Built from the ground up? I think it’s true

Forza Motorsport Forza Motorsport (2023) Discussion
,
1

See I think built from the ground up was a mantra of a re-boot internally that happened a few years into the development when something happened and everything was scrapped and re-started

Someone decided, and it feels to me like some people who aren’t avid race fans or gear heads or just people who love cars, they decided to reinvent the racing game market
They would build it like an rpg from the ground up
They saw the success of things like FM and they knew the metrics and theories of how to get “engagement” up in other games, stuff like shooters and mmorpg games
They thought we can make that a racing game, we can bring those mechanics

So they started from the ground up and forgot why racing games are fun and engaging

If they implemented FH rpg in FM nobody would have nearly as much of an issue
In FH the skill tree and rpg aspects do not effect your ability to grab any car you can afford and slap any mods you can afford onto it and go drive it in any race or event that it specs into.

The bonuses and extra space-bucks or whatever alternate xp systems are used by the player to get rewards and items or maybe a special car for fun
But the core mechanic of get car, build it how you want, drive it, and fall in love with the one you fall in love with
That still works fine in FH

FOMO I don’t care if it’s there or not, it’s nice to have new events and rewards, I don’t sweat it

The problem with the rpg mechanic of FM is that it breaks that fundamental mechanic.

Worse than that, unlike an rpg where you upgrade your character over time

You as the driver arent even the character
The cars are
So every car has to be upgraded over time

This is the flaw

FM decided to go beyond a normal rpg even and it fails at that mechanic
It treats Each car as if it is a new character that needs to be played and leveled up

So you have to waste time leveling cars and not just driving playing upgrading them,
And you don’t feel like your leveling your skill up
And your definitely not leveling up your fun

It needs to go away, or be just an achievement with minor perks to unlock

Get 10 fords to level 10 and get a special suit, get them to 50 and get an exclusive car or livery or Motorsport edition with custom interior

That kind of thing would be fine

The rpg grind every car for hours before you can just have fun with it
That is why nobody is playing
It isn’t the graphics
It isn’t the ai
It isn’t the crashes
It isn’t the replays
These all matter and to some are critical, no doubt all are important
But none are as important as the cards/carPG nonsense
Because, no matter who you are, or what your priorities are in FM, you can’t just play, you have to grind or AFK
And that sucks
Because someone who doesn’t play, thought it was good, to remake racing games that way.

Made from the ground up was true, but not in the good way, but with an idea that was “new” And took our fun away

I really hope they get this now and they seem to be listening, I really hope turn 10 brings back the fun again, and the passion from the devs. I’m hopeful but I won’t be here forever.

4 Likes
2

I think if the cars sounded better, and the stock out of the box physics were actually good then the game wouldn’t be so bad. The economy is just fine, it’s just when you buy the car, you immediately have to upgrade it especially if you play with manual w/ clutch. That compounded with the different flavors of understeer for every car in the game save the modern LMP1s makes for a very poor experience. AC didn’t need modding to be a fun game. Neither does Forza.

This could’ve been a great opportunity to showcase their improved physics engine, but they chose to throw in “Forza Feel” to make the cars more approachable to a wider audience. It failed miserably.

Car sounds is also a big factor in immersion. Going through the gears in a Carrera GT should be an enjoyable experience. The manual gear shifts coupled with the screaming V10 are what makes it one of the best drivers cars ever made. In this game all cars lack “feeling” that was there in previous Forzas.

Graphics are okay to me, but to some, the car models are a big thorn in the side.

“CaRPG” has been done before. It’s called Need For Speed underground. This game has done it poorly though. The same parts unlock at the same levels, it’s the same for every car. Progression in this game is a monotonous wave of failed manual w/ clutch implementation and understeer. It wouldn’t be so bad if the shifts were quicker and the cars actually had character.

I could live with getting to know a car completely stock, and building on my times as I unlocked fantasy upgrades. I don’t want to do that in this game. Your car isn’t competitive in SP unless you take it to free play and grind for 30-45 minutes. It should be competitive out of the box, manual w/ clutch needs to be locked behind damage to prevent power shifting. Understeering in a 600+ hp twin turbo’d RR Porsche coming out of corners should be burned at the stake.

It’s not possible to make it through the game with a completely stock car on full difficulty assists wise unless you take a risk with your shift timing. It should be possible.

This games progression could be fun. Let people get a taste of some well tuned factory OEM cars, then let them see what upgrades do what to the balance of the car piece by piece.

Make the crossplane V8’s roar, the flatplane V8’s sing, the high revving V10’s and 12’s scream, and I can get down with a good throaty V6, or deep Flat 6 or a high revving Flat 6. A high revving VTEC I4 never hurt anyone either, boxer 4 even less.

This game lacks soul on the ground level which should be interesting given your initial 3 choices (2 if you take out the turbo I4 and it’s pumped in sound). Every time I pass a 5.0 coyote on the street I get a treat to hear such a well tuned V-8.

This game just lacks all the feeling.

4 Likes
3

I agree the stock tunes are absurd and the way stock cars handle, forget if the physics of tire contact is better or not, suffers for the way the cars come out of the box. I mean, why the hell is every tire pressure so comically off to start with, at least make that in the ball park for beginners.

Manual with clutch shifting is odd (although I do like that some cars that should not have clutch are faster if shifted in full manual without using a clutch, someone was doing something on purpose) but I don’t think that’s a big deal for most players, not on the same level as the carxp carPG system

The sounds don’t bother me but that is perhaps because I cannot see a game giving me the same sound experience as the real life car. Even in iMax car exhaust sounds in movies never hit me right. The way an exhaust and engine move air and we experience it is different than what I have ever heard a speaker do. Lots of people love car sounds and I get that, I just don’t expect anything good out of a game or movie or any source other than live. Maybe there are some horn speakers out there that could move the volume of air needed to have the impact of that coyote I gone, but they would need to be massive and probably a good class a solid state amp to push it. Though thd doesn’t matter much in this context so maybe high fidelity amplification is irrelevant here.

But that’s off topic
You make the point that it isn’t fun to upgrade cars, to grind.

That is very much the product of built from the ground up being about cars as characters to level up, instead of cars with character that you upgrade, and very much what needs to change. That will take passion for Motorsport from the devs and I’m hopeful someone still has it there and that person will be listened too.

2 Likes
4

I suspect the game was originally designed to have micro transactions to skip CarXP. The whole UI and setup feels more like a mobile game. As development went on and consumer outrage about micro transactions grew, they had to scrap that part but stuck with the CarPG theme.
Think of the market 3-4 years ago when development started, Free to play games were taking off and it seems a bunch of staff were put on from the mobile gaming world to create a free to play micro transaction style game.
Whatever happened and the structure was changed and this is what we were left with.

Just my thoughts.

4 Likes
5

Its bad either way. But I do believe its more insulting they are barring recycled cars through FOMO

Its always been bad and I’ve always decried it, but its never hit me before in any significant way til I missed the Pagani Huayra due to me actively ignoring Forza for a month due to the insulting state of both franchise.

1 Like
6

They could at least be YouTube quality. I haven’t heard a Zonda R in person, but I clearly remember the YouTube video of it flying by at Imola in the wet when it debuted. Everywhere the else I’ve heard the car on YouTube is consistent with that video.

The issue with sound is chase cam vs cockpit where there’s oscillations from the engine that travel through the cockpit combined with the muted exhaust note that’s dominant on the outside. Kunos did a good job designing this all from watching YouTube videos.

If the fundamentals are there then it’s a good sound. Add distortion effects like real life, and it’s even better. This is a big reason why FM4, FH1, and FH2 are praised so much. The sounds aren’t all accurate, but the loudness and distortion effects immersed you, and made driving more enjoyable when getting acquainted with the car.

Agree 100%. A change has to come. For a game like this it’s going to come.

7

You’re not missing much, you can’t see any left handers because visibility is poor. It’s nothing special overall, just looks cool.

8

It’s one of my favorite cars. I have a couple hundred hours behind that domed glass. I’m well acquainted with its blindspots. Its been in Forza since Motorsport 4. Except for this one. Sliced off and dished back out 2 years later.

9

IMO, CarPG was perfected in Gran Turismo 2, where you started off having one car which you could use through most of the early races, upgrading it as you went along. The top tier upgrades were expensive, but by the point you needed them you almost had a sense of pride that you were entering races in your cheap secondhand Nissan Primera or Mazda RX-7. Alternatively, if you were good at the game you could get gold on a few licences and stomp everything up to the mid-game without the grind.

The big difference for me compared to Forza though is the journey itself was fun. Yes, you used to run endless repeats of that Red Rock Speedway race saving up for the best cars (T10 take note: everything unlockable on a level playing field to the point I could still stick that disc into a console today and race any event or drive any car I want, given enough time) but it was enjoyable to do that, you’d spend one race perfecting the line through the chicane, then the next trying to win in the most underpowered car you could, then absolutely blast the field in the Escudo for a laugh… whereas Forza’s gameplay extension mechanics are so transparently artificial you’re constantly aware it’s a sham - “I’m only doing these practice laps to unlock more car points”, “I’m only racing this championship because there’s a time-locked reward at the end of it” - and after an hour or so of being slowly ground down by the feeling I’m just sitting in a massive virtual Skinner box I simply don’t have any desire to play it any more.

7 Likes
10

You’re thinking of the Zonda R, the Huayra R debuted in FH5 and now FM ‘23. The visibility is way worse than the Zondas.

11

Nope. OG Huayra debuted in Motorsport 4.

image
image1280×720 210 KB

1 Like
12

Oh, you’re talking about FH5 lol.

13

I’m talking about how they released it in the FOMO weekly chores series. After having cut it out of the release for that reason.

1 Like
14

Yeah, in FH5 right? The regular Huayra still isn’t in FM ‘23, just the BC and R. The latter being tied to the FOMO circus.

15

I thought it was a FOMO car in one of the previous updates - 2 or 3.

16

Nah that was the Huayra R, it was the reward for last month’s featured career.

You might be thinking of FH5, the regular Huayra returned last month as a playlist reward for series 29.

1 Like
17

What I just read was that you are ok with re-running red rock speedway over and over and somehow that’s ok?? Grinding in other games is ok just not FM23 makes zero sense,but whatever.I’m running the game at 4k/full rt and it looks great.I also have a blast upgrading the cars in singleplayer setting up races and stomping the AI.The game just keeps getting better with every monthly update,this one is gonna be a whopper.

18

TELEMMGLPICT000347303780_16933910453300_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqqVzuuqpFlyLIwiB6NTmJwfSVWeZ_vEN7c6bHu2jJnT8
TELEMMGLPICT000347303780_16933910453300_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqqVzuuqpFlyLIwiB6NTmJwfSVWeZ_vEN7c6bHu2jJnT81200×750 142 KB

It will still taste the same :wink:

10 Likes
19

FYI, if you shift manual w/ clutch with race transmission like regular manual, it’s faster, barley faster, but it adds up over a lap. There’s no penalty, it becomes a sequential transmission no matter the car. It’s why all the top times are MC no matter the class. They didn’t fix anything really. If you already knew this then disregard this post, I didn’t 100% know what you meant.

20

Yes that is what I was saying in a clunky way. It’s a little nugget that a game like this should be full of. It’s kind of the spice that help make a game fun.

Honestly after a few months of playing regularly I have tapered off, just waiting and hoping some of my thoughts and the thoughts of others expressed here are heard and acted upon so that I can return to the game.

I do wonder, I played GT when it came out, and GT2 but I honestly forget some of the grind. I believe it was never like this forza where each and every car was a grind, just the first several hours was a grind in a cheap car to get it upgraded win races and get some cash so you could start buying other cars. The cash was the limiting factor and earning enough was the journey, then the fun came from mastering new classes and racing cars you bought, you didn’t have to level every car right?