Indeed. FFB in this game is worst FFB implementation ever. I use G27 on PC. Go and check how it’s done in Gran Turismo 6 or in Assetto Corsa and implement that to Horizon 3 and we are good to go.
Quick Tip.
When powering on the wheel (Fanatec at least) I noticed a difference in the FFB when turning on the Xbox before the wheel compared to powering on my Wheel and allowing it to wake my Xbox.
Overall feedback is much better by powering on the wheel first and allowing it to power on my Xbox. I noticed this in other racing games as well like PCars and Dirt.
Just a thought here as I have been going on about forza ffb being horrendous for a while. Could it be that it is isn’t so much the ffb being bad (even though it is) but a large part of the reason they cant get the ffb right is there is something fundementally wrong with the physics which don’t allow a wheel to properly communicate with the game. Wheel receives bad or inverse information, wheel returns bad information? There will be no fix for these issues and if anything it definitely will not come as a patch, as dust to death said its going to require a rewrite which they don’t care to do. I thought if anything they were going to try it for apex and going to use apex as a testing ground being as how its a permanent beta that was used just to see if cross play is possible. Well we can all go back in our hole now and wait to see if forza 7 brings a new ffb engine.
Edit: Also you would think with the money these studios are making and with ms backing that they could afford to hire someone who actually knows what they are doing with ffb. I know its not perfect but its lightyears ahead of any forza title but surely T10 could afford to coax david tucker, Iracings ffb engineer, out of his position there and into a t10 desk for the right money. Just saying there are people with experience out there that are working for much smaller companies, surely they would leave for the right dollar figures.
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The FFB model was worked on for forza Apex on PC, its this version that is used for Horizon 3. the issue is that the car/track physics model is developed in a way that the FFB values coming from the physics model is not good enough so they need to write the FFB model on top, mostly fake effects to try and make it feel as it should in real life (which it doesn’t!).
ALL Forza titles are developed in a way for visuals and controller players, its 95%+ of the player base, so the FFB is always an after thought developed on top.
with Assetto Corsa, they developed the car/track physics with ffb in mind in a way that the FFB model is a few lines of code as the physics model gives everything the wheel needs to feel real!
the only way Forza is going to feel anywhere near to real is to completely change the car/track physics model to have wheel FFB in mind in the core model, not as a FFB service layer on top as an after thought.
i always wished that the assetto corsa ffb model could be used for different games, on a licencing model to development studios, but this will never work as the car/track physics needs to be consistent within different games to use this ffb model. so we are stuck with different ffb model per development studio and so far, only a few have come close to a decent implementation, Dirt Rally/Assetto Corsa for example…
Horizon 3 can be played with wheel, i use TX on 900’ but you have to use normal steering as the simulation steering has VERY little FFB, with normal steering at least you get the FAKE effects, like feeling the point to hold a drift with the front wheel angle, you don’t get this with sim steering.
just my 2p, from a lot of research after the many letdowns of ffb implementations with games…
That doesnt fly anymore, You are on PC where wheels are the #1 input for anything with 4 wheels.
Until they start soft locking per vehicle with 1:1, there is no point to using a wheel at all.
It doesnt even need to be Tucker, or hire anyone permanently. Just contract it out to one of those guys. Hell, get the guy from codies that rewrote it all for Dirt Rally. He did it in less than a month.
This is the key statement and why FFB will not (for the time being anyway) be on par with other current Sim racers on Xbox.
I agree Forced Feedback needs to be fixed BADLY. I’m about at 7,000 race miles driven in Forza 6, 75% of that is with the new Thrustmaster TX racing wheel (servo base).
Forza Horizon 3 feels nothing like Forza Motorsport 6 which is a huge disappointment. The difference of weight and weight distribution from car to car is seemingly lost. Everything feels the same and SUPER arcadey. Also, there’s a slight floaty feeling when driving on the street. Offroad is pretty cool and well done though, but it’s not my cup of tea in general.
I hope Turn 10 and Playground Games make the Forced Feedback Wheel feeling to equate to Forza 6.
I’ve owned a 2011 CTS-V Coupe for just over 2 years, play it a ton in FM6, and it feels pretty darn realistic. Horizon 3… not so much, at all.
Handling improved from Horizon 2… but worse after FM6.
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Have you played anything else other than forza with your wheel? Either you found some magic formula noone else in the world has or you are imagining things, driving a car in any forza title feels nothing like driving a rl car at all, especially a car you have actually driven.
Ultimately, you can’t mimic reality perfectly through a video game, that’s the point of reality versus a game.
I’ve played Assetto Corsa on XB1, and Project Cars.
Assetto Corsa is obviously the best sim from a realism standpoint but lacks SO many cars, tracks, and excitement from a game standpoint.
Forza Motorsport 6 is the best of the Forza series in terms of realism, but not of all games out there.
Well it just goes to show ya, everyone has their own interpretation of what good FFB feels like. As long you enjoy what you payed for that’s all that really matters in end.
I was on the fence and last night on my way home I stopped a Walmart and bought a rotisserie chicken for dinner and a copy of FH3. I really like the feel of the off road in this game ( not as good as DR but enjoyable none the less). I figure its worth it to tolerate tarmac and enjoy the aspects of the game that I like , and if worse comes to worse I’ll just trade it off.
They did a fantastic job with the FFB in FH2, so I don’t accept this idea that Playground doesn’t know or care about FFB. But for some reason, the FFB quality in FH3 feels like it was added in at the last moment.
What you feel through the wheel seems to have very little to do with the underlying physics. It feels like some sort of canned “rumble” effect.
Again, the FH2 FFB was fairly sublime. FM6 was ok except for bizarre oversteer on a lot of the street cars (try the Dodge Hellcat for a great example). Now we have FH3 where they seem to have given up entirely.
I hope they’re reading this and don’t get distracted by a couple of people in here (who likely aren’t of driving age yet) who think the FFB is just fine.
It’s not, it’s horrible and the silver lining here is that I know that T10/PG can do some of the best FFB around. What I don’t know is why they didn’t do it this time.
I kinda agree, except switch everything you said about Forza Horizon 2 and FM6, then I agree.
I feel like FH2 FFB had the bizarre oversteer that happened with every single turn. I had to counter steer every single corner pretty much. I stopped played FH2 quickly.
FM6… don’t forget the hellcat is the heaviest production car in the game. I think the oversteer is warranted. If you use the '16 CTS V-sedan vs Hellcat, you can feel the chassis quality being SO much better in the V-sedan than the hellcat(s). Which, in reality is true. Chassis differences seem to be very clear in FM6 in my opinion.
This is a really good discussion guys… keep it up. I’m 99% SURE they’re listening.
I REALLY hope FFB gets addressed in the first or second update in FH3.
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I’ve actually driven a Hellcat. It was on my shortlist before I went with the TTRS (they’re about the same price). The real Hellcat just plows with understeer. It has no lift-throttle oversteer. At all. It’s a nose-heavy muscle car. The only way you can provoke oversteer is to punch the throttle mid-corner (assuming you’re in track mode with all the ECS and TCS off).
In FM6, you get this bizarre lift-throttle oversteer in those sorts of cars, as if you’re driving a 1976 Porsche 930 with its massive rear weight bias and semi-trailing arm camber change. That’s crazy and totally unlike the real car. The only cars in FM6 that feel correct tend to be the ones with mid-engines and/or big rear tires and/or lots of rear downforce.
Interestingly, you can make the Hellcat behave more realistically by giving it a 2-way diff and setting it to about 60/60. There’s something wrong with how they’ve modeled the diff. I don’t think they’ve got physics code that accounts for diff pre-load, so when you transition from on- to off-throttle, unless the car has large enough rear tires to handle the shock, the rears break traction and you have snap oversteer as if you hit an ice patch.
OTOH, the track cars in the game tend to have so much grip via downforce + slicks that it ends up not mattering. But for a big heavy car with relatively small tires like the Hellcat, this bug results in very bizarre snap-oversteer. The only solution is to drive it like an early 911 or the Ruf Yellowbird - you never brake or lift off the throttle mid-turn. It’s actually pretty good training, but the effect is badly over-done.
Anyway, in FH2 they seem to have fixed all that. Cars that are supposed to have lift-throttle oversteer do have it. But big nose-heavy cars with solid or multi-link rear axles (i.e. rear suspensions that maintain camber under weight transfer) tend to just understeer no matter what you do, which is entirely realistic. Understeer is safe, and that’s what the vast majority of normal street cars will do. It’s very hard to provoke them into oversteer without using lots of throttle at the edge of adhesion. Except with the Hellcat, where all it takes is a little throttle anytime (in track mode that is)!
Anyway, enough about this issue with FM6’s deficient modeling of diff pre-load lol. I sure hope Playground does something with this FFB on FH3. At least I know they can do it really well. Meanwhile, I’ve completely given up on using a wheel in FH3.
Something needs to be done, the FFB has never been right and I feel it’s because (we’ll aside from the fact it’s not trying to simulate the self alignment of the front wheels) they use a 270 degree wheel as the target, so 900 degrees feels very disjointed from the loss of fidelity in the feedback and never feels right. It shows that even now on Horizon 3 when using normal steering when oversteering the game changes your steering input from 900-360.
Until they build their system for 900 degrees in mind, it’s always going to end up feeling strange. 900 will translate better to 270 than what 270 will translate to 900.
The 270 degree steering is a “fix”. I believe FFB is not a priority in this game because it is not a sim! They should use the physics system from FM6 but that needs work too. Remember more involved physics require greater computational power… it’s a trade off when developing and this game focuses on open world, good visuals, and arcade style racing.
270 steering, sim, tcs on or off, stm off, 44 linearity feels the best on the XB1 with the tx.
Game is literally unplayable for me with my TX wheel! Forget the terrible ffb, I can live with that. It’s this ffb bug that literally kicks in every two minutes! I really would like to get some word from a dev that they are looking into this. But then again who am I kidding. They never even acknowledged the ffb bugs in any of the previous games. It’s still there in some form or another in Forza 5, Horizon 2 and Forza 6! Never one single word about it??. I know not all of us wheel users experience this but certainly a lot. This is clear when you do some Google searches. Please turn 10, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!
I think the game as a whole was designed more to be on the arcadish side of racing. I myself don’t have an issue with what they have given us to play. Now if this was the same FFB in a Forza Racing series I would certainly not be saying that as that needs to be tallied more to the sim side of things
They run the same engine, what’s posible in motorsport is equally posible in horizon, cut/paste. Even the motorsport series has been lacking in the FFB department, with the massive thread on forza 6 forums regarding this very issue, rather than make the much needed improvements, they do a total backflip and deliver the worst FFB ever.
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I concur, to the point that I have barely played the game. I have never played a new Forza title so little, including FH1 which I hated. Been spending more time drawing instead, passing the time hoping that T10 will sort the FFB out.
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Same for me, im actually questioning whether or not i just wasted $100 getting the ultimate edition when odds are i cant see myself playing this much more. Honestly Lalyrn, have you ever felt ffb this bad in recent memory? Its like they did the opposite of what everyone said in the forza 6 ffb thread to the point where it feels like it was on purpose lol.