At what point is it the developers problem?

Forza Motorsport Legacy Motorsport
1

I may be new here,

However i am not new to forums, in fact i have actively avoided them for years. Purely because many of you have obviously been here too long and i guess don’t see the sun much or live in reality, so have this little community here where its all to benefit the game, i come along with a complaint and how dare i be so naive and out of touch.

I genuinely would like an explanation as to why it is the communitys responsibility to do a company’s job for them?

I have purchased a product, a recreational product i like to be competitive at. So i come home i sit down and i just want to do some drifting. I want to play the game i have purchased in the intended manor. I really don’t think this is much to ask, yet it seems the onus is now on the customer to moderate the game and the behavior of players? I am being told if i have a problem with rammers i should save the replays and send them in and they will be reviewed… Will they? then what they make a new account the next day?

I have no need for a community or to benefit the game in any way whatsoever, i’m not being paid.

Once again. I am the consumer of a product.

So what is it, get my money then oh well if you want anything fixed you need to stop actually using our product in your free time when you would use it and send us replays so we can act? just because that is how it is done it does not mean it is how it should be done.

You can sit here and talk about community all you like. All i am asking for as a consumer is to be able to use the product as intended.

I even supported your community viewpoint, i suggested respected members of the community be made moderators who could ban people while in game if they saw people joining games purely to take enjoyment from others with no eye to the objective of the game.

Apparently you cant have just anybody do that. of course not. Surely though. people moderate this forum? like all forums people are approached for their reputation of being fair and just and not trigger happy and such people who are playing the game and such a part of this thriving community could actually be actively doing something quickly and efficiently to solve this issue?

I’ll finish with the clarification that clearly the methods being used now of reporting are simply not working, in 3 hours this evening i had no less than 9 different XBL members ramming me with F1 cars in a drift game. This is a daily occurrence.

It’s pretty clear something needs to change, i am however not going to sit there every day filling up my extremely limited replay slots which i use for clips to make montages and cut into my gaming time to resolve an issue that simply should have been dealt with long ago.

Yet it is worse than ever.

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I agree. Not enough is being done, and any request for information is ignored.
I have been following the procedures and reporting them. I usually spend at least 3 hours a day reviewing replays, renaming them, saving them and sharing them, so Snowowl (one person) can review my review and forward it IF it meets all the requirements . Three hours where I could be enjoying the game. As it is now, I spend about 3-4 hours a night in Leagues.
Every race I was in tonight, had at least one griefer. On top of that there were at least 4 players who drove abusively, and extremely aggressive. Those people should also be policed and banned. There were also at least 4 corner cutters. They were able to cut off better than 8 seconds a lap at Yaz Marina and LeMans. That’s 8 seconds faster than the next person, and that means that most of the lobby didn’t finish many races. They are all cheaters, all have excuses to justify why they do it. But they are cheaters none the less.

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That’s why I dint even try to report people to T10, it’s a waste of time, because I would have to save every single replay because that is how many wreckers there are, if they came out and said, “modderators may randomly come into lobbies,” and actually do it, wreckers would be scared

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When I get into a league there’s certain tracks I will just observe. I don’t mind losing but not to cheating corner cutters. Really frustrating to be in a car that’s reasonably high on the leaderboards and regardless of how hard I push I’m 3-4 seconds down per lap. Some of the lines corner cutters can get away with and take are simply ridiculous . In hoppers I personally don’t gets as frustrated but in a league it is recorded and accumulate of results.
A racing game I believe should be able to patch in fixes for corner cutters( cheats)

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While I am inclined to agree with everything you have said, let’s be a little more fair to T10. There have been many threads posted about how bad the older games were due to sticky grass because its not realistic. I am sure T10 was trying to address the grievances of so many in the community who had a problem with the sticky grass. I am also part of that group who had issues with sticky grass. For example, racing on Indianapolis only to brush the grass on the inside with one tire and being punished by having my car slammed from 150mph to 20mph only to be further “rewarded” by the guy behind me, through no fault of his own, slamming into me and ruining both of our races. (If we were lucky it only ruined our races).

I hated the sticky grass as much as anyone else. However, I do believe that T10 could have solved the little annoying problem by just tweaking the system. Everyone has messed up a corner here or there that results in the corner being clipped by the inside tires, or went just a little to wide on an exit. Instead of having the sticky grass right at the edge of the track, T10 could have allowed roughly 50 to 60% of the width of the car to hit the grass without penalty. It could even be less than that for the apex of a turn. Then they could have added it to the really obvious areas that cheaters love to abuse. (I trully believe that 80% of the people who cried the loudest are the cutters we all put up with now. All of the cutters have no integrity!) T10 has removed sticky grass on just about every track yet they left those really annoying areas in on LeMans. I am so tired of going a little wide on a turn only to be punnished for 2 tires that went slightly off the track. Another issue is the sticky walls we now have to put up with. It’s way to aggressive in some areas. Its hard to get off a wall that curves twards your car in just a few feet. It doesn’t necessarily need to be removed, just tweaked. Hopefully T10 could adress these areas for Forza 7.

While I am not a fan of the sticky grass, it was a necessary deterrent that did its job. I would rather lose 1 or 2 positions from my mistake than lose 6 or 7 to people who have no regard for fair play or sportsmanship. Either way, I am sure T10 will always have half the community on their backs for any decisions they make with regards to the countermeasures they implement to deter the unscrupulous behavior of cheats.

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You don’t need sticky grass, just a penalty system. If all 4 wheels go off track within a set range of a bend, where no contact is made with another vehicle, then you get a 10 second penalty added to your final time. Simple as that and job done, it ain’t rocket science. Sticky walls are another thing entirely. If you run wide into a bend then physics will stick you too the slipperiest of walls, they should slow you down, otherwise people will just need for speed the corners. When you stick to a wall on the inside of a bend, that’s just stupid bad game programming that highlights how simple some of the applied game mechanics are!

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There really was a strong demand from the community for Turn 10 to remover the sticky grass, and to stop the wall riders. Now, it appears Turn 10 granted those wishes by removing the sticky grass and pasting it to the walls.
I don’t know what the answer is, but a lot of good suggestions have been made.
I hope we see changes to FM6 that address the issues of corner cutting, over aggressive driving and intentional wrecking. However, I am inclined to believe we won’t see anything drastic until at least FM7, and even then it may be too little. It just depends on the direction Turn 10 decides to take the game.

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I think you’ll find that most people (who don’t see enough daylight) on this forum (which is clearly beneath you) actually agree with you. In fact even a quick scan of just the first page shows many huge threads full of people complaining about the very things you are complaining about.

The people who disagreed with you probably fall into two categories - those who are sick of seeing the same threads posted over and over and over again by people too lazy or stupid to take a quick look to see whether their topic ie already being discussed, and people who find your way of expressing yourself obnoxious enough that they’re inclined to argue with you even if they happen to agree with you.

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Turn 10 could definitely make the corner cutting issue less of a problem by bringing back the time penalty system from the older FM titles. That way, people who cut corners to gain time would actually hinder themselves and end up losing spots at the finish by accruing time penalties, and those of us who raced clean would actually get the finishing positions our fair, proper racing style deserves.

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This is one of the things I’ve asked for. Several years ago there were time penalties, but as I recall they just affected leaderboard times rather than race results. I don’t want sticky grass, but rather want the return of time penalties and for them to affect race results. If I’m in first place, three seconds ahead of second, but I have twenty seconds of time penalties, I ultimately get credit for eighth place instead.

The only problem is we’d need to be smart about where the time penalties get applied. I’d say pretty much the inside of any turn gets a penalty, but running wide way out into the grass in totally the wrong direction is penalty enough on its own. I’d figure just go through figuring what places could benefit by running through there and program it to slap you with a time penalty for doing it.

While we’re on it, we could actually do penalties for other stuff, like collisions and wrecks, though it might be harder to implement because if I get hit by someone else the game just knows there’s contact but doesn’t have a way to analyze the situation and determine fault. Maybe we could just do it so that if your front half collides with someone’s back half you get the blame. That wouldn’t be perfect but it’s something. I guess it would still be unfair if that collision was a result of the guy ahead closing the door on someone passing them, though.

Well, at least the corner-cutting time penalties should be easy for them to implement.

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I’m just going to point out that every game community has it’s own share of significant problems. I used to play Counter-Strike, a game that’s so competitive that some people play it for a living and attend tournaments with $1 million prize pools, and even in that game there’s a serious problem with hackers (it is estimated by some that about 1 of every 10 players use hacks in some way). Professional players have even gotten banned for it. So if something as serious as CS can have some major flaws, but still be taken seriously by a lot of people, it’s no surprise to me at all that Forza is riddled with idiot drivers. It’s exactly what I expected when I bought the game a month ago. However, I will point out that it is fixable, but what people need to realize is that the solutions can drastically change the gameplay and need to be taken with a lot of consideration before being added to the game. I’m personally glad that Forza doesn’t seem to have an issue with people using hacks, because that is a VERY hard problem to get rid of, 10x worse than any rammer could do.

While on the subject of solutions I think a good place to start at Yas Marina would be to add walls similar to the ones present on the last chicane at Catalunya to all of the hairpins / chicanes. As well as adding some tire walls on the sides of the track where the space is open, similar to the ones present on second straight at Le Mans after Mulsanne, forcing anybody who goes wide to lose time rejoining the track.

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Wow, Sticky Grass. I loved it, wish they would bring it back. First time it got me, I learned real quick to stay off it. I wish all the grass was sticky, even the fake stuff. Most of the corners cut have grass.

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I think they should do what they did in grid 2, if you cut a corner, your car was limited to a certain speed for a certain time, that way in Privite lobbies you can take that setting off if you want to

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Where did the sticky grass go? Bring back the sticky out of bounds area on Sebring as well as the dreaded red area on Catalunya. This will at least stop some of the corner cutters. I lost the lead on the last lap of Spa because second place thought he didn’t really need to stay on the track.

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Forza 3 and Forza 4 were a lot more unforgiving when it came to going off track. Get onto the wrong surface and your car comes to screeching halt likes it’s in molasses. It’s a shame the vocal minority in this case has the right idea. T10’s statistical metrics likely show a scenario where a majority of players are casuals who are doing things like this and instead of fixing the game, the cater to the “crowd” and actively ignore all the topics on here. You can hope for a philosophy change for Forza 7, but with many players driving like it’s Horizon all the time and a new game coming this fall, I wouldn’t hold your breath.

-k

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During production all the vocal majority seemed to need were two things, 1 rain and 2 for t10 to get rid of sticky grass because it doesnt exist in real life …oh and maybe a third , night time racing

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It’s true! Those things brought the most criticism.

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They take track cutting very serious in circuit racing “in real life”. So if you can not monitor it, sticky grass is the only answer.

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There are options other than sticky grass which are mentioned above. The time penalty is a standout and really appeals to me. Getting a time adjustment at the end of the race doesn’t seem to have any pitfalls does it?

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Only pitfall would be someone your in a close race with shoving you off the track in a cutting area on the last lap and them winning the race because of the adjusted time.