Forza Monthly livestream July 17

Try the same track with the Renault R.S. 17? I know that that car on unbeatable has a couple extra HP on the straight for some reason.

Edit: Point being the AI won’t have to cheat to keep up with you. It will mimic the fastest drivers in the game by taking better lines to keep up instead of getting a power boost on a straight to keep up. The new AI seems to be veteran level. It was using all of the track, it was smoother, faster than FM7’s AI which had to cheat to keep up, and in some cases obliterate you on a straight which was complained about with the new formula one car. I’m sure it’s a still a Sunday drive in an RB19 to someone who’s at the top, but for the rest of us it should be a challenge.

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With no drag or Drift that pretty much confirms tag and all the light hearted, breather stuff is gone. It’s been getting gutted game by game but this is still sad. I hope they have something different at least.

No, controllers are faster in FM7.

This was always the major gripe of wheel users in that despite using a proper simrig you could not compete with controller users at the same skill level. On controller, you just turn and it will automatically put your steering at the max angle grip will allow, wheel users have to find it and maintain it manually, hence you could never corner as fast as a practiced controller user. The contoller aids are too strong.

And as others already pointed out, rubber banding.

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i watched the gameplay a couple hours ago and skipped over Chris talking, guess i didn’t miss a lot. I don’t believe the side by side of the Ai comparison, simply because it seems too good to be true. need to see how the AI drives with a full field of cars.

The tire segment was neat though and explains why some tracks in 7 were so inconsistent. I really am looking forward to playing this game for myself, it looks like its going to keep me occupied for a while.

Just tried that. Same issues with following the suggested line, just faster and with a car horribly unsuited for the track. Also, the game liked starting me on the pole and usually the race was (surprisingly realistically) over by the first corner, because they lifted and I knew I didn’t have to. Even tried failboating the start a few times. They’re programmed to lift when the suggested line says lift, even when you can take the corner at 190+. If you ask me, the AI’s been deliberately gimped in this game so as not to discourage lower-skilled players.

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Just got done analyzing my lap/race in FM7 vs the AI in FM ‘23. Noticed the Mazda has a higher trap speed by about 6 mph over the Mazda in FM7 on the straights in the side by side comparison.

The cars definitely have a power boost on unbeatable in FM7, but they nullify that power boost by breaking in sections taken flat out. FM ‘23 didn’t lift through the high speed sections, it looked way less jerky than the side by side, and the AI I raced against.

There’s definitely cheating going on though, I raced in the other Mazda in P2 class and it was 10 mph slower on the straights than the same car the AI was using. Also, being the slower car in the corners I was only able to put down a 1:22 with it and the AI’s fastest lap dropped to the 1:25’s. It’s weird because I caught everyone way sooner with the B09 because of the straight line speed I guess. I too put down a 1:19.7 in the B12, and a 1:19.8 during the race with AI 2-3 seconds back.

Definitely could understand why I got blasted by the Renault F1 at Sebring in the same car. It looks like T10 listened and attempted to fix it. We’ll see.

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Having had to do some camera work before, that is an exceptionally salient point to bring up.

Anyone knows what track is it?

My brain tries to convince me it’s Nordschleife :sweat_smile:

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After watching the latest Forza Monthly, there is finally reason for optimism beyond a shadow of a doubt. Now hear me out everyone.

There was good reason to be skeptical on every front with Forza, mainly due to our past experiences with T10, and their direction ostensibly away from their namesake “Motorsports.”

For a very long time T10 had it in their heads that Forza needed to be something more than simply about racing. That Forza could be about anything to do with automotive pursuits. The thinking was to try to touch on every aspect of motorsports and its enthusiasts everywhere, and then call it “car culture.”

Noble as this thought was, it inherently degenerated the game into something far afield of its original intent and attraction, i.e., racing. Lost was the idea that it [motorsport] was primarily at the top where higher degrees of admiration and adulation are sourced. It is from this extremely high peak that everything else about motorsports descends from. Make this your focus, and everything that everyone enjoys about the sport is naturally enhanced. From watching the pros, to local racing, to merchandise, to products, to increasing the number of fans and competitors alike. It all comes from a love of competition first and foremost.

It is a part of our genetics to want to compete ever since the first men took to the first foot race… It is at the core of our breeding and being. And in the big picture losers are just as essential as winners. Water it down, dilute the ferver, give everyone a trophy or no trophy at all, and you have killed the very essence of what makes the endeavor so great in the first place.

I’m happy to see that T10 is on a new path in this regard. It appears they finally realize that the fundamental point of Forza is to race. I feel like saying welcome to the club T10, we’ve been here for awhile. It’s now clear that T10 is shifting gears toward a more meaningful and competitive racing environment perhaps for the first time in franchise history.

Back in FM1 it was extremely competitive, much more so than today, but it was not on purpose. T10 hardly knew exactly what they were doing at the time and just let communities develop on their own and do their own thing. The result was (unforeseen by T10) a massive shift toward ever insane levels of extreme competition first with hot lapping and then public lobby racing, from which league racing like here at the IFCA would eventually emerge.

I’m not saying they will bring that level of competitive spirit back, but it is good that they have made a U-turn to try to get some of it back. Based on the examples given we can safely say the cars handle better and are actually faster than in FM7. Tires are playing a huge role too this time with hard, medium, soft compounds in addition to stock, street, sport, and slicks. Also the addition of an authentic specialty tire for olders cars. Then there is the improved engine and tire sounds with tracks that actually have atmosphere that effects the performance and look too.

Bottom line, even if Forza Motorsports only had 1 or 2 improvements over FM7, it would be worthy of purchase for the devoted. Imagine a slightly better looking, slightly better feeling, slightly better sounding FM7. Would you buy it? Of course you would! Because FM7 isn’t all that bad to begin with. Give FM7 an across the board upgrade as they have done with “FM8”, and there is no reason not to want it.

So while we all were maybe expecting something more revolutionary, what we are getting is something more evolutionary instead. But that’s okay. Nobody hates Porsche for continually upgrading one of the winningest cars ever made, the legendary 911, for the past 60 years. But, just don’t say it’s, “new from the ground up.”

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so last night i decided to try the car/track combo Chris used in the AI video. granted im out of practice from not playing for a couple months and i drive stock tune/upgrade, but i managed 1:18.7 after a few laps, now im even more convinced the FM7 Ai was not on unbeatable, but its ok with me if it wasnt.

Each game is just different enough to have to adjust to the new physics and I am going to do the same with the next game. I am just hoping that more grip points means faster lap times in the long run. can’t wait to find out.

I think people are obsessing over the lap times a bit much, though yeah, it did look like a massive gap on the video so people are testing it.

The point is, the new AI did a super fast lap smoothly and cleanly that will be legitimately competitive with the best drivers, not relying on artifical buffs to do so.

The old AI drove terribly, and you could see that in the video, all these janky inputs of a robot AI, and would rely on artifical power and grip buffs to keep them in range of a player.

That’s the point they were trying to make and where the comparison should end. The AI will now give you an honest run for your money and if you beat them it’s because you out drove them fair and square. You won’t drive the wheels off your car, using every inch ofnthe track just to have them buff power past you or near you down a straight.

We haven’t driven the new physics so we don’t know what it takes to deliver that kind of lap time so a simple comparison of raw time is meaningless. Better physics doesn’t mean faster.

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Well, that should have been presented more honestly, especially since people could go out and verify parts of that. “Our new AI is six seconds faster around Track X than the old AI” would have had just as much impact as this 13 or 14-second gap we did get shown. Actually, the impact would have been greater because this would have been checked and would have lined up with FM7’s current experience, and this would be significantly less of a thing. Instead, we’ve got this big number and, regardless of whatever cheats and buffs anyone wants to talk about, things aren’t lining up, and that brings on questions that could have been avoided easily had anyone had the good sense to say, “You know, someone’s going to boot up FM7 and check this.”

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No offense to current hosts but I think it’s a bit disingenuous to the players especially of FM to not have someone well versed in racing. They do a great job for Horizon but can we please get a racing enthusiast as a host for the Motorsport game.

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That is not what that word means. That is not even remotely close to what that word means.

…Have you seen the state of AAA gaming lately? The last three or four years, particularly? It’s not going well, and the racing genre has had it particularly harder than most others, especially if you’re on console because there is no iRacing or Automobilista or even an Asseto Corsa experience that matches the PC version. Instead, you’ve got bunches of half-hearted efforts made clearly to force people into live-service multiplayer-centric forever grinds - or in the case of Motorsport Games, shovelware made solely to retain possession of rights and licenses that will never serve anyone but that company’s shareholders in a satisfactory fashion. Even the best efforts that stand far above the rest have flaws that cannot be ignored and keep the games from being their best, and only one dev team seems to be taking active measures to fix their flaws - although, in true Polyphony Digital fashion, it’s going to take a good long while for things to come about.

I don’t want a AAA game anymore. I want better. Much better. And so far, what I’m seeing does not give me hope that is what’s coming in October. Jaded? Perhaps. Fringe? I doubt that. Don’t like it? Deal with it. Or go back to GTPlanet.

My concerns too.

If you create unrealistic tracktion for a car you can do any laptime improvement, kind of.

  • it says nothing to me
  • but good if best drivers still get competition of course

How AI behaves as a group is vital, will it feel realistic in how one leave room for the other, in general or when about to overtake.

  • so much focus on lines for ai
  • when in a group of cars just one or two can make a perfect line anyway
  • the rest must give way for each other
  • really hard thing to do, good AI

I revisited sept 2022 Forza Monthly and what Greenawalt said:

  • beginning 2023 we start polishing phase
  • ok so delay 6 month, but now should be all polishing left
  • and from Esaki statements now I got the feeling they still work on features, which is not polishing, that is development
  • I saw no activity on tire indicator at speedometer either

I would like really big tire indicator with temperatures in sections like on ACC and PC2. The symbol on hud looked more like to indicate damage on suspension and such.

  • hope there is a lot of choice for hud options and how and where we get it
  • from depot visit you get cold tires, and need to know when you can give full blast

This indicates to me, it will might released rather unfinished.

  • so much left to do
  • but better with some features lacking, and get polished game what is there
  • no crashes, all settings work flawlessly, the smaller details fixed
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I think the biggest tell thus far in that direction has been the disclosure of the lack of drag and drift modes at launch. Lack of a drag racing mode is not very excusable, and even less so when there are assets that will be in the game at launch geared towards drag racing. No drift mode, however, is especially egregious. That has always been a change of HUD (it wasn’t until FM7 that drift parts were added to cars’ upgrade inventories). If you were so bold, you could turn that on in the middle of any race you choose. That…that is a gimme, to be blunt.

Couple that with the quiet removal of cars from the list (including cars that have been advertised in promotional material up to this point), and the picture’s being painted for yet another typical AAA game launch.

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Turn10 is at the mercy of every specific manufacturer with regard to vehicle licenses. So changes to the car list speak more to me that their negotiations are still on-going and not a deliberate attempt to take anything away from players.

I would give this greater weight if Horizon’s Festival Playlist didn’t exist. That concept - which Turn 10 has dabbled with before in FM7 - has been realized. This is a Day 1 Game Pass game from Microsoft, who is all about Player Engagement.

Why wouldn’t they do it?

I think it is better to do less well, than to press more into the game that will make many things broken.

  • so appreciate this honesty

When all the physics is fine tuned after release to millions of gamers they will probably appear those other disciplines too.

I’ll even accept less cars, who needs 500 cars in the first couple of months anyway.

Polish the core game as far as possible and continue after release of course, but with added features too.

I told the story before about how I came into PS3, 360 and Xbox One a couple of years after launch. I’ve been spoiled with mature console OS and games too.

  • I don’t remember a single incident

When I got Series X last fall, I never saw so many crashes out to home screen before.

  • what I hate the most and just kills the fun

I will see if I might buy game early and just follow how updates are coming, rather than go play so much.

  • after 5 updates or so starting to game more