Why are most of my rivals times gone?

I recently picked up this game again after a bunch of months not playing it. The thing I spent most of my time on in this game was rivals. I really like striving to get a perfect run, and trying to tune cars and testing out my tunes by seeing how I do with them on some of my favorite routes to run Rivals on.

Anyways, having come back to the game, I am finding that most of my rivals times have disappeared. It’s not all of them, but it’s quite a lot. There’s tracks I spent many hours trying to perfect runs on, and the game thinks I simply don’t have a time on the track at all. This is really disappointing.

For one thing, at the time that I stopped playing, I believe I had a top 1% time in at least A-class on every track (as well as a lot in other classes too, but A class is my favorite), and I also had a whole bunch in the top 500, and even a few in the top 100. I’m not the very best Forza player or anything, but I was pretty proud of those rankings/times, and it’s pretty annoying to see them simply gone.

For another thing, I don’t remember what my times were. So now, coming back to the game, I have no baseline for what my times were before in a lot of these races—meaning I can’t calibrate how good my times are now compared to my past self in a lot of cases. This is frustrating for someone who spends most of his time on the game perfecting times against himself.

What is going on? I understand that at some point since I’d stopped playing, there was a removal of cheat times. But none of my times were achieved with any form of cheating. I don’t understand why a lot of my times would’ve been removed as part of an effort to remove fake times, and I find it a bit outrageous if that’s why they were removed—especially when the cheating times were always quite obvious (at least at the top of the leaderboards, and if someone cheated for some random middling time then it hardly really matters).

Leaderboards had a wipe done and some legit times were caught in the wipe.

Thread on here about it

Short story is they are incompetent in this area and could careless about the state of the leaderboards or the impact it has on the players or game.

2 Likes

Thanks! That’s helpful information, and does seem to be what happened. I find that pretty outrageous though. My times were legitimate, and for them to be irreversibly removed due to a miscalculation is quite egregious. At the very least, I don’t see how anyone would’ve removed tons of times using some algorithm without having a backup made in case the algorithm swept in legitimate times.

1 Like

As been pointed out, there was a massive cleanup on Rivals and sadly many legit times were removed as well. I too have never had any cheat times on there (apart from one massive jump that wasn’t even a cheat but simply a being launched into the stratosphere which actually landed for once without a fail - expected that to go of course) but have also lost one or two others.

Just poor programming from the Devs as usual as I reckon they probably wrote some Algorithm to do this instead of just looking with their own eyes and seeing they obvious cheaters ( 1 or 10 sec runs on longer races etc.)

I would say submit a ticket but we all know how pointless that would be.

I know for certain that they can, if they really want to, go back previous saves to find data. Had a previous save from 6 months old in FH4 at least find all my missing cars from a load fail. It’s all down to how much they care to do so. And sad that it took them that long.

Manually cleaning the leaderboards is not an option considering how many tracks, classes and times there are. If they went at it manually it would literally take them years and be more error prone then doing it automatically. Not to mention any manual work cannoy be easily repeated. The issue is whomever has scripted the auto purging has done a terrible job.

I also feel they have put a greater emphasis on purging all illigimate times opposed to targeting the top 100 which are most notably. I think if they focused solely on the top 100 and got this 99.99% right that most players would be somewhat satisfied. That’s because although it’s not desirable to have all leaderboards littered with illegitimate times, it’s much less obvious to detect illegitimate times outside of the top 100.

In essence I agree it would take time but by my reckoning there’s 558 Rival Race events to look at (93 events over 6 classes) so I doubt it would take that long for a team to go over these top 100 at least - though the cheater list probably spills well over that top 100 in most cases - and just delete those.

Basically, in any race event, anything that looks ridiculous, say a D class in a track of 1.6miles with anything under 20 sec (just as an example - I haven’t looked at how long it would take with say 100 odd mph limit with decent aero / weight on a tricky track would take) should be on the hit list. They just need to work out what’s a theoretical time and aim for anything well under that.

Let’s say a team of 5 spent a whole week manually going through each leaderboard and manually removed illegitimate times from the top 100. All it would take is a matter of days before all this hard work went to waste as new illegitimate times would appear.

Regardless what they say they still haven’t fixed the root problems causing these times to appear. This will be evident in a few weeks time when the brand new leaderboards for the brand new expansion will be polluted with illegitimate times.

It wouldn’t take very long. I reckon I could do it with a delete button within a week, doing my day job at the same time. If you have an incompetent cheat in 50,000th on the leaderboard no one cares. It’s tidying up the top 100-200 which is what’s required.

2 Likes

Agreed - a week of manually doing this, perhaps two or three if they worked out the theoretical times first and just used that to apply the removal, just to have new illegitimate times pop in.

But after months of saying they were going to do it, they’ve ended up with something that is still broken, causes many issues for legitimate times and still have the issue of the illegitimate times appearing.

Work out the theoretical minimum, apply a margin for error - say 10%, and just automatically not allow anything under that.

2 Likes

Sadly it just shows their incompetence in this area and is very similar to the AI in this game. It really does seems like they could careless about either of these things.

Again I agree - they couldn’t care less for their loyal fan-base who are dwindling rapidly at this stage. It all started to go downhill with FH4 and has now reached and fallen off the cliff edge with FH5.

1 Like

Not like anything will come of this but I would happily solve this problem automatically for PGG free of charge if they could share with me what data and challenges they are working with.

I know they have enough information to replay any ghost and that they record the time/class/car/pi for each time posted on the leaderboards along with the track distance. They also have the x/y/z coordinates for each track. This is all the data required to determine whether a time is illegitimate or not.

2 Likes

Totally - Even I, with my tiny modicum of programming knowledge, along with all the relevant data that they obviously hold, could do this in a few days maybe. With a whole team and all the data at their fingertips, you’de think they could have done this in a matter of hours instead of a half-“attempted” result over months that solves nothing in the long run.

1 Like

Well, it took me about 5-6 hours of gameplay, but I did manage to get back to top 1% on every track in A-Class (minus a couple of the ultra-long races, which I don’t really bother doing rivals for, though I do think I used to have top 1% times for them, and minus Hot Wheels since I had previously stopped playing before that).

I’m sure a lot of my times now are pretty far off my previous times—I had so many to redo that I basically just moved on upon getting top 1%, even if I knew I could do a lot better. But at least I was able to get back some semblance of what was lost.

I legitimately had to redo my rivals time for about 50 races that the game had deleted my time for, just in A-Class. I don’t race the other classes as much, so I don’t even know for sure what is lost there—probably a lot. I resorted to using the Bone Shaker for most of the A-Class ones I redid, which felt a bit dirty, but you have to use something really good if you’re trying to quickly redo 50 rivals times.

And I just want to note that having to redo about 50 A-Class races is crazy. That means that the game deleted more than half of my A-Class rivals times. The fact that somehow an irreversible “miscalculation” deleted more than half of my times—all of which were legitimate—is breathtaking.

2 Likes

Hey team,

I’m just reporting our player metrics are up 15% this week and that we hit our target. I would like to thank Mike Brown specifically for suggesting we delete legitimate leaderboard times in order to encourage our player base to redo them.

Edit: sorry posted this in wrong place

3 Likes