Anyone else notice that the drivatars are much more difficult?? That’s fine but they are doing impossible things. Just had a race where 3 drivatars finished the race while all of the human players weren’t even halfway through the race! haha
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The AI is always tougher in Cross Country events. But yeah I’ve seen Driveatars do impossible things.
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I once did a race where after 2 seconds after the race started, all of the drivatars teleported to the end of the race. That was a couple months after the game launched.
I don’t think this is a new problem.
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That’s something I also observed. I did the Goliath fast, did a mistake in the last corner, got overtaken by a crashatar. Did it again, drove relaxed, all AIs were around 30s slower than before.
I’m driving in Forza since FM4 and FH since FH1. My TIER list of FH games is:
FH3
FH2
FH1
FH4
FH5
FH5 could have been the best, if they didn’t mess up the AI so much. This takes out so much fun of the game, it is unbearable. In FH2 I was driving on unbeatable and won consistently with ease. Now I’m driving on tourist, because otherwise it isn’t fun any more. Because of FH4 I was hesitant to go to FH5.
The problem is: The game is already out for some time and it would be rather easy to fix it.
- First of all, the reference time for the human driver is the human time minus 4s at least, rather 7s. Depending on the start position. This is the time humans need to come into first place. The game would benefit A LOT, if it wouldn’t be practically mandatory to win. Like it is the case in ProjectCars 1/2 or Dirt Rally. Make it only 10% CR-bonus dependent, if someone finishes first. Human needs to finish better than last 3 = Mission accomplished = 90% of the credits.
- AI must ALWAYS prioritize stability over ideal line. I had this in FH4 already, that the AI was pushing me. Giving just a little bit in caused the AI to lose control over the car and disappear in the mirror.
- AI MUST NOT try to push or crash other cars
- If the AI is not in the near rendering range of the player, it goes to crashable obstacles like air. As soon as the AI leaves the near rendering range, it must be punished with a 3-5% slowdown handicap to account for the obstacles, which slow me, the human player down. This is very important in cross country events. I’m forced to close up to the first place close enough at the very beginning, otherwise I don’t stand a chance.
I don’t think, a developer reads this, but if a developer reads this: These are easy fixes and improve a lot.
Also some absurd Forzathon missions like the Nova69-Basejump were bogus. If I need more than three attempts for anything in Forza while having a good car and clean and fast driving, the mission is not fun any more. In FH4 I did 80-90% of the missions at first try. The Volvo missions were fine. Clean driving with a good car, done.
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I hadn’t noticed anything so far but today this happend in the first race of a Tour.
The joke is that this DaVinci only had a PI of 850. At least on paper.
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The drivatars are probably my biggest criticism of Forza games.
Lately I’ve been getting irritated all over again by them. In one of my custom races there’s a straightaway section and every time, regardless of what class or vehicles I’m racing against, every AI ahead of me accelerates at the exact same pace. There could be three wildly different vehicles up there but they all have the same copy/paste performance.
Not like this is anything new as anyone could see since the game launched and you get an unbroken conga line of drivatars all crossing the finish, evenly spaced bumper to bumper placement driving the exact same line.
This doesn’t even begin to touch the ‘rogue drivatars’ which can never be caught up to, the matter of them not being hindered by the environment if they’re too far away from you, the constant bullying of players and having zero situational awareness, randomly hitting the brakes or going into reverse at the starting line, etc.
It feels like they’re getting worse with each Horizon game released. This whole system is in dire need of replacement, it holds these games back and makes for an awful racing experience.
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Looking at the trend from FH4 onward, the racing experience is the last thing on their mind.
They’d rather turn the whole game into Fortnite. Why spend resources making the AI better when you’re just going to forcefeed open matchmaking and take away single player options anyways?
Single player/friends only racing is dying, and it’s sad to see and is really suffocating the genre as a whole. It’s why I’m so forgiving of EA WRC in spite of the fact that it looks worse than DR2.0, runs worse, and still can’t play Monte Carlo without CTD. By all rights I should be panning the game as an unmitigated disaster and dragging EA and Codemasters through the mud, but it does one thing that all other modern racing games completely ignore. It has single player racing endgame. It has friends only racing endgame. And that’s alongside seasonal content, instead of replaced by seasonal content. I’m willing to put up and be patient with all of the rest of the problems because it’s one of the only modern racing games that doesn’t have it’s head up where the sun doesn’t shine when it comes to fundamental game design.
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Ugh, it’s most unfortunate but you’re absolutely right.
Calling it out and hoping for the best seems all that any of us can do but I’m never going to hold my breath.
Recently gotten back into the truck sim games just for the sense of exploration and having a massive world to drive around in. No pressure, hardly any timed exclusives and it’s all minor stuff with something like a month to earn them, do what you want to do, and an ever expanding road network to enjoy.
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Have done at least the trial 20 odd times and not once have the group won; came here and saw this; explains a lot
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I think that’s more just insanely bad luck with you consistently getting what must be woeful teammates.
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Agreed. I’ve ran it at least 5 times and haven’t lost yet
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I’m not sure. I am sure however, that the difficulty of the trial is not unbeatable. The difficulty deviates significantly from the single player unbeatable. It seems to be also dependent on the skills of the drivers. It looks like it pairs one drivatar with one player. Performance points and skill/difficulty.
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The trial is most definitely not unbeatable. I practice on unbeatable…and it’s more like expert of right below. Unbeatable last week would of been even worse…especially for tomorrows race. I am kind of looking forward to not practicing on unbeatable after this week. I decided to save myself the headache of whole packs of AI blocking the road and taking off to the point you need drags on any track to keep up lol.
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Can’t say I agree with discounting someone’s experience.
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Would like to chime in with something on this that also show that the AI just does not follow the same rules as the player from the ground up.
Using the Raesr Tachyon (or however its spelled) you can set up a race where you can have an X-999 class Hypercar in A class (This car is faster than it is in X class due to quirks of the car). In this race, the AI are using cars that cannot under any circumstances be raced by the player in A class, and more importantly, are just as fast as the Raesr, despite having the A class rating.
This means that the AI:
- Do not follow the upgrade system at all
- Match performance to the players car
- Do not follow the real PI system which guages car performance (i.e. the A-800 we see here is not the A-800 we see on our cars that shows a value relative to the predicted performance by the AI, but instead is just a number meant to fill the games requirement to have a PI class)
This may seem like an abstract example that means nothing, “of course they have to bodge a grid, Hypercars in A-800 isnt possible, what do you want them to do?”, but if this is how the AI work here, what does that mean for another race with normal cars? if I am limited to 500hp in a car but have different tyres to make up the PI, are the AI just slapping on 900hp in the same car and using mud tyres to “bring the PI down”? what about weight, if the lowest I can get a car is 2,100lbs, can the AI go to 1,500?
it would be nice if the AI was limited by the same restrictions we as the players have, and if this is somehow a fallback mechanism where the classes are impossible for them to make and thus isnt representative of the other races we play, the fallback should instead be to copy the exact tune from the player in the same way as other players can rent the hosts car in multiplayer races.
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So, if I understand this correctly: The Raesr has a rating of A770, but is as fast as (or faster than) X999, right? So, you are basically racing an X-class against A. Still you are not dominating the race. Is this correct?
I have to ask, as it is a bit confusing.
Not only that, but the cars the AI is bringing to the event cannot possibly be tuned down to 800.
It’s proof that the AI doesn’t follow the same rules that the player does, and solid evidence that the AI cheats.
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Yes, I am not domminating and the AI are using cars that cannot exist in that class showing that they just do not follow the upgrading rules that we do
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you dont have to use the Razor to prove that, VERY old bug. Setup a BP Anything goes, Custom track, Bring any S2 998 car, and watch, 99 out 100 half the AI will bring 70’s Land Rovers, and 83 Golf GTI, all tuned to S2 998, and behaving like you would imagine an 1983 Volkswagen would with 2,5 million Horsepower.
OR… waaaay back we actually had an event, S2 998, Collectors, Street scene, and the AI would show up in all the old Vintage racers, be on rails, while doing mach 2.
And thats before we get into the track/PI/Car type combos, where the AI can and will set top 15 World rivals times, in a race, in the rain, on ‘Expert’ no even unbeatable.
But you know, they said they were working on it, 4,5 years ago when i sent a ticket on the very same thing in FH4, so aaaaaany day now i expect a fix…
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They have them new fangled flux capacitors.