a corner cut, they spent the entire race cutting a few obvious corners that you can on Yas.

Forza is a great Turn10 simulator.

I could see this being an issue for someone in second place and who is only beaten by a less than pristine lap but for most players the LBs are more about personal goals and friends. I’ll never post a top 10 time as I’m both not quick enough and I don’t drive the optimum car for the track so this would never even register on my radar. I’m sure in this respect that I’m Mr Average so like most it simply doesn’t bother me. In any event, track “boundaries” are usually at the discretion of the race director and it’s not uncommon to see some excessive use of run off in many events. If it’s allowed then it’s allowed.

It’s not a major issue for me, but it’s a small issue. I’m never going to be top 10 on the LB, but I try to drive legally and do like to have an idea how much more time is theoretically possible. It would be nice if the track limits were enforced.

I am talking about rivals and hot-lapping, racing online is a different story. People online will cut the track to win it’s a dead given, rivals though these people will push the limits of what is a valid lap and what isn’t. If people want to stay on the track as much as possible and not go off just a little to improve there time then they will not be up there on the boards. But for the people who want those times they will use every inch of the track and push there limits. You want an example? COTA in the tudor series is a great example to use. Those cars use so much run offs to get a decent time in qualifying and racing and not get penalized for it, use that in the game and you will get penalty. So people will find other corners in the game where they will test and see if they can get through it quicker. As long as two tires are still on the track including the rumble strips then the lap should be valid. Now in that second picture in the OP the time should be invalid but the other 2 should not.

These same people will still be top even if the boundaries were fixed. They’re fast regardless of what the layout is.

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Ok if this is true just race on the track roads then… Idk,do these track cutters etc feel that good about themselves being at the top after cutting the track… To me its not earned… But whatever,if it makes them feel good about themselves then so be it… Ill be racing the track as it was INTENDED…

Is not the point of racing to push the limits to the very extreme and get away with everything imaginable?

The below link is an article about all of the cheating methods in nascar alone.

This link is a link about some of the famous cheats in formula 1

I am sure i could go on and on and find information on pretty much every motorsport to date about how people bend the rules.

This to me is another one of those gray areas and is meant to be bent. Yes, I hotlap, and yes im usually somewhere near the top of the hardcore leaderboard and yes i do run the hot lap lines and push the boundries of the track. I do not however, push tyre walls out of the way etc to truly exploit a lap as some were doing in project cars.

Could t10 do a better job with track limits? Sure, and they have compared to some of the other forza’s. But right now we are all playing by the same rules even if the rules are no good.

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I’m so confused.

Isn’t the white line the edge of the legal race surface? If all 4 wheels cross the white line, that’s illegal. You’re leaving the track. All 3 of those pictures the car clearly on the other side of the white lines that mark the edge of the track. Curbs are safety devices, not drivable track. May racing officials frown upon driving on the curbs.

In order for a lap to be certified on the Forza leaderboards, there should be no caution symbol next to your laptime. Normally, if you go off the track (beyond the white lines) this caution symbol will show up and invalidate your lap.

What the OP is pointing out is that the sections he has photographed don’t do this “uncertification” and as such the lap is legal despite the driver cutting corners.