A polite retort.

[B_Wald_Big_Mek]

As the title suggests, I’d like to respond to a specific gripe some players have. I’ve seen it pop up in several threads recently, and it was thrown around a bit in the months after “Horizon” launched, too.

The complaint is: “Hey, these cars were in FM4!!! What the hell??”

Well, sirs and madams, in my humble opinion, THIS is “the hell”:

Forza 4, once all DLC is included, had something like 600 cars in it. 600 cars! I, like many others, played 4 from the day it released until the day XB1 came out, and didn’t come CLOSE to driving all of them. You couldn’t even have them all in your garage at the same time. Several cars in 4 did NOT belong on a racetrack (prius), but even most of THOSE were undeniably cool ('59 Caddy, '57 Bel Aire, Ford Country Squire, etc) and fun to cruise about in.

My point is this: if T10 were to respond to these complaints by releasing a game that had NO cars from FM4, they would have a hard time indeed finding enough cool, recognizable, mid-to-high-performance cars to put in this hypothetical game. Ppl would instead complain “where are all the staple Forza cars?? Where’s my Corvette? Where are my Ferraris, Lambos and Lotuses?”. And they would be right to do so.

That’s not to say there are NO cool cars they could add to the franchise, and if we’re to be honest, have done. The keen observer will notice every car pack has had a couple of new-to-forza vehicles, or at least new models, like the CRX Mugen in the Honda pack. Other Forzas had the CRX (was even a Unicorn in FH), but 5 has the REALLY COOL one now. By the way, did you know that Saul “Slash” Hudson, of Guns ‘n’ Roses, Slash’s Snakepit, and Velvet Revolver fame, once owned a black CRX? It was the 1st car he bought with his own $$. But I digress.

So, Forzanauts everywhere, be thankful for all our digital jalopies. Like you, I paid good money for the system, game and DLC, and want my money’s worth. When they add cars in DLC that were in 4, they’re most often cars I wanted regardless, so I’m happy.

I’m gonna go drive my DLC-that-was-also-DLC-in-FM4 '81 VW Scirocco now.

Please discuss, but for the love of All Good Things, be civil.

B-Wald out.

[K_Twenty_A1]

Anyone who thinks there should be no cars in fm5 that were in fn4 is just plain stupid. Of course we are gonna get some of the same cars. I personally totally see where your coming from and understand what your saying. There’s a lot of cars that were In Fm4 that I would like to see in fm5. My problem is the choice of some of the cars they are adding as dlc. There are a lot of new cars out now that should IMO be in the dlc. For example the c7 vette, BMW m4, new z28, new mustang, Alfa 4c and so on. There’s many many more new sports cars they could be adding, even some that were in horizon like the LFA nurburgring edition and BMW m3 gts I think it was called. Instead they give us useless cars like the hummer and transit van most recently. Those cars have no place in a track racing game. The only ppl that use them are the trolls looking to wreck ppl. Being that we can’t make a public cruise game we can’t even just go enjoy cruising around in cars like that with other ppl. Which makes their sole purpose in the game to be used to wreck ppl trying to race. Anyway there’s my 2 cents.

[Nelor]

@K_Twenty_A1

Anyone who thinks there should be no cars in fm5 that were in fn4 is just plain stupid. Of course we are gonna get some of the same cars. I personally totally see where your coming from and understand what your saying. There’s a lot of cars that were In Fm4 that I would like to see in fm5. My problem is the choice of some of the cars they are adding as dlc. There are a lot of new cars out now that should IMO be in the dlc. For example the c7 vette, BMW m4, new z28, new mustang, Alfa 4c and so on. There’s many many more new sports cars they could be adding, even some that were in horizon like the LFA nurburgring edition and BMW m3 gts I think it was called. Instead they give us useless cars like the hummer and transit van most recently. Those cars have no place in a track racing game. The only ppl that use them are the trolls looking to wreck ppl. Being that we can’t make a public cruise game we can’t even just go enjoy cruising around in cars like that with other ppl. Which makes their sole purpose in the game to be used to wreck ppl trying to race. Anyway there’s my 2 cents.

Well I agree with most of your post except with regards to the Van and Hummer. I think that they bring a different driving experience to the game.Have some fun with em! (Just don’t go online and crash on purpose) They are a novelty sure, but I enjoy mucking around in them just as much as anything else in the game. Unfortunately there will be wreckers online in the hoppers with them, but crashers will be there driving something else anyway. Also the transit Van is a painters favorite.

[VerrucktSchakal]

@K_Twenty_A1

Anyone who thinks there should be no cars in fm5 that were in fn4 is just plain stupid. Of course we are gonna get some of the same cars. I personally totally see where your coming from and understand what your saying. There’s a lot of cars that were In Fm4 that I would like to see in fm5. My problem is the choice of some of the cars they are adding as dlc. There are a lot of new cars out now that should IMO be in the dlc. For example the c7 vette, BMW m4, new z28, new mustang, Alfa 4c and so on. There’s many many more new sports cars they could be adding, even some that were in horizon like the LFA nurburgring edition and BMW m3 gts I think it was called. Instead they give us useless cars like the hummer and transit van most recently. Those cars have no place in a track racing game. The only ppl that use them are the trolls looking to wreck ppl. Being that we can’t make a public cruise game we can’t even just go enjoy cruising around in cars like that with other ppl. Which makes their sole purpose in the game to be used to wreck ppl trying to race. Anyway there’s my 2 cents.

how wrong you are. I for one have always enjoyed these cars in real life, and in Forza 4. I have no inclination of wrecking people, For that matter I hardly EVER go into online hoppers, so to say the only people who use them are trolls, is way off base.

[K_Twenty_A1]

@VerrucktSchakal

@K_Twenty_A1

Anyone who thinks there should be no cars in fm5 that were in fn4 is just plain stupid. Of course we are gonna get some of the same cars. I personally totally see where your coming from and understand what your saying. There’s a lot of cars that were In Fm4 that I would like to see in fm5. My problem is the choice of some of the cars they are adding as dlc. There are a lot of new cars out now that should IMO be in the dlc. For example the c7 vette, BMW m4, new z28, new mustang, Alfa 4c and so on. There’s many many more new sports cars they could be adding, even some that were in horizon like the LFA nurburgring edition and BMW m3 gts I think it was called. Instead they give us useless cars like the hummer and transit van most recently. Those cars have no place in a track racing game. The only ppl that use them are the trolls looking to wreck ppl. Being that we can’t make a public cruise game we can’t even just go enjoy cruising around in cars like that with other ppl. Which makes their sole purpose in the game to be used to wreck ppl trying to race. Anyway there’s my 2 cents.

how wrong you are. I for one have always enjoyed these cars in real life, and in Forza 4. I have no inclination of wrecking people, For that matter I hardly EVER go into online hoppers, so to say the only people who use them are trolls, is way off base.

For the overwhelming majority the only ppl that use them are trolls. If u hardly go into online hoppers then you wouldn’t know how many ppl do or don’t use them. IMO trucks like the hummer and transit van have no place being in a simulation racing game. They belong in a game like horizon. I for one would much prefer having a few more sports cars than these trucks. Vehicles like the srt jeep or Porsche SUV I can understand cuz they are still sporty but not a hummer.

[VerrucktSchakal]

@K_Twenty_A1

//snip

Just a little FYI, the Transit is raced quite often, so yes it does have a place. Just because for whatever reason you feel they don’t belong, Turn10 feels otherwise, as does the people who race them. I’ll leave it at that and move along.

Ford Transit Trophy | Braga | Manga 1

[DeathMetalRacer]

Most of the cars we get need to be in every Forza game because so many of them are iconic and a staple to any racing game. If we didn’t have any cars from previous games there would be little left to choose from.

[PTG_Ace_Ventura]

This was really unnecessary but I love that you referred to Saul Hudson as such. Let’s get the word out that us Jews can rock!

[B_Wald_Big_Mek]

@Ace Ventura PI

This was really unnecessary but I love that you referred to Saul Hudson as such. Let’s get the word out that us Jews can rock!

MAZELTOV! (plays guitar solo)

[silberc]

Good post but you are still off track. I have no qualms with Fm5 having fm4 cars. It’s the fact that they are trying to sell me something they sold me already. It’s been how many years since fm4 released? Since it stopped its DLC? They have barely added any new content in the game. On top of that, they are selling us the same cars we bought as DLC for the last game. What’s the point? In that case why not give us every car that has been in Forza? Does Microsoft not fund turn10? Sony is in a way worse spot financially yet PD can afford to license over 1k cars. All in house design. What’s Turn10s excuse?

[K_Twenty_A1]

@silberc

Good post but you are still off track. I have no qualms with Fm5 having fm4 cars. It’s the fact that they are trying to sell me something they sold me already. It’s been how many years since fm4 released? Since it stopped its DLC? They have barely added any new content in the game. On top of that, they are selling us the same cars we bought as DLC for the last game. What’s the point? In that case why not give us every car that has been in Forza? Does Microsoft not fund turn10? Sony is in a way worse spot financially yet PD can afford to license over 1k cars. All in house design. What’s Turn10s excuse?

The cars may be the same model of car but they have been updated and remodeled for fm5. U expect t10 employees to work for free or something?

You clearly don’t understand how long it takes to model cars. Every car in fm5 has been remodeled from the ground up or gone thru an extensive refresh from the old models. If I recall on an interview with Dan he said it takes about 3 months to make one car. They only have so many employees.

[rdo3]

@K_Twenty_A1

@silberc

Good post but you are still off track. I have no qualms with Fm5 having fm4 cars. It’s the fact that they are trying to sell me something they sold me already. It’s been how many years since fm4 released? Since it stopped its DLC? They have barely added any new content in the game. On top of that, they are selling us the same cars we bought as DLC for the last game. What’s the point? In that case why not give us every car that has been in Forza? Does Microsoft not fund turn10? Sony is in a way worse spot financially yet PD can afford to license over 1k cars. All in house design. What’s Turn10s excuse?

The cars may be the same model of car but they have been updated and remodeled for fm5. U expect t10 employees to work for free or something?

You clearly don’t understand how long it takes to model cars. Every car in fm5 has been remodeled from the ground up or gone thru an extensive refresh from the old models. If I recall on an interview with Dan he said it takes about 3 months to make one car. They only have so many employees.

dan said it takes 3 months, but he never said turn ten was modeling them. turn ten outsources alot of their modeling. if it take 3 months it would take 15 months to do 5 cars, yet they release a pack every month not every 15 months. and not every thing in the game is from scratch or they wouldn’t have had to fix the level 256 reset glitch. i’m not a painter but i hear some glitches from fm4 are in fm5 cars where you cant paint the same area of the same car in either game. do you realize how much time is wasted programming for forza vista? and todate i have seen a single forza vista thread. and that thread was a complaint about forza vista getting it wrong.

we shouldn’t expect turn ten to work for free? i paid as much (more actually) for fm5 than i did fm4. fm5 dosn’t have as much as fm4. turn ten expects me to pay as much, to work as much to get as much money. turn 10 expect me to work for free? its not my fault they waste budget (time and money). they can drop forza vista and put that budget tward getting all the racing features back in. look at the paint thread from today. alot of the painters have already become board and quit so drop painting. after all paint never won a race.

forza1 was the best forza yet. and it really was built from scratch. it was also $10 cheaper and ran on a celeron processor with 256kram. play forza 1. you had pitting options, you could choose fuel, tires, repairs all seperatly and see how much time each would cost you. if you had to pit with a lap to go for just a splash of gas and skip tires and repairs you could do it. damage options were all separate, tires, fuel, body, etc…, and thats in a game that was cheaper. it had tutorials to teach you how to drive. turn ten made a superior game on inferior hardware. and they did it with less than half the staff they have now. do i expect turn ten to work for free? no. i do expect them to earn my money which they seem to think i should give to them for free. if they had recompiled fm1 and released it it would have been a better game. game play trumps graphics imo.

[K_Twenty_A1]

@rdo3

@K_Twenty_A1

@silberc

Good post but you are still off track. I have no qualms with Fm5 having fm4 cars. It’s the fact that they are trying to sell me something they sold me already. It’s been how many years since fm4 released? Since it stopped its DLC? They have barely added any new content in the game. On top of that, they are selling us the same cars we bought as DLC for the last game. What’s the point? In that case why not give us every car that has been in Forza? Does Microsoft not fund turn10? Sony is in a way worse spot financially yet PD can afford to license over 1k cars. All in house design. What’s Turn10s excuse?

The cars may be the same model of car but they have been updated and remodeled for fm5. U expect t10 employees to work for free or something?

You clearly don’t understand how long it takes to model cars. Every car in fm5 has been remodeled from the ground up or gone thru an extensive refresh from the old models. If I recall on an interview with Dan he said it takes about 3 months to make one car. They only have so many employees.

dan said it takes 3 months, but he never said turn ten was modeling them. turn ten outsources alot of their modeling. if it take 3 months it would take 15 months to do 5 cars, yet they release a pack every month not every 15 months. and not every thing in the game is from scratch or they wouldn’t have had to fix the level 256 reset glitch. i’m not a painter but i hear some glitches from fm4 are in fm5 cars where you cant paint the same area of the same car in either game. do you realize how much time is wasted programming for forza vista? and todate i have seen a single forza vista thread. and that thread was a complaint about forza vista getting it wrong.

we shouldn’t expect turn ten to work for free? i paid as much (more actually) for fm5 than i did fm4. fm5 dosn’t have as much as fm4. turn ten expects me to pay as much, to work as much to get as much money. turn 10 expect me to work for free? its not my fault they waste budget (time and money). they can drop forza vista and put that budget tward getting all the racing features back in. look at the paint thread from today. alot of the painters have already become board and quit so drop painting. after all paint never won a race.

forza1 was the best forza yet. and it really was built from scratch. it was also $10 cheaper and ran on a celeron processor with 256kram. play forza 1. you had pitting options, you could choose fuel, tires, repairs all seperatly and see how much time each would cost you. if you had to pit with a lap to go for just a splash of gas and skip tires and repairs you could do it. damage options were all separate, tires, fuel, body, etc…, and thats in a game that was cheaper. it had tutorials to teach you how to drive. turn ten made a superior game on inferior hardware. and they did it with less than half the staff they have now. do i expect turn ten to work for free? no. i do expect them to earn my money which they seem to think i should give to them for free. if they had recompiled fm1 and released it it would have been a better game. game play trumps graphics imo.

I do understand your point but I do not agree with it. Clearly they have more than one person modeling cars which is why they model more than 5 cars every 15 months. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure micro$oft has a lot to do with the price if games. Just because there are cars in fm5 that were in fm4 doesn’t mean it should be cheaper. It’s still a new game. That’s like saying call of duty should be cheaper cuz it has a lot of the same guns the previous title had. I’ll state again u clearly don’t understand how long it takes to model the tracks and cars and the time constraints they were under by micro$oft to be a launch title. Your comparing a launch title game on a new console to fm4 of which the content was created over like 6 yrs worth if diff forza titles.

I will agree with one of your points tho. Forzsvista, should have been saved for the next firza title and they should have marshaled their recorces from that to more actual game content. Forzavista is cool but IMO the online features and actual content should have come first.

If your so disappointed ted with fm5 go sell your game and play fm1 again…

Edit: oh and btw I never said anything about t10 rebuilding the source code from the ground up. Which is why we still see some if the same bugs and glitches of past titles. They did however build from the ground up the tracks and many if the cars. Some if the cars if imagine they just refreshed to increase the poly count and interiors and so on. Nonetheless a lot of the game is brand soanking new.

[Kranktus]

@rdo3

@K_Twenty_A1

@silberc

Good post but you are still off track. I have no qualms with Fm5 having fm4 cars. It’s the fact that they are trying to sell me something they sold me already. It’s been how many years since fm4 released? Since it stopped its DLC? They have barely added any new content in the game. On top of that, they are selling us the same cars we bought as DLC for the last game. What’s the point? In that case why not give us every car that has been in Forza? Does Microsoft not fund turn10? Sony is in a way worse spot financially yet PD can afford to license over 1k cars. All in house design. What’s Turn10s excuse?

The cars may be the same model of car but they have been updated and remodeled for fm5. U expect t10 employees to work for free or something?

You clearly don’t understand how long it takes to model cars. Every car in fm5 has been remodeled from the ground up or gone thru an extensive refresh from the old models. If I recall on an interview with Dan he said it takes about 3 months to make one car. They only have so many employees.

dan said it takes 3 months, but he never said turn ten was modeling them. turn ten outsources alot of their modeling. if it take 3 months it would take 15 months to do 5 cars, yet they release a pack every month not every 15 months. and not every thing in the game is from scratch or they wouldn’t have had to fix the level 256 reset glitch. i’m not a painter but i hear some glitches from fm4 are in fm5 cars where you cant paint the same area of the same car in either game. do you realize how much time is wasted programming for forza vista? and todate i have seen a single forza vista thread. and that thread was a complaint about forza vista getting it wrong.

we shouldn’t expect turn ten to work for free? i paid as much (more actually) for fm5 than i did fm4. fm5 dosn’t have as much as fm4. turn ten expects me to pay as much, to work as much to get as much money. turn 10 expect me to work for free? its not my fault they waste budget (time and money). they can drop forza vista and put that budget tward getting all the racing features back in. look at the paint thread from today. alot of the painters have already become board and quit so drop painting. after all paint never won a race.

forza1 was the best forza yet. and it really was built from scratch. it was also $10 cheaper and ran on a celeron processor with 256kram. play forza 1. you had pitting options, you could choose fuel, tires, repairs all seperatly and see how much time each would cost you. if you had to pit with a lap to go for just a splash of gas and skip tires and repairs you could do it. damage options were all separate, tires, fuel, body, etc…, and thats in a game that was cheaper. it had tutorials to teach you how to drive. turn ten made a superior game on inferior hardware. and they did it with less than half the staff they have now. do i expect turn ten to work for free? no. i do expect them to earn my money which they seem to think i should give to them for free. if they had recompiled fm1 and released it it would have been a better game. game play trumps graphics imo.

Why don’t you go and play Forza 1 then? $10 cheaper you say? Have you ever heard of inflation? When I was a boy I could get a bag of lollies for twenty cents!

[K_Twenty_A1]

@Kranktus

@rdo3

@K_Twenty_A1

@silberc

Good post but you are still off track. I have no qualms with Fm5 having fm4 cars. It’s the fact that they are trying to sell me something they sold me already. It’s been how many years since fm4 released? Since it stopped its DLC? They have barely added any new content in the game. On top of that, they are selling us the same cars we bought as DLC for the last game. What’s the point? In that case why not give us every car that has been in Forza? Does Microsoft not fund turn10? Sony is in a way worse spot financially yet PD can afford to license over 1k cars. All in house design. What’s Turn10s excuse?

The cars may be the same model of car but they have been updated and remodeled for fm5. U expect t10 employees to work for free or something?

You clearly don’t understand how long it takes to model cars. Every car in fm5 has been remodeled from the ground up or gone thru an extensive refresh from the old models. If I recall on an interview with Dan he said it takes about 3 months to make one car. They only have so many employees.

dan said it takes 3 months, but he never said turn ten was modeling them. turn ten outsources alot of their modeling. if it take 3 months it would take 15 months to do 5 cars, yet they release a pack every month not every 15 months. and not every thing in the game is from scratch or they wouldn’t have had to fix the level 256 reset glitch. i’m not a painter but i hear some glitches from fm4 are in fm5 cars where you cant paint the same area of the same car in either game. do you realize how much time is wasted programming for forza vista? and todate i have seen a single forza vista thread. and that thread was a complaint about forza vista getting it wrong.

we shouldn’t expect turn ten to work for free? i paid as much (more actually) for fm5 than i did fm4. fm5 dosn’t have as much as fm4. turn ten expects me to pay as much, to work as much to get as much money. turn 10 expect me to work for free? its not my fault they waste budget (time and money). they can drop forza vista and put that budget tward getting all the racing features back in. look at the paint thread from today. alot of the painters have already become board and quit so drop painting. after all paint never won a race.

forza1 was the best forza yet. and it really was built from scratch. it was also $10 cheaper and ran on a celeron processor with 256kram. play forza 1. you had pitting options, you could choose fuel, tires, repairs all seperatly and see how much time each would cost you. if you had to pit with a lap to go for just a splash of gas and skip tires and repairs you could do it. damage options were all separate, tires, fuel, body, etc…, and thats in a game that was cheaper. it had tutorials to teach you how to drive. turn ten made a superior game on inferior hardware. and they did it with less than half the staff they have now. do i expect turn ten to work for free? no. i do expect them to earn my money which they seem to think i should give to them for free. if they had recompiled fm1 and released it it would have been a better game. game play trumps graphics imo.

Why don’t you go and play Forza 1 then? $10 cheaper you say? Have you ever heard of inflation? When I was a boy I could get a bag of lollies for twenty cents!

Good point, not just inflation but the cost of oil which affects the price if absolutely everything.

[MiMiC920]

and licensing of new cars is expensive… we forget that they have to pay a lot of real money to use these cars.

in time…look how much they have already added to the game since launch. even though so many people wine about should have been there from day one…regardless of your opinion, they are moving forward constanly

[CPU_R_SAZAKI]

@MiMiC920

in time…look how much they have already added to the game since launch. even though so many people wine about should have been there from day one…regardless of your opinion, they are moving forward constanly

For once, I agree with you. I wouldn’t have said that at all when FM5 came out, but I do think that T10 is trying to make FM5 a lot better than it was at launch.

[B_Wald_Big_Mek]

I had Transits in FM4 and FH. I gave 'em “FedEx” paintjobs and raced 'em, legit and clean (or, in the case of FH, relatively clean by comparison).

[DinoDaddow]

I could never come close to driving all the cars that were present in Forza 4. There were so many duplicates of cars as well that it was really just insane. I think Forza 5 has a well rounded list of cars so far and I’m sure it’ll just get better.

[PTG_Ace_Ventura]

@B_Wald_Big_Mek

MAZELTOV! (plays guitar solo)

L’chaim!

@SlimyTurt1e

I could never come close to driving all the cars that were present in Forza 4. There were so many duplicates of cars as well that it was really just insane. I think Forza 5 has a well rounded list of cars so far and I’m sure it’ll just get better.

You haven’t seen duplicates until you have seen Gran Turismo’s 487 different Skyline variations.