Yeah something is up with the loading times of races. Noticeably slower.
For me the AI is the same as it was in Horizon 4.
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Feels like horizon 4 and horizon 5’s AI is the same.
Horizon 3’s also pretty similar. You still get these really crazy AI drivers in s1,s2 that take corners with insane speeds. Rain still doesnt affect them, nor heavy snow. Neither if their car is rwd. And in HW they can outdrive you every single time if your car is underpowered. But at least there is some fighting for positions.
Compared to h4 and h5 where its almost always super easy to knock down the first few positions especially in lower classes. And fighting over positions is almost not a thing. Unless youre driving a stock car
At least thats how i view it
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Looks like this is the most voted Topic in Gameplay.
Let’s hope PGG is aware of this and will do something.
Its been like this to varying degrees for as long as I can remember, at least since Horizon 2.
This should be one of PGG top priorities moving forward, if not the main priority even at the end of FH5’s life cycle.
It’s a core function of the game that is literally broken, and it has caused many players to quit the game out of anger & frustration. I am one of those players.
The AI (Drivatars) do not race under the same rules as players. It’s given more grip, down force, horse power and isn’t effected by the elements like water, rain, wind or snow. It cheats, to put it bluntly.
It cheats in order to be “competitive”, but this is unfair competition by default. This non-competitive foundation is only exacerbated by serve rubber banding that allows AI vehicles to literally catch up to players who are miles ahead of it, and then rocket past them with no hope of the players ever catching up.
There is nothing more frustrating than when players compete in a long endurance race like The Goliath, or Colossus, have made no mistakes (no rewind), but the AI that’s trailing them gets a sudden boost of speed out of nowhere (severe rubber banding), passes them, and disappears into the distance to win the race. There is nothing fair, or competitive about this type of scenario, but it happens far too often in FH5, where the end game for many is long endurance races where players can earn the maximum amount of Credits and XP. Once again, this happens at ALL difficulty levels from Tourist to Unbeatable.
Another common occurrence is when there are one, two or three AI who break away from the player and the rest of the pack and go so fast, nobody can catch up with them until the race is over.
These “Runaway Drivatars” can post lap times in excess of 10 seconds ahead of the player at the end of the race, well outside any realistic time trial data. During the race, the gap between them and the player on the mini-map can be unrealistically large and demoralizing, causing people to quit the game and never come back.
These anomalies occur at ALL difficulty levels, both online and offline. They occur in single player and co-op in the Trial, Seasonal Championships, and the normal campaign races.
There are countless pieces of empirical evidence to support these claims such as screenshots, video captures and leader board times.
There is even a thread on this very forum with 1057 posts that details users frustrating experiences with the AI at all levels of difficulty titled “Drivatar Difficulty and Behavior”.
It was started shortly after the game launched, 16 months ago. Nothing has been done to address, or even acknowledge these issues exist, so player count continues to dwindle as many have lost faith in PGG, and the Forza brand as a whole.
I hope moving forward, PGG takes the broken AI seriously and allocates the resources necessary to investigate and fix any issues they find because the current AI is just not fun to race against. If the racing in a racing game is not fun, it means a core function is broken. This is not acceptable in a big budget series like Forza, we all paid hard earned money for, some of us in excess of $100 USD, for the Premium Edition.
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I’ve found the runaway drivatar happens worst in Highly Skilled difficulty. Sometimes restarting the race fixes it but not always. The dirt race down the western side of the volcano in particular has it in nearly every race I play.
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me2, I would still do the weekly playlist championships because racing never gets old. But with that given AI it isn’t much fun.
I hope in FH6 and in the upcoming Motorsport we a get a real AI like the new AI in GT7…
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I couldn’t stand playing the Seasonal (Weekly) Championships because they were the most frustrating, annoying “chore” I had to do each week because the AI is so broken at this level (and at all levels).
What is even sadder is a poster commented earlier how even the statistics don’t lie that a vast majority of what’s left of the game’s population A) Can’t win against the broken AI, or B) Have just given up trying because it’s not fun to race against and a complete waste of their time.
The worst part is PGG tried to monopolize our most precious asset… Time… With their invasive Live Service model that not only relied on recycled content, but that locked the cars the community actually wants behind these frustrating and annoying chore lists in the hopes of increasing player engagement numbers via juvenile FOMO.
Well, as the statistics prove, it backfired and the player count continues to dwindle, and rightfully so.
The Sophy AI in GT7 makes the AI (Drivatars) in Forza look like a complete and utter joke. Sophy is not perfect, but Sony and Polyphony Digital are putting their money where their mouths are and trying to advance racing game AI in real and tangible ways. Now, T10 has even more pressure on them going into Forza Motorsport… That’s a good thing… And I hope they can deliver.
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They wont. The idea of playing a new Forza game with significant changes and improvements where it actually matters is hilariously naive. The closest thing we got to real problems being fixed is the Audio systems in Horizon 5, An issue thats plagued the series for like 7 years. And now they’re bulletpointing that same system in the new Motorsport like thats what they spent the past six years on.
They can only ever iterate on the graphics engine and slight tweaks to the driving model. The Fifa of racing games. Even F1 has made more innovative changes in the time of this Era of Forza from FM5 to FH5.
AI should be fair, sure, but it needs to be CHALLENGING. If AI is too easy then what’s even the point of it? This makes races boring. I hope the Unbeatable AI won’t get overall nerfed but instead made consistent across different scenarios.
Inconsistency seems to be a big issue here, not necessarily the difficulty. One race the AI might be impossible to beat, then in another race on another track and car combo on the same Unbeatable difficulty it’s like it’s barely even trying.
I love exciting races where I have to battle AI back and forth for position, where I win because I deserved it after a hard-fought race. not because I picked the track or type of car in which they are just slower or the game just allowed me to win.
I think that’s what should be the goal - making a system where players of all skill levels, from beginners to e-sport level racing aliens should have a competitive experience with AI.
The AI in FH5 is just plain awful. I think the AI for each successive game has gotten worse and worse. Not in straight up difficulty, but in quality. In FH4 I noticed they really liked to ram you off the road, block overtakes and at times I would literally watch them steer AWAY from the corner just to hit you. In FH5 they just straight up cheat with a different physics system to what we as players have to abide by.
As what PiotrGT 4 hours before me said, it’s also inconsistent as hell. The week just gone for example, I literally could not do the showcase or the cross country championship (came 2nd in the showcase while trying my hardest), yet for the Formentor championship, I was the only car NOT using Forza aero, and yet I mopped the floor with the competition for all three races.
That cross country championship also showcases a major issue in OP cars, in this case, the Extreme E are impossible to beat when an AI is behind the wheel. I tried with a top of A class car with great all around stats, Extreme E was faster everywhere. I then tried again at mid A class which is where the Extreme E sits at stock level, exact same story. Tried one car at bottom of A class, Extreme E was STILL There at middle of class. That car needs a serious rebalance or an AI blacklist.
And that raises one further point I have. In ALL previous Forza games I’ve played, the AI in single player scales to your level, barely any scaling happens in FH5, there might be some your level, but there’ll be just as many at much higher level than yours, couple that with AI cars having better acceleration, better top speed, better handling and not getting slowed down by landing jumps, hitting obstacles and going through water all in one package makes the races unfair and not at all fun to participate in.
Another point that was raised is that I’m not simply wanting AI to be a pushover, I just want them to be at my level. As a wheel user, I race at a highly skilled level when comparing older titles. At this level, I can consistently win, but it’s also a nice little battle to get there. If I lose, it’s my own doing, but the same level on FH5 is half the time insultingly hard and the other half insultingly easy.
I don’t know what more I can add at this point, so… So long and thanks for all the fish
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Does the assists you have on make a difference, I play with a fair few, but especially for seasonal championships I just pick a light car download a tune for the class and win fairly easily, like this weeks I just got the opel manta 400 got an a 800 tune and i won every race easy, however I do play auto with abs and racing line. Wondered if that made a difference.
Edit: thats for the rally good time championship
Leading Ai a mile or 2 ahead after few corners, in a short 3-4 minute race on highly skilled.
If you restart a seasonal championship race several times, the leading ai gets faster and faster each time, and in the end, it will be miles ahead halfway though the 3-4 minute race, on highly skilled, i was right from the start, by not doing the seasonal championships, because of the hyperfast ai, but today i am only 1 percent away from 50 % series completion, so i wanted to try it for once, but several restarts of the first championship race later, the ai was miles ahead at my last attempt.
Guess i have to wait for the daily challenges instead…
This did not happen in FH4, in that game i could beat the ai in almost all championships on highly skilled, not so in FH5…
c’mon, the AI is pretty easy to beat at highly skilled. The only time I struggle is when it’s S2 class. In these events I load my own lower rated tunes as this slows the AI down e.g. S2 901 rather than S2 998. Since the game launched I have completed all weeks and months at 100% completion. If I can do it, anyone can.
Rather than restart try rewinding if you stuff up. Having a decent tune helps a lot as well.
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The problem is when the AI goes bonkers and gets times 3-4 seconds faster than your clean laps and fastest time over several restarts. Then it poses a broken unwinnable challenge not meant for the chosen difficulty bracket. It’s a wildly inconsistent system that hasn’t worked well across several games and franchises with the developer doubling down on something that wasn’t ready nor, as it seems, fixable. Result being the obliteration of any affection I held for the games that used it. I didn’t quit FH5 because of boredom, just the utter distaste of the state of the AI.
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You perhaps done all these championships in convoy mode ?
Since the ai is proven to be alot slower when racing in a convoy than when racing in solo mode, thats why it looks so easy for many youtube content creators, who race in a convoy, its simply slower ai that makes the difference compared to solo mode.
Ai is is broken in solo mode, but sadly pgg won`t fix it…
It’s not just Unbeatable though, across all difficulties rubberbanding to player is stronger contributor to AIs overall speed than difficulty or what car they drive is. Did bunch of test races where the slowest AI in race where I smoked them all was still faster than the fastest AI in same race, where I stayed out of podium position on purpose.
Difficulty is one thing, but the bigest issue is how uniformed AI’s driving it makes. Every race will go down pretty much same no matter what I or AIs drive.
I didn’t realise how bad it is until I started playing FH4 again, and lo and behold, choice of car actually matters. I took out Abarth 124, ultra-light RWD A class build, and right off gate it outlaunched most of much heavier competitors, like it should, moving me right away to 6th place. Last lap was battle for 1st place between me and '66 GT40, where I would gain ground trailbraking corners while GT would rocket away in straights. Exactly like it should. Did plenty more races then in different cars and conclusion was same: AI racing pattern depends on car they drive.
In FH5 it doesn’t really matter what car AI drives, every race goes down same, with AI outlaunching player, then “tortoise” team blocking corners, then getting past 3 mid-rank AIs, and at 80% catching up to “bunny” AI that suddenly starts slowing down in corners.
Also recently I noticed “tortoise” AIs in coop keep crashing into traffic or each other, which I’m guessing is them trying to block, but getting confused by multiple players, since it doesn’t happen in SP.
I understand at this point AI might be a hairball code, hard to fix without breaking more, and dev team probably waits for FM8 AI to build FH6 AI on it, but even bringing back AI from previous games would be a considerable improvement. And if it’s too weak/too strong in FH5 physics, well, that’s what difficulty settings are for exactly.
If the AI delivers as they’ve promoised for Forza Motorsport then i’d expect this coming to the next horizon game… I remember here on the forums i think or somewhere a community manager saying something like this and im paraphrasing it:
" Well you wanted more difficult AI , we made it more difficult , now you’re saying its way too powerful, so we tuned it down "
I think what Chris Asaki explained with the changes for the motorsport AI speaks perfectly for itself about what the problem is and why players are complaining about it. And its not a matter of turn the dial down a little or turn it up some more and hey look they’re still complaining so there’s no way of pleasing them… There were some inherent issues with it that needed to be reworked.
Of course the horizon AI i suspect will be tuned down a bit since this game is meant to be an arcade racer but it will be light years away from what it is right now. And i’ll definitely be checking out motorsport to see how it holds
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I believe the drivatars need to be reset or something. It seems that they have become very aggressive and have learned pit maneuvers and other dirty racing techniques from offline players ramming drivatars. Please reset them if possible. They’re really dirty and take you out every chance possible. Thanks!!
The AI legit cheats and ignores the physics of the game, its not a matter of tuning up or down, because this AI dont got no intelligence to get LOWER or HIGHER, BETTER or WORSE. they just use cheats (ignoring physics) to make up for this lack of intelligence. They never worked on the AI, just took a shortcut. stop being this naive and treating their mistakes like its a good thing, giving them excuses and pats on the back, because this is the FIFTH game in the series, Its about time these basic systems got some LEGIT rework.
And completely revamping the AI for the Motorsport “from the ground up” reboot and getting rid of AI cheats is the bare minimum for a game that claims to be the best Motorsport to date.
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