An effort in futility

Forza Motorsport Legacy Motorsport
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I have not tried the NASCAR League yet. Mainly because I have not played enough of the career mode to feel comfortable with it, and I don’t want to be the “jerk” who wrecks the entire pack.
I live on the east coast, and my normal race time is from about 9 pm to 1am (should be midnight, but …one more).
I have usually raced with the same group as well. When enough of the clean ones are on, we do party chat and it’s usually a good time. But there have always been several who intentionally wreck. Not like the griefers who sit at the start finish line, after creating turn 1 carnage, and wait for the leaders to come around so they can slam them. I’m talking about the ones who will ram you from behind to initiate a pass, side swipe you off the track to stop you from passing, ram you into a tire wall in the chicane so they can fly through it at record speed, slam on their brakes mid straight so you end up in the grass trying to avoid them. Everyone who plays knows what I am talking about. There is no excuse for it, and it is so prevalent, new players think it is how to play the game.
I’m glad you are not having the trouble I am. I wish we could all say the same.

Peace

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I do not want to post this because I do not want it to happen. So I am not going to jinx it! And I am not superstitious it’s bad luck!!!

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It is a sad day indeed. It’s hard to believe it’s not what’s intended as it clearly is so common place and the only mechanism is telling on persons to a single volunteer, who then pases confirmation to T10.

I truly appreciate Snowowl, however, this system is extremely sad on T10,imo regardless of how awesome it is that Snowowl does this. This should be a secondary system not the primary one

There is collision monitoring (major and minor) per the drivatar stats. Please do something T10. Create clean rating, something that allows us to run a lobby similar to weekly leagues. I don’t care if it’s perfect, don’t care if it is flawed. Don’t care about how wreckers will get around it. Let’s not wait for a perfect solution.

Please do something even if it’s an experemiment – we could use a little light at the end tunnel.

4 Likes
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The sheer absurdity of 300,000+ players under the watchful eye of ONE person is mind boggling. If someone told me that as the punchline to a joke I wouldn’t laugh, yet here we are with this exact situation.

Incompetence? Indifference? You tell me.

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Nope. Under the watchful eyes of any of up to 23 other players in each race. Everyone who participates, that is, and that is one of the reasons I’m currently six days behind reviewing the replays. That’s the good part, more people are participating.

That’s why I say perhaps Turn 10 needs to turn up the penalty on the crashers and include console bans for the periods of stepping through seven-day, 30-day and permanent bans.

Too many of these folks go from their ban notice to just creating another gamertag (that’s an Xbox Live Xbox One “family” situation, not the game) and continuing their antics. Blocking the console also would eliminate them from doing that and also express the seriousness of how Turn 10 looks upon these people ruining the racing.

3 Likes
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I see you and Dan Greenwalt attended the same marketing seminar.

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I’ll say it again, unless there is Turn 10 STAFF, in the office, logged onto their secure access to the administration software monitoring each and every race, each and every car in those races, there is going to be no action taken. The Xbox Live Policy Enforcement Team (PET) has the staffing (Report player through Xbox One Dashboard) to investigate live, observe and suspend accounts. They are paid employees, just like Turn 10/Playground Games employees are, but they also have many more tools than any of the gaming producers.

No “stringer” or “remote non-employee” is ever going to have those capabilities, no matter how many times you, I or anyone else asks for it. Only employees, onsite with the proper credentials to access the administration software can do that. I’ve been doing this volunteer stuff into the 10th year now, and without proper documentation no individual Xbox Live account holder is going to be denied access to play any game they’ve purchased by some remote volunteer.

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Oh, please we’re (you, me and the rest of the players) are trying our very best to deal with the situation as it exists.

You and I have equally have the same control over what the developers send our way. Insults don’t help, but I’ll be glad to turn over the reigns to you, if you want to step up to help others.

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Handing it over isn’t the answer - you need help. One person can’t do this. You need a team of active members who actually participate in races.

I don’t mean to pat myself on the back but one of the better communities I’ve been involved with was where participating players would administer servers 24 hours a day (me being one of them). It brought up it’s own crap storm of controversies (whining players, manufactured drama and jealousy fits). It’s probably far beyond the capability of this game but having a few hundred players given admin rights, with the ability to ban, block and police players would be infinitely more effective.

This game needs policing because there are far too many players out there with zero respect for other people.

2 Likes
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I just had a brilliant idea and posted it in Features Requests. Go read it and add a Like.

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bwahaha, if i could ‘like’ your post more i would :slight_smile:

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I re-read Snowowl’s response and decided to re-write my response:

I was, in fact, completely correct with my first post in this thread - there’s ONE person in charge of policing 300,000 players. Therefor Snowowl’s response to my comment is nothing but a warped marketing spin on an obvious fact - this game is not being policed properly.

It won’t ever be policed properly until there are lobby admins or active admins out playing the game.

33

Yes, I want to be perfectly clear about Snowowl. What he does is exceptional and way more than should be expected of one person. His procedures DO WORK. Using his prescribed method for reporting wreckers will get results.
Please do not interpret my frustrated to imply that nothing is being done. I realize and greatly appreciate what Snowowl does. It is the lack of anything else in place to educate and penalize those who choose to disrespect the game and other players.
Track limits need to be enforced with some kind of penalty. Aggressive drivers need to be identified by their erratic behavior and penalized. Some form of education and licensing must be implemented. True Skill rating sounds cool, but what does it do? How can players improve if they don’t know the parameters and f the game and where they need work?

I know it isn’t an easy thing to fix, and the developers don’t want to implement anything that might penalize the wrong people. But right NOW, the system is penalizing many good clean drivers, while apparently rewarding overly aggressive cheaters.

The other night I was passed by someone who cut turn 2 at LeMans Bugatti Circuit. I was right with him and watched him take the big cut at the chicane, and again at the turn before the pits. When I confronted him about it he said he HAS to use those cuts because people are so much slower than him. THAT is the justification? The same person routinely bumps opponents off the track in turn 1, just a good solid punt, and then yells at them because he felt they used their brakes too early. THAT is the justification? It’s this kind of behavior that CREATES an angry driver looking for revenge. It’s this behavior that results in someone plowing into a corner, to get him back, and causing others to have their race ruined. These things can NOT be justified as being OK.
In the past, I wouldn’t consider this as “intentional wrecking”. I only reported the obvious griefers who wreck everyone they can at every opportunity they get. However, the ones like I just mentioned above are every bit as bad, or worse, because they believe they are justified in driving like that. Those people need to be reported too!!! And I haven’t wanted to lump any more replays onto Snowowl’s plate. He is already overloaded.
So please, THANK Snowowl for what he does. His is a thankless and never ending task. But USE THE SYSTEM and report these folks who are ruining our game. As much as I hate to do it, I will ramp up my reporting. I will save replays and document EVERY SINGLE ONE of these people, for as long as it takes. I might have to change my GAMERTAG and use of plain cars, but if that’s what it takes, I will do it.

3 Likes
34

Feel exactly the same hippie.

I’m not bothering with the gt league anymore it’s gonna be a crazy fortnight.

The burnese bigfoot says that the level of driver he’s facing in grassroots is better than what we’re facing in pro.

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When does a person create a new gamer tag because of a ban? Is it whenever they get a 7-day, 30-day, or permanent ban?

o Most certainly when dealt a permanent ban.
o Few folks may just play another game while given a 30-day ban.
o More likely most would endure a 7-day ban.

Instead of migrating from a 7-day to a 30-day to a permanent ban on each successive misbehavior episode, why not repeat a 7-day three or four times before issuing a 30-day ban?

Seven-day bans are minor punishments that may stop the ‘change gamer-tag’ mentality. Instead of going through the hassle of changing a gamer tag, hopefully more would endure the punishment. Perhaps three or four minor punishments might change their behavior and not their gamer tag.

Could the observation or examination of replays be reduced for 7-day bans so only the reported gamer tag get the critical review? A quick turn-around of a 7-day ban is helpful while the misbehavior is still fresh in the offender’s memory.

oo I’ve had the same gamer tag for over ten years and have no idea whether it is a hassle or not to change the tag.
oo I’ve reviewed a few replays for reporting and watching each individual go through each lap is extremely time consuming.
oo I race with a friend who earned a 7-day ban and he certainly doesn’t want another. Although if he strayed again, the 30-day ban seems excessive.

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Sorry, but I will laugh at your suggestion. Take Vinyls or Designs, for instance. Someone posts a Design which has a violation on it, and you know what happens when it is put Under Review? They repost it again. You know what happens if you had a succession of seven-day bans for unsportsmanlike conduct in races, they would see how many they could get as a badge of honor. Xbox Live does the same system, which is where Turn 10 gets the regulations. These rules being violation at Code of Conduct, universal to Xbox Live games, not just Forza Motorsport.

Stepping up the bans to include the console for the duration of whatever time is imposed would get their attention. No matter what or how many “family” gamertags they would create, the Xbox One on which they’re playing the game would be banned. That would get the message across a lot quicker than a “series” of bans.

2 Likes
38

I often wondered if some of the high speed turn crashes are due to not knowing which layout is being raced on, like Catalunya national vs grand prix for example.

A couple of nights ago I raced against another guy at ABCS on Le Mans at night time. We were the only two in the class. I didn’t realize it was the setup with the corners on the straight away. I accidentally clipped him. I could have drove away while he was recovering, but I stayed put until he was ready again. I guess they understood it was an accident. I wonder if others have done the same thing I did, but had a different moral code and drove away.

Anywho, I still believe that the vote to kick should become visible showing a ratio by each players name rather than just one like in FM4.

39

There needs to be a system implemented in-game for banning players. It has to happen right away, not a week later when that player either doesnt want to play anyway, or doesnt remember when or why it would happen. Im not sure if it was halo 3 or reach, but at the time there was a problem with people quitting out of the lobbies. They implemented a system which banned people for X amount of time after a warning was given for quitting too much. Shocker, it worked. It started off low like 10 minutes or something but would continue to increase if you kept doing it. I think a similiar system can be used in these games to combat quitters, cutters and rammers.

More so than other multiplayer games, racing online in forza is a solitary sport. Which means we have upwards of 24 individuals trying to reach the same thing, 1st place. Obviously everyone has different skill levels, and everyone is going to do what they have to do to win. The problem is more times than not people will smash and cut their way to the top regardless of skill level. It would be a difficult task in itself to force people to follow rules to begin with, but in forzas case there are no rules. Its not helping the situation.

Ive said it before in other threads, turn 10 need to set a standard of racing etiquette, no matter how low that may be. Teach people the rights and wrongs of racing and possibly teach them how to get better with tutorials or license tests and what not. If as much care went into teaching people how to race as much as they put into 3d modelling ashtrays in forzavista, this could be a great game.

I think this focus should start in singleplayer then at a certain point people graduate to playing multiplayer. I know some will say they dont want to play singleplayer, that they only want to race in multiplayer, but as i said above racing is a different type of game compared to other multiplayer games. Everything we do has a direct effect with other players around us. Driving in games is similar to real life in the fact that you’re putting trust not only in your own abilities but also into the people around you. I think it has been shown time and time again that people just cant be trusted to race with other people.

No matter how much i hate wreckers and corner cutters, i really dont like seeing people banned. It is just a game, theyre not ruining my day, but they are wasting my time. I think if besides some form of rules were in place, a system needs to be made to instantly take care of people who break them.

Corner cutting is not the same as driving off the track. It takes place in certain corners, whether theyre cut, or a turn is extended to give a higher exit speed. It should not be difficult to find these spots, they have been the same for every game that that particular track has been in. I dont think sticky grass is useful in this situation, as it causes that player to come on to the track in a corner at a slow speed most likely causing an accident. What i think should happen is in these “cutting zones”, time should be added to either the end of the race or even the next race they do. So if you came in first but you cut 10 seconds worth of track, 10 seconds is added to your time and you hopefully lose a position. Or they could add a 10 second delayed start in their next race , im sure they wouldnt like that. If these penalty times add up to X amount in X amount of races, you get a cool down period of whatever they want to make it.

Crashing would be a little more difficult to handle because there will always be accidental contact, but im sure theres a way. Every track has braking zones, the suggested line shows them. If someone is constantly making contact in those zones, they are obviously not trying to brake or take the turn properly. Turn 10 need to do some research on what the average collision rate is on each track as well as with how many players per race. A race with 10 people is going to have less than 24 and a short track is going to have more than a longer one. Instead of gathering data for drivatars for sinleplayer, maybe they should gather that data to better the game as a whole. They need to come up with a number of collisions that are acceptable in a race, if people go over it they are warned and if they continue to do it they have a cool down period as well.

When these corner cutters and wreckers keep getting these coold down periods, they are either going to clean up their act or stop playing online all together, id say its a win win situation. As i said i dont think its something that turn 10 can flip a switch and fix, and im sure they know its a problem, but as far as im concerned they have over a year from now to fix it. Thats plenty of time to come up with something, anything to help make racing online an acceptable experience, because as far as im concerned its not and hasnt been for quite awhile.

2 Likes
40

Hippie… don’t give in brother because you’ll just get banned yourself & the in-game wreckers, which are TROLLS, will win… this is basically a Star Wars Light vs Dark type moment… just ask yourself, WWYD (What Would YODA Do)?