ForzaRC Feedback thread

Maybe I don’t want to see spec racing :wink:

I agree that certain players will have more knowledge than others, but at the same time this could also encourage more players to get involved in the community, talk with one another and (hopefully) start a few threads on the forums. The Forza community’s good at helping one another with various aspects of the game and allowing tuning would tap into that.

To limit the effect of tuning & upgrades I would say that anything that can be tuned on the standard car is fair game, but no additional upgrades can be made. There are often lobby/Rivals restrictions that can facilitate this. For road cars this means you can only change tyre pressures, but for race cars you’d get the full package.

For sake of this thread’s purpose and your proposal, I don’t want to trigger debate as there are other threads around for that. It’s just that recent racing series / competitions of lesser status than FRC showed that whilst some of the great community tuners are quite open to share tunes and knowledge [like WORM, JSR, PTG guys and others], it becomes difficult to find any [if at all] once money, prizes or status become up for grabs [even some ghosts becomes unavailable then LOL], Perhaps rightly so that tuners should benefit, but then tuning might open a few doors, but at the same time closes it for others. Anyway, I’ll stand at that - just trust that whatever is best for the bigger community will prevail.

Since season 3 at Le Mans I’ve had a lot of ideas which I think could help the Forza RC. As both a spectator and a racer, I sense there’s a lot of potential when you have Microsoft, GFinity, and community members like Evan working together on the FRC.

Overall, I think the platform for competition is great on forza, especially on the new title. There isn’t really another game which provides as close and competitive racing as Forza, and the level of competition is undoubtedly there. While there were many things in S3 I liked, there’s also elements that need improvement.

Let’s start with a few things I think could use adjustments:
Strategy - The one thing our races are missing is strategy. During the FRC S3, the races were a very simple point A to point B sprint. While this provided urgency, the races lacked the dynamic required to keep the audience engaged. In the F1 esports earlier this year, drivers had to make one pit stop, which created a lot of drama and suspense while providing the commentators something new to analyze during the race. This element of motorsport could be added to the FRC with the inclusion of a simple quick stop, which may make the races much more captivating to spectate

Drafting - In my experience in other titles, the draft is a key element in overtaking and strategy during a race. In a recent championship I competed in on iRacing, drivers would be making 2-3 overtakes a lap due to draft. I think it’s disappointing that the draft is so ineffective on Forza because it forces drivers to make desperate and sometimes questionable overtakes. If the effect of draft when following a driver was more pronounced, I believe we’d see closer races across the board. While most races in Season 3 were basically an 8 lap procession, having an effective draft would make it impossible to run away from the drivers behind, keeping the field tighter together and ultimately making a more exciting race.

Additionally, there were many things I liked about Season 3, which I hope are here to stay:
Race Length - The lap counts at Le Mans were pretty much perfect. Races should remain within the 12-15 minute margin. The races were just long enough to make some progress while still being quick enough to keep the audience engaged for the duration of the race.

Assists - No. Braking. Line. I’ll admit, I complained about this at first, but I definitely regret that. Forcing off the line undoubtedly improved the quality of racing, and it also silences some of the criticism from the sim racing community about the validity of the Forza esports scene.

Car Selection - As someone who loathed the slow and unresponsive production cars in Season 1, 2, and he S3 qualifiers, the car list we used at Le Mans was exactly what was needed to take racing to the next level. Hopefully we see more race-car focused carlists in Season 4

Tracks - I think each season of the Forza RC should be held to 6-7 tracks total, which is roughly the amount we had in the Season 3 final. With the braking line forced off, it does take a little longer to learn the tracks, and I think it would be unfair to have an extensive track list for such an event as it alienates some of our competitors who may not have as much free time as I do to practice :wink:

Furthermore, I’d like to touch on my thoughts regarding the event structure and overall format of the FRC.

Regions - I think splitting things into regions was great. Going to the finals with the mentality of “NA versus EU” is a big deal in other esports, and that extra competitiveness is certainly welcome in an event like the Forza Racing Championship

Races - In season 3 the races were a “path” that could be taken to finals, but weren’t required to qualify. I think for season 4, they should either be mandatory or they should not exist at all. To draw a connection to other esports, the RLCS does weekly “league play” to qualify for the LAN: This is ultimately a 4 week tournament style structure which is regionally based, in which the top competitors from each region qualify for finals. This would work perfectly for forza as long as the amount of qualifiers per each region is reasonable (Since places like Australia or Asia don’t have the same competitive scene that we see in NA or EMEA). If I may suggest, we could use weekly regional leaderboards as seeding for the races, and then use the races as the actual qualifying path for the finals.

Race structure - Based on the improvements in season 3, I hope 1v1’s are a thing of the past. Just like Le Mans, each race should be a grid of 12-16 drivers with a certain amount of the field transferring to the next round(s).

Finally, I’d just like to make a few suggestions regarding the broadcast and the overall production of the event. Though I understand my opinion on this stuff is probably not that important, I figure it’s worth a shot XD

After seeing what GFinity did with the F1 esports events earlier this year, I’m hopeful that future FRC events will rival that production quality.

Commentary - I think it would go a long way to bring in one established commentator from real-world motorsport to sit alongside our current broadcast team. The F1 event featured commentary from Karun Chandhok and Davide Valsecchi, which added some familiarity to the races. In my humble opinion, part of making sim racing esports accessible to the general motorsport fan is to not make it feel like they’re watching something artificial: having commentary from the same professionals we associate with real-world racing will create a level of immersion in our rather new form of motorsport.

Stream Length and Time Usage - During the season 3 finals, friends and family members alike brought up the length of the event in a negative light. I feel like future events need to be more condensed and action packed in order to ensure that the audience doesn’t become disinterested or bored of the broadcast. Knowing that it’s next to impossible to speed up the adjudication process, I think we need to both reduce the number of races per broadcast and restructure the way time is spent off track. I have held the feeling that there isn’t enough emphasis placed on the drivers in our events. Off track time needs to be spent analyzing what happened during races and mentioning who did what, rather than simply discussing basic items like track difficulty and the obvious storylines. Driver interviews which are relevant to the previous race would also be fantastic, and ultimately may add a lot to the appeal of the event.

Stream Pauses - This point is related to my previous one, but one thing I really liked about Season 3 were the mini commercials. Hopefully this is continued into season 4 with an even more diverse selection of commercials to play over the course of the event.

On Track Action - With the esports update pending, Forza really needs an improved spectate mode: with better camera angles and more informative on-screen graphics. Others have elaborated on this necessity enough already, so I won’t dwell on it. But it’s imperative that FRC broadcasts move away from the chase cam, and instead use trackside camera angles as used in sim racing events on F1 2017, iRacing, etc. With so much stuff happening at once, viewers miss far to much action when locked in the confines of a chase cam.

In Game Gear - Just a small side note, but I think it would be great for FRC finalists to get some form of driver gear or in-game emblem so that other gamers can recognize us in the community. Team suits would be a bonus as well and would look great on the broadcasts!

I truly hope my perspective is helpful…I could go on-and-on but I felt that these points were the most relevant. The success of the FRC is really important for the progression of Forza and racing esports in general, so I’m very passionate about this topic. Can’t wait to see what’s planned for season 4! :slight_smile:

First of all, happy new year! Looking forward to seeing what 2018 brings for the FRC. Secondly, thank you for hosting the previous seasons of FRC, but also for soliciting feedback from the community! And lastly, thanks for short introduction videos to more of the FRC participants at Le Mans, it was great to see faces I wasn’t familiar with and get to know them a little better! I’d like to take the opportunity to look at the bigger picture of the Forza community and ask Turn 10 and their co-organizers to seek to answer this question: how can the Forza Racing Championship be a tool for bringing the Forza community closer together?

I’ll touch on three aspects related to the Forza community, hopefully they’ll spur some thoughts and ideas for how future FRCs, as well as the Forza community in general, can be designed/managed.

The first aspect is how disjoint the Forza community is. This is partly technological, the community exists centered around this website, it exists on the Xbox platform, and it exists inside the game itself. The community is arguably socially disjoint as well, there’s at least one community on this forum, several Forza-related websites/forums, perhaps particularly those of race teams[1]. We have seen similar issues related to the FRC: it has a tournament website separate from, instead of being incorporated into, the Forza website; race streams are on Mixer and Twitch, but not on YouTube (and why not get to the point where you’ll get an in-game prompt about the upcoming FRC and have your Xbox set to notify you when the FRC streams are online?); and there is limited FRC-related content in-game or on Xbox. There are multiple ways one could work towards tighter technical integration such as: the FRC website can be a part of fm.net; clubs can be reflected in-game; teams can design their own racing suits; there can be FRC/fm.net-related APIs for reuse of content. Similarly, one could look for more socially oriented changes: having team spaces on the fm.net forums; profile teams or racers and then link back to their team space; have community liaisons to bridge FRC/fm.net with other communities.

The second aspect is how much tacit knowledge there is around Forza. Becoming a part of the Forza community is partly a process of learning where to find answers, and it might be rather cumbersome to find that answer. There’s this forum, which is best searched through Google/Bing; for stats there’s ManteoMax’ site; for car pictures/stats there’s Kudosprime; there’s a bunch of YouTube videos if you know who produces good quality content; there’s at least one subreddit; and there’s a wiki. If you’re looking for a tune it helps to know who’s good at that, and so on and so forth. Can the FRC be used to help document some of this knowledge, thereby enabling more players to figure out how to improve their skills and participate in the competition, and at the same time produce valuable long-lasting content about Forza?

The third aspect is the balance between competition and collaboration. Or perhaps I’m talking about balancing handing out prizes to the winners with awarding those who participate with other kinds of motivations. Maybe have one or more competitions on the side, such as pair racing teaming a veteran with a newcomer and taking their average score, or look into ways of awarding those who improve. The Bounty Hunter events can be seen as a great way to look to improve ones driving skills, can the FRC help racers improve both their driving and racing skills (e.g. prizes to those who avoid contact)? There could also be awards for social activities, e.g. helping people learn to tune or drive, doing race marshalling duty, maybe helping out answering questions on the forums.

I understand that I’m making some suggestions for substantial (costly) changes, but then again, none of this will happen is nobody asks these questions :slight_smile:

Footnotes:

  • It’s worth noting that the game does not have a concept of “team” or “club”. As far as I know it used to, but it has since been taken out. Xbox now has clubs, but that does not reflect in-game in any way. Where it could be an integrated feature, it instead becomes something separate.
  • I just added this footnote so the other footnote wouldn’t be lonely.
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When does the series start

Now that Series 1 is complete, here are a couple of thoughts about next year’s FRC. First one about sprint races, then one about the audience.

Throughout Series 1, race length has been fairly short. This seemed to lead to high entertainment value during the finals, as stakes were high and incidents occurred more frequently than one might expect. This was fun, and there’s nothing wrong that! At the same time, once this year’s season is over, we’ll have learned who the fastest Forza racers are in short races. Is it time to lengthen the races for next year? Add in the challenge of tire wear and fuel, meaning pit stops are required, and see how the top drivers handle figuring that out as well as dealing with being required to keep their focus for a longer period of time (e.g. 45 minutes to an hour)? I’m not trying to claim that the Forza RC finals aren’t tiring, there’s a lot of races during those days, but it might be a different kind of tiring. I think it would be interesting to have the top drivers battling it out in longer races.

Secondly, should the Forza RC playoffs (e.g. the series finals as well as the grand final) have a live audience? Something to consider, the round of applause that the top three got at the end there was a bit disappointing.

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