Choose your battles

Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon have been a huge part of my life since the beginning. While my current GamerTag/Stats do not reflect it, I have played each title starting with the game that showed me what racing was all about, Forza Motorsport. I still ask for Alpine Ring to make a comeback! LOL Each entry over the years has changed bit by bit to include a wider gamer base and also to address issues/concerns people had on previous titles. FH5 is no different. Playground/Turn10 have streamlined here and there, added new event types, reimagined aspects of gameplay, et cetera… and all people want to do is complain. Why? Does it make you feel better about yourself? Does the 15 year old kid behind those pouty words feel like an adult now?

I would like to still believe that the developers of FH5 care deeply about their game and are doing what they can to resolve issues in a timely manner. But the changes people are asking of them do not happen overnight. It takes time to pinpoint the exact cause, figure out a resolve, and then implement a working fix accordingly. Will they tend to everything that whiners have droned on about for weeks?.. probably not. But that’s ok. The core game is fantastic… it just needs a little polish here and there. I have had the same problems of accolades not working, weekly events being buggy, and having to re-race the same events in order to unlock the prize, because I was using the wrong vehicle after deciphering the cryptic message. LOL And that too, is ok. I plan to spend hundreds of hours playing this game… just like I did with FH4… just like I have with each title they have released. For Turn10/Playground lit a fire in my heart so many years ago, and my heart pounds like a screaming V8. Give the developers time to address the concerns and issues… they too have had a hard year and took their much needed breaks for the new year.

I say these things not to kiss the buttocks of the developers, but more to get people to calm down a bit and relax before they come on here and flame the Team because their issue is more important, and blah blah blah. Years ago, Forums were a meeting of the minds; a way for us to talk to one another and work together. Rarely did we have somebody talk mad crap over and over like the fanbase here does. And that saddens me. We should all be working together here… right now… and helping the developers. They need us just as we need them.

So I leave you with this… right now in the world there is a constant COVID concern, people being killed for no reason, child trafficking, people displaced from their homes due to unforeseeable events, and you guys want to scream, kick, and whine about a video game!!! Choose your battles.

P.S. The 100 miles in a Bentley was easy… enjoyed making it into a drift car and roaming Mexico… I know, wild right!!! LOL

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Years ago, games were largely or completely bug free and feature complete on release. It would have once been unthinkable, and indeed such games would never have had a hope of passing console certification, for a game to be released in the state that FH5 has been, or FM7 was.

Actually we don’t need them. They aren’t growing food, or pulling oil from under the sea to keep our engines running, or all the other thousands of things which keep the real world running and are essential or useful. They make a video game, an increasingly mediocre one. We can play another game, or we can do something else altogether. We do not need them at all.

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This is a huge problem with the gaming industry and it’s the consumer who is to blame. People throwing their money at games with preorders months before release incentivize this behaviour of just releasing the game and worrying about bugs after, if at all. I mean, if they already have people’s money, what incentive is left to make sure the game releases in the best state possible?

I’m old enough to remember the good old days when a game release was a proper release. I can remember playing games that never needed a patch and some maybe getting one patch months later to fix a couple little bugs that weren’t even game breaking. Nowadays, that’s unheard of or extremely rare. Yet, people continue to preorder and have blind faith that this time things will be different.

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I choose the Battle of Hu Lao Gate.

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Iagree that a lot of the criticism has been over the top (and I include myself in that)…however, spending £85 ($100+) on something and it only vaguely working when you first turn it on is not acceptable…imagine buying a mobile phone to find you can’t make phone calls when you try it and, months later, you can make calls but get regular dropped connections…would you be happy with that?

At it’s core, there was the potential for an excellent game…unfortunately, what we got was a rehash of FH4 disguised as a new game by putting it in a different country. Each iteration of Horizon has had enough different to say “Yes, this is a new game”…FH5 does not have enough new features to say that. things like the Horizon Tour are just rehashes of previous features (FH2 anyone?)

Ultimately, if you strip out a lot of the complaints, the basic issue is the complete lack of care and attention that was put into this game. Personally, I can live with the big bugs (well, except connection issues)…what i can’t accept is when every day I am looking at the game and an issue thinking “Where was the care, attention to detail, checking work etc?”…Accolades that, when pinned, say something completely different: The New Year Toyota one which says “smash 25 Snowmen” when it should be Lanterns, Accolades that complete when driving a completely different car (or an accolade for driving an unchanged car completes when driving a tuned and painted car), Accolades that specify the wrong year on things (the Valhalla one for example). It’s things like this that really demonstrates how a Development House views their product…and it’s no wonder people are so unhappy.

I compare this game to Halo Infinite as they released around the same time and are both Microsoft owned development houses: Infinite was delayed 18 months so that they could get it right (albeit because of fan uproar over the trailer) and I didn’t experience a single bug on my Campaign playthrough (which was 40 Hours+); in contrast, FH5, on my first day playing I encountered numerous bugs within the first hour alone. FH5 was never ready for release but, and I will potentially defend PGG here, I suspect they were pressured into it by Xbox and Microsoft to make sure there was a Forza title for the Holiday season when it became clear FM wasn’t ready

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The game isn’t without its issues, but for people to say its a buggy mess, unplayable, boring, and similar sentiments are just untrue and truthfully unfair.

I’m far from a Forza fanboy, I just enjoy ripping around in cars and having fun forgetting about how poop real-life can be at times.

People claiming the game is unplayable,…I disagree… my nearly 900,000 accolades achieved didnt feel like I was playing a broken game.

The amount of times I’ve had to actually restart game or had something occur that lost me a race is probably less than 10, and for me thats acceptable - sure its annoying glitching out and losing a race, but first off its a game…second its not the end of the world.

Big problem today is everyone feels so entitled. You pay for something it can’t possibly have issues, ohh its made by a human but it should still be flawless…cmon, thats just not realistic and alot of comments I see are unfair and unwarranted.

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Which is exactly why most don’t see the whole picture of what’s gone wrong.

As Nietzsche eluded to, we don’t need the developers at all…we can easily just go elsewhere to find a game a team actually cares about.

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There’s the word as usual.

When gaming in general is fawning over itself trying to convince us all it’s better than ever nowadays people expecting the basics to be done right aren’t being ‘entitled’ when games were getting it right before the Horizon series was even conceived.

The series is a system seller, people are going to have higher expectations of it than an ID@Xbox title or a triple-A game from 2008.

Would you not expect more at a restaurant that boasts a Michelin starred chef compared to your local greasy spoon even though boiled down to their most basic they both just serve food?

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Paying for a product means you are entitled to have that product work properly. What if you applied your logic to something like a real car? Would you be ok with buying a new Subaru where it won’t start half the time, has more fuel consumption than advertised, and the wheels might fall off at any moment? Would you be ok with the dealership saying “if your car breaks, just send in a support ticket and we’ll get back to you eventually”? Apply your logic to pretty much anything out in the real world that we depend on every day and see if it still applies. Humans are more than capable of creating and making fully functional products that work at 100% right from day one.

If you want to talk programming, think about what it takes to fly a modern aeroplane, or something like the old space shuttle. Can those people live with programming glitches and fly anyway, or do they do extensive R&D and quality control before those programs are considered safe to use? I know what your answer would be so don’t tell me that it is unrealistic to expect a basically flawless product, because they do exist.

Maybe you should come down off of your moral throne and consider the possibility that many people have had a worse time of it than you, and than many, if not most, of these complaints are absolutely valid.

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For a arcade style driving game fh5 is pretty good, but that is what the whole fh series is about arcade style driving, forza motorsports was the more sim like game and always was.

Oh look, it’s this thread again. We complain because we love the series and we want a good, functioning game. We complain because it’s ridiculous to release a game in such a state just to get holiday sales. We complain because every fiber of every decision surrounding the game seems to serve the function of driving “player engagement” rather than to just be fun. This game has many, many faults. Almost all of the complaints are legit and made for good reason. You need look no further than the list of known issues that’s longer than a Stephen King novel for proof of that.

What we don’t need is people blindly accepting it and saying there’s nothing wrong. And for the record, I’m not 15, I’m 35. Perhaps you are the young one, that’s grown up with publishers releasing games with a “sell it now, fix it later” attitude. This wasn’t always the case.

Online connectivity in console gaming is still a quite recent thing, which is to say that companies once had to release polished games. Some still do, I’ve given examples before like GTA5 and RDR2, or Tales of Arise, or Ghost of Tsushima. These are all big, complex games with open worlds that were polished and mostly problem-free on release, not broken, buggy messes that needed a day one patch and a week one hot fix to fix the things the patch broke, and a second hot fix to fix the things the first hotfix broke and regardless is still riddled with countless issues and bugs.

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All I’m asking is that they actually acknowledge the issues. Have you actually read through the known issues list? All of the major issues plaguing this game are missing. I’m not talking about stuff I’d prefer, I’m talking about frequent crashes, obvious visual glitches, and the game not performing as advertised.

I’ve made tickets to no avail. I know it takes time to fix things, but they won’t even acknowledge the issues that many of us are having.

There are also issues that are in the game that showcase the fact that there was some breakdown in the QA of this game. Whether it was the QA department themselves or the communication between QA and the rest of the company, I don’t know, but there are design decisions that QA should have flagged that made it into the final product. Not bugs, intentional decisions.

Here’s a good example: you know how when you get best the end of a close race and black bars creep in from the top and bottom of the screen? Well if you play on a non-standard resolution like I do, you notice there’s a huge issue with their implementation of that system. I play on a 5120x1440p monitor, a resolution that’s particularly good for racing titles. When the effect kicks in, black bars not only appear on the top and bottom of my screen, but on the sides as well. Right as the effect is about to start, the sides of my screen get chopped off, cutting my screen resolution in half, then the black bars on the top and bottom appear. ANY amount of playtesting on my resolution should have caught this. I shouldn’t have to make a ticket just for them to acknowledge that, not that it matters, because it seems they won’t acknowledge it no matter what I do.

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If it is true that you should choose your battles because there is real suffering in the world, is what people complain about a valid battle for you to choose to fight. Why complain about people complaining when real people are suffering from real disasters?

While I do think some people take their complaints to an extreme, it is their right constitutionally (for those in the States) and based on the forum rules to complain about the game as long as they do not violate any forum guidelines. I might roll my eyes at some of the rhetoric or complaints, but I will not say that they should just deal with it because it’s just a game.

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Forums were WILD years ago. EA forum for NFS circa 2005 did not have a lot of happy people.

It’s not really a sense of entitlement. But more like “hey, this worked just fine in the older game, but now it’s broken”. Or “I’ve done this in the older game before, is this the best you can do to draw me in?”.

In my case though it’s a general distaste for how Microsoft’s been handling Xbox these days.

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NFS is a pretty good example for me to illustrate how much ‘progress’ gaming has made from yesteryear in certain departments.

Underground 2 I could jump straight into and play for hours and hours on PS2/OG Xbox without any issues.

Around a decade and a half later + with a console 3 generations more advanced I play Heat for the first time and it crashes + messes with my whole console to the point I can’t play any other games either as they freeze a few seconds after starting.

That happened to me twice in my first 2 hours of playing it.

Anyone here think that experience with a 2004 game vs a 2019 game is 15 years of progress?

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The first time I upgraded my exhaust in NFSU2 I would keep revving my 240SX hard and enjoying it.

The first time I upgraded my exhaust in FH5 I was like “eh, seen this before, 17 years ago, also my car is sounding worse now”.

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I think most games 15 years ago were better then games today. Same thing for music. There’s 2 reasons for this. Firstly everyone looks back at what they played and listened to when they were young as the golden era. Secondly gaming has evolved in the past decade into a huge industry worth alot of money. So it’s not about creating the best games in terms of quality and entertainment. Rather it’s about marketing and making as much money as possible.

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Times have changed and players got older.

The main reason for the state of this forum is that someone is listening on the other side. Players know that rising their voice is also simple and most effective. When you are vocal and see changes you feel in control. You have the illusion of being in power. When others see that being vocal can produce results they will shout even more.

Just look at the Ticket system. It’s designed to quickly filter the most common issues so the guys that are working on those know where to focus their attention. But just a quick look through this forum and you see a common believe. Tickets are a joke, nobody ever reads them, you only get a generic answer and it gets marked as solved without solving anything. And despite staff members telling us that it’s exactly the way is supposed to work we are still complaining about this broken feature.

Or just look at some reasoning. 17 years ago games were bugs free and actually fun. Try to find anyone saying that maybe it’s because they were 17 years younger at that time or mentioning the fact that games now days are much more complex. Just comparing FH2 to 5 and a person with a reasonable mind can see a huge difference. FH2 to 5 is also a pretty short time too for releasing 4 games.

People complaining about bugs and glitches is normal. I think not only is their right to complain but it’s necessary for stimulating and expecting better quality results in the future.

My main issue are those that want unrealistic changes (map alteration, cars remodeling,…) and those that want to ruin the game for others demanding feature removal, that want to impose easy results for everyone else just because he/she/they are bored or have a filling that playing video games is equal to doing a chore. Those that are not sure themselves what they really want to be fixed and just complain for the sake of complaining. Or just to get those 20 likes to feel special.

But there’s is a group that I really hate. Those that are constantly telling others how devs are lazy, stupid, incompetent, how nobody is listening, how nobody is going to do anything and all the other lies.
Those that have 500h of playtime and still posting how the game is bad or/and are making unnecessary drama.

Anyway so far those that want to make this game “better” have managed to remove long races in Open, are making the Playlist duller and duller. If you enjoyed Trials or any kind of challenge in the past you can only expect boring days in the future since the new trend is to turn everything on easy mode. The most hilarious thing is that the same person can believe that casuals are making games worst and at the same time trying to tailor the game to suit that same group of players.

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Marking unresolved tickets as “solved” is never the right answer. They clearly aren’t solved so all it’s going to do is lead to resentment and a suspicion of stats padding. Perhaps PGG could share data on the number of complaints about the broken points system in FH4 Team Adventure they marked “solved”, what they actually did about it and why there was never any mention of it at all in any official communication? We could then have an open discussion about whether that approach to communication/problems is acceptable and how it could be improved going forwards. As it is, it’s understandable why people have very little faith in PGG.

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