ForzaRC Feedback thread

Forza Racing Championship
Feedback thread

With the Season 3 finalists getting ready to head to the Porsche Cup at Le Mans, Turn 10 and Gfinity would like the community’s feedback to make the Forza Racing Championship even better. What did you like about the season? What would you like to see improved or added in either the format or broadcasts? Please feel free to post any and all ideas, broad or specific. The more structured and readable your comment, the more easily the organizers will be able to review it. Topics to consider include, but aren’t limited to:

  • Announcement details
  • Season length and timing
  • Competitive vs Casual
  • Qualifying methods and requirements
  • Regionals
  • Rivals vs Multiplayer vs Offline
  • Points method and Leaderboards
  • Penalties
  • Cars and tracks
  • Assists
  • Prize pool or types
  • Finals event location
  • Livestream content and times
  • and @ForzaRC info

For reference, take a look at the Season 3 livestreams and recaps:

Be sure to follow and for news and updates.

I Quote my other post, cheers

Cash prizes should be spread amongst all those that qualified and not only those who can attend the offline finals at Le Mans. Like I said in a previous thread I qualified but cannot attend due to being disabled and now ruled out of any chance of a prize. What should happen is a online race should be hosted by GInfinity for those unable to attend.

One last suggestion is the points system in Rivals. It was ridiculous that you got the same points whether you finished 51st or 200th.

I think the event has been a total shambles.

  • The event was designed without any apparent input from the community. On the day the website went live, and every time the format was tweaked or updated, every one of us could see and predict what problems were coming next, and we were right every time. If you had consulted the people who play the game (take anyone at random from the top 500 on any of your LBs and ask them) you would have avoided all these issues.

  • The last-minute changes to format, rules, and so on were so absurd it was almost as if you were trolling us.

  • Having a Rivals qualifier and a Race qualifier was a good move, but placing the Race route behind a Rivals event totally negated it.

  • A better format for the Race route qualification would be to run a series of Ghost races (on “good” tracks, so they don’t require any stewarding) to whittle the thousands of entrants down to a couple of hundred that can then take part in the main series.

  • There should be a 1-3 lap qualy session for each race in the main series. Leagues like TORA and ORL manage this just fine and it only takes a few minutes. Basing grid position on points already accumulated is idiotic.

  • If the finals are to be offline, then you need to announce sooner so that players can decide whether to continue trying to qualify.

  • If the finals are to be offline, then you need to pay for everyone who qualifies. If you only want to pay for 32 then run more online rounds until you reach 32. Inviting 108 but only paying for 32 is an awful system.

  • I have no opinion on the live streams, because I haven’t watched any of them. My interest in these events is directly related to my participation. If I have a good time trying to qualify then I will probably watch all the subsequent rounds even if I didn’t qualify. If I don’t participate then I have zero interest in watching. In this case I was put off participating early on, and so I lost all interest in what happened later.

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Good points. It was odd how races were structured via rivals but i do get why. They wanted the faster players able to make finals.

Initially there was going to be random lobbies whereby the results may have led to a lot of faster guys being stuck in one lobby and thus never earning enough points.

I’m ok with using rivals to allow some players to automatically qualify to the quarterfinals. Say the top 24 automatically make it to one of the quarters. Everyone else who wants to play take part in ghost lobbies for qualification and seeding. Depending on number of participants they can either race into quarterfinals or automatically get seeded into the various quarterfinals.

I like me a good feedback thread, so here goes:

  • Announcement details
    I didn’t like how short notice many of the announcements seemed to be, most notably the finals at Le Mans. Announcing this roughly a month before the event is simply not enough time for many players as it can often be difficult to obtain passports, save money for flights or book Annual Leave from work.

I regularly handle the announcements of international events for the Yu-Gi-Oh! TRADING CARD GAME and have found that if we announce an event 5-6 months in advance there are little to no issues. For example, here is an event we’re hosting in October, which we announced in May. We used to average 7-800 attendees when announcing 2 months in advance, but since announcing further out we have been getting over 1,000 players travelling to each event depending on the region, with places like Germany getting 15-1600.

Last-minute rule changes were also a very bad idea.

  • Season length and timing
    Weekly events seem just about right for Recreation Series, but on the whole I feel the series is over too fast, and is ending just as it starts to gain momentum amongst the community. I think the number of qualifier events is fine, but they happen in such quick succession that none of them really get their time in the spotlight.

  • Competitive vs Casual
    While this series has been touted as “the most inclusive eSports series in racing” the rewards and event structure are heavily skewed towards the competitive player. Even in the Recreation series, which is meant for “casual players” you get nothing unless you’re in the Top 25 and if you’re quick enough for Top 25 you may as well be competing in Elite anyway. I’m not saying that everybody needs a big prize, but something small like a free car in-game (similar to #Forzathon) would encourage people to take part every week in the Rivals at the very least.

  • Qualifying methods and requirements
    The series is too heavily focused on Rivals and single lap pace. Even in the Racing portion of Elite you need to be a Top 50 driver to get the opportunity to race in the first place. I would much rather see some sort of League system as exits in Forza Motorsport 6 already, but with a ranking system based on ELO rather than how many races one can take part in. Take the top-ranked drivers by ELO rating and have them take part in the Regionals.

  • Regionals
    Seems fine for the most part. I don’t like how the events are so heavily focused on sprint races however, and would much rather see a longer race with the potential for tyre wear, pitstops and strategy. A 20 lap race can be more interesting to watch than 2 10-lap races and could prevent a lot of Lap 1 incidents as drivers could think long-term.

  • Rivals vs Multiplayer vs Offline
    I think a greater emphasis needs to be placed on races with multiple cars rather than on Rivals. This is the Forza Racing Championship afterall.

  • Points method and Leaderboards
    No issues here other than the fact that the games do not have native Leaderboard API support which results in GFinity needing to update the boards manually. The long wait between when an event finishes and a leaderboard updates can be bothersome.

  • Penalties
    Track limit abuse needs to be more heavily enforced during streamed events. If the next game has a built-in penalty system this becomes less of an issue however.

  • Cars and tracks
    Understandable that Porsche cars would make up the entire selection. Track selection was fine too.
    Personally I’d rather see a full season in a single car (a race car like the Porsche 911 RSR) and allow tuning (but no upgrades). Drivers could then develop a relationship with their car, tweak it to their liking and drive with more confidence in the later stages. This results in cleaner, more confident racing and eventually very close competition. It also promotes collaboration amongst teams and players as they can share setup tips.

  • Assists
    No Racing Line was the best thing this series added to the mix. The players in the finals are elite players, and allowing them to rely on crutches diminishes the experience.
    Depending on the cars used in the next series, I’d suggest eliminating Traction Control and ABS as well.
    The other assists are fine the way they are.

  • Prize pool or types
    As mentioned above, something for players outside of the Finals or the Top 25 in recreation would be nice. Maybe extend the prize pool down to Top 100 players, and/or give out free in-game cars to all participants.

  • Finals event location
    Location is great, the lead time in announcing it however not so much.

  • Livestream content and times
    The streams are improving, and the content seems to be in a good place right now. The breaks between races are too long in my opinion however.

  • and @ForzaRC info
    I never felt a need to visit the website, and if I was competing in anything I’d just check the Gfinity leaderboards.

@ForzaRC was okay for publishing information, but I don’t think the account was ever used to respond to anybody about issues. Many people use Twitter as a Customer Service tool, and it was very difficult for people to get any of their questions answered as there was no definitive way to get in touch and expect a response. Take a look at @XboxSupport, that’s how it should be done.

I qualified for the grand final and was not able to make it due to the last minute nature of the announcement. In addition I stand to earn nothing for qualifying for the finals.

From that I can come up with a few suggestions:

  1. Announce finals location and how to qualify at least 2 months in advance. This will allow folks who think they have a decent chance to qualify to get their passports and cash ready. It will also allow folks to plan for the final so that they can ensure they can take leave from work and don’t set up plans to do other things.

Life can still get in the way, but with enough information up front, more people will likely be able to make it who live half a world away.

  1. If you qualify for grand finals, some sort of prize should be given. It takes a lot of time to qualify, so if you do, a prize would be great. By prize I mean something like $25 Xbox gift cards, swag bags, t-shirts or whatever promo items the sponsor wants to throw in.

In addition, other items to consider:

  1. Include more lower class cars in these competitions. So far it’s been pretty one-sided with mostly S class and up cars. There has yet to be any E or D class car chosen.

Reasoning is in the lower classes it’s easier to have super tight side by side battles on more tracks. A grand champion should show skill in every class of car.

  1. Track selection has been questionable. Why select tracks like brands hatch where passing is very difficult? Why not use tracks like Indy, Daytona 24 hour, Silverstone, homestead road courses, road America? These tracks promote side by side racing in most classes.

  2. Seeding of players in the races was pretty bad. In weekend 2, if you didn’t have any points from weekend #1, you were randomly assigned to lobbies. This resulted in one semi final that was way harder than the other. Basically in one semi final you had players who qualified top 6 in rivals in the random spots and another semi with mostly players who didn’t even qualify top 24 (some were way off pace) in the other semi.

In future races, when seeding players, 1st use season points and then 2nd use their position on rivals leaderboard. This will even out the semifinals better.

  1. Use Forza players as stewards. In the races I was in, there were folks who should have had time penalties for starting big wrecks from idiotic moves that were never penalized.

  2. For rivals, points awarded resulted in a ton of ties. In the future award a different point total for each position. So for the top 300, award a different point amount for each spot. This will help in determining the top 50 or 100 players.

Any tie will be broken by lowest total time from all events.

  1. Europe should be it’s own region or maybe have 1 region for France, 1 for the UK and 1 for the rest of Europe.

Africa, middle East, Asia, and oceanic could be one region until numbers increase.

  1. There should be more than 3 race weekends. I would think 5 or 6 points earning events are needed

I’m sure I can think of more but that’s it for now. I did like the two paths to qualify and did like the regions idea.

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overall, i had a blast doing this event!!!

  1. the lack of information… gotta do better
  2. peneltys. more info on this… what differs from a penelty to a warning?? one of the VIR races i did really bad, i was in last place and by myself, i got penelty., another race at sebring rwo ppl in front of me and got into each other causing one guy to slide into me making light contact and i got a penelty( i feel if anything i shoulda got a warning cause i did not cause it, i got caught up in it)
  3. more use of the slower classes, idk why we used the same cars tjat we already raced the week b4.
  4. I LOVED THE NO BRAKE LINE!!! alot of ppl didnt like this… maybe cuz they are lazy…idk. but i do know not having tjat line helped me put down faster laps.
  5. prizes… give us that made it but cant afford to go something. a t-shirt, FM7 code would be lit!!!
  6. would have been nice to see the leagues get in on this action somehow…

at the end of the day i had amazing time with this event and cant wait for more… i hope you guys get the bugs worked out for season 4

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So the finals took place this weekend, and it looks like a well-run event with some good driving. Congrats to those that made the finals and the overall winner (no spoilers incase people want to watch).

The thing that stood out to me however was just how little awareness of this event there was across the Forza communities I visit:

  • GTPlanet didn’t have any active threads about the ForzaRC, and the news article with stream links has no comments at he time of writing this post.
  • Nothing showed up on Reddit except for a single clip of a driver getting pushed off the track.
  • This forum has been dead all weekend except for some Forza Motorsport 7 discussions.

The streams themselves seemed active, although the viewing figures across multiple streams only added up to around 4000 viewers. That seems very low for an event that was pushed hard by Xbox and had a prize pool of $100,000. I don’t think I saw Le Mans tweeting about it either, and you’d expect at least a casual mention since it’s part of their official eSports category.

Is virtual racing just not that much of a draw to get big viewing figures? Maybe people prefer to watch “real” racing, but it seemed that awareness of the Finals was very low in my opinion.

I know, and I feel bad about that, I wanted to post a thread on the Road to Le Mans before the weekend but I ran out of time, and from the moment I went to the airport to the time the weekend ended we were go-go-go-snooze-go the entire time. I want to work on getting the forum more active (and get posts on here regularly).

If you could pass on 2 suggestions to whoever develops the forum these might help:

  • The ability to embed YouTube videos.
  • The ability to tag other users in posts, so that they get a notification.

GTPlanet does both of these and they work well.

Probably since it was going on at the same time as actual 24 Hours of Le Mans, some potential viewers are probably not gonna watch. As the sport grows more people will naturally watch I think, especially when it isn’t conflicting with an actual prestigious race.

Yea I thought this was odd too. I forgot about it and missed a lot of it. No banner on the Xbox either.

I think it’s good that many people watched with virtually no marketing. To me i think Mixer helped a lot. This stream was #1 stream throughout the event

I’ve also watched it thanks to Mixer.

And it was really fun! Congratulations for those involved!

Not sure if this is the best place to post. After participating somewhat in season 3 I really think moving forward there should be a split competition. Controller users and Wheel users. There are handicaps on either sides and placing both in the same category is unfair. Much the same as a FPS being played by controller or KB+Mouse. Hopefully this is something which can be considered.

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I agree with you, I hope you really consider it. There is a great niche for steering wheel users.

Definitely the right place, thanks for the suggestion!

Keep them coming everyone :).

Hey everyone!

Quick update: Gfinity was at T10 this past week to work on all things #ForzaRC and we’re all super excited.

Keep the ideas coming!

Thanks :slight_smile:

I mentioned it in my feedback post already but one thing I’d like to see in the future is the addition of tuning.

Spec racing can be fine, but it can also be “pot luck” as some cars will not suit certain drivers no matter how they drive them. Allowing tuning (but no upgrades) would let drivers make their cars more comfortable to drive, which lets them spend more time on racing than on making sure their car is controllable in the first place. Comfortable cars produce cleaner racing, not just at the elite level but amongst the lower skilled players as well.

A second thing I’d like to see, although it requires a lot of work, is to allow multiple types of car to take part in each race. Careful research and a strict, mandatory upgrade set would need to be required for each car in order to ensure they are balanced but by having multiple car types on-track you get more exciting racing as some cars will be stronger on the straights and others in the corners.

Can’t say I agree PJ. That will defeat the very purpose of SPEC racing and close some doors of lesser tuners or those not in clubs sharing tunes. Won’t it just take us back to “you’re faster cause you can tune” argument ?