I’m asking this as innocently and honestly as I can. The way I see it, if you use someone else’s tune, you’re pretty much cheating (morally), and using someone else’s design is really not exciting at all. This is why I try to make my own tune and design for every car I truly like in Forza 6, which mainly are the GT cars, and I feel like this has made the game much more enjoyable for me, since I can truly call the car mine and I can take full credit for my work and performance online.
I’m not saying that to sound boastful, but I really want to know why the majority of players are ok with just riding off of other peoples’ work. I play in the GT endurance lobby almost every day and at least 95% of players are using a car that is not their own. Even the top leaderboard guys are guilty of this; I’ll see 3/5 of them using a LeeCampbell or Faithless tune on their cars.
What’s making you guys hesitate? Both tuning and designing are not hard at all, they just require a little bit of time (which I’m fully aware that some people on here have little of). I don’t see how these players can call themselves “experienced” when all they’re doing is pressing A on “download tune/design” and putting no effort in themselves. How does that present any challenge? Needless to say, whenever I lose to someone using a tune that isn’t theirs, I don’t really consider it a loss.
I’m not creative at all, and the best I can do in the paint shop is a shoddy pair of racing stripes. So I prefer to use a racing style livery from the “storefront”
I like this comparison. Good call. Sure pro drivers give their team feedback but they still aren’t the one making the adjustments or in most cases even deciding what to adjust based on the feedback. Similarly, I’ve had someone give me feedback on a tune I have shared and ask if I could adjust it for them. Sure, no problem! More downloads and uses and possibly another 5 star tune with very little work. Why wouldn’t I help a guy out?
I have tried painting and as a freind once said to me “my design artisticly offended him” which prompted him to make me some decent decals. People who can paint well are extremely skilled and I love using authentic paints giving me a more emersive experince. It’s completely irrelvant who panited the car and using other peoples paints gives me enjoyment.
Time and skill is what’s needed to create a top tune. I do not have the skill to feed back to myself the relevant information I would need to tweak and improve a tune. I do not have the time to tweak a tune, I spend all my time practicing and trying keep pace with my friends. I race with some of the fastest people on here so that takes alot of my time up.
T10 don’t often get things absolutely bang on but sharing tunes and paints from the community is there secret weapon. It opens the game up to everyone, it means some casual racer can bang a tune on and a paint and be part of the crowd. The elitest attitude that continues to alienate new players in this game is getting rather old.
For the record it’s perfectly acceptable and enjoyable to
Use a paint
A tune
Tcs/stm
Abs
Auto
Manual
Anyone who thinks the above is
Cheating
Immoral
Or in any way detracts from the the enjoyment of the game is simply trying to justify there own elitest attitude to the game that often puts them at a disadvantage to everyone else and should really put there effort into game that rewards elitests
Time consumption, lack of talent, or lack of interest. Still, the creators of the shared content do deserve the recognition as I’m sure they put a lot of time into it.
I personally believe that people should at least learn tuning to help them understand why a vehicle acts the way it does and possibly help them drive better. Still, nothing wrong with downloading someone else’s work.
I would look at it like this: do you live in a home? yes ok… have you made it from the ground an up? no… ok then you can’t really call it your own home even if you paid for it(in forza’s case you download it and the uploader gets a payout)
now that didn’t make sense did it?
that’s how I would look at it if it boils down using another mans/womans work. I do it everyday in everything I do. not just in a game
and what I pay for I do call it my own because I paid for it. In forza’s case you download it so the uploader gets a pay out.
did I make the paint/tune, no! is it mine after I downloaded it? yes…
just my opinion on the topic.
(I do make allot of tunes and some paintjobs but I only share it with friends tho… lol)
One - you apparently have a misconception of why people use others’ creations, blaming them for “cheating (morally)” when in reality, those are available normally with a Share of the creator’s Designs, Vinyls or Tunes. They are GIVEN to the general public for their free use, with system payments to the originator via credits for the number of downloads, uses and liking the item.
Two - Those who create the items (See the Paint Booth or Tuner’s Garage forums here. There are players who enjoy the creation of the stunning artwork or fine-tuning a car more than actual racing, so they’re part of groups which create themed liveries or create and share their tunes for the benefit of others.
I think it might be of benefit to look back at the history of Forza Motorsport, read some of the posts in previous versions of the FM series like in Fantasy Paint or Race Paint sub-forums, or the Tuner’s Lounge. Look at the cooperative creations, the teams of painters (and photographers) who assist others who wish to learn, plus all the Tuners who take their time to work out problems for folks who don’t quite grasp the process of tuning.
The Forza Motorsport franchise of games is NOT about cheating as you’ve accused people of doing, but cooperatively working together for the betterment of understanding motorsports from the tires up, and making the vehicles distinctive and pleasing to the eye in races and Forzatography.
I build my own race paints, vinyl’s and tunes all of which I share and like you I enjoy using my own work when racing, however like most enthusiastic amateurs I bow before the truly talented in all aspects in the Forza universe. There are true talents out there I can only hope to be a poor imitation of but much as I admire the fantastic paints out there I am first and foremost a racer and the truth of the matter is no matter how good a driver I might be I will not be competitive without the best tunes being available to me
This is true for most of us so should my talent for racing be diminished because my tuning abilities do not reach the same levels I mean should Lewis Hamilton be supplied with Mercedes race tuned engines while Nico Rosberg is handed a bag of tools and told get on with it I think not. So no, people who use other peoples paints, vinyl’s and tunes are not cheats and I strongly object that anybody should even infer that of the hard working and loyal Forza faithful some who have been with the franchise for its full 10 years. The whole idea of sharing your own ideas and designs with everybody is a part of all that is Forza and I hope that never changes but I do suggest that you spend a few more years being part of our community before you decide to criticise it.
Should you then find that we are still not up to your principled ideals I suggest you go back to whatever racing game you came from and leave our Forza family free of your basically insulting assertions.
I build my own race paints, vinyl’s and tunes all of which I share and like you I enjoy using my own work when racing, however like most enthusiastic amateurs I bow before the truly talented in all aspects in the Forza universe. There are true talents out there I can only hope to be a poor imitation of but much as I admire the fantastic paints out there I am first and foremost a racer and the truth of the matter is no matter how good a driver I might be I will not be competitive without the best tunes being available to me
This is true for most of us so should my talent for racing be diminished because my tuning abilities do not reach the same levels I mean should Lewis Hamilton be supplied with Mercedes race tuned engines while Nico Rosberg is handed a bag of tools and told get on with it I think not. So no, people who use other peoples paints, vinyl’s and tunes are not cheats and I strongly object that anybody should even infer that of the hard working and loyal Forza faithful some who have been with the franchise for its full 10 years. The whole idea of sharing your own ideas and designs with everybody is a part of all that is Forza and I hope that never changes but I do suggest that you spend a few more years being part of our community before you decide to criticise it.
Should you then find that we are still not up to your principled ideals I suggest you go back to whatever racing game you came from and leave our Forza family free of your basically insulting assertions.
The way I see it. It comes down to "sharing’', which I would say it’s a pretty nice word. Thanks to all who do it, for those of us who may not want to.
Thanks for all the replies guys. A lot of good, solid points were made, which is why I made this topic in the first place.
I feel that I should clear a few things up:
Maybe “cheating” wasn’t the right word to use. A better term would be “free-riding”, which technically isn’t cheating but still is immoral. I know it’s silly to talk about what’s immoral in this game or not, but it makes me disappointed seeing all these well-known racers using other people’s work to get their fast times. With Forza being as creative a game as it is, and I’ve been here for a looong time, believe me, I have always expected that the majority of players would at least attempt to learn each aspect of the game and improve at it. I never meant to say that I look down on those who don’t tune/paint, I just wish they would give it a try.
I don’t think I’m an elite in any way; I don’t post the times necessary to be considered one. The whole reason why I asked this was to, first of all, hear different opinions, but secondly, because I get wholehearted enjoyment from tuning and painting the cars that I love. People like to think that spending 2 hours on a design is not as fun as 2 hours racing online, but it is. Once you have the vision in your head and you’re in the zone I’d say it’s as fun as being in first place in a competitive lobby. If you think that tuning or painting is a chore then that’s the first idea you need to fix.
“I tried it once and I’m not good at it.” C’mon, don’t give me that “one-and-done” attitude. Tuning and painting are things that you have to practice at to get better at, just like driving. I remember back when I was a wee tike on Forza 3, I hadn’t a clue how to tune or paint, but I still every once in awhile tried them out. Then in Forza 4 I took up painting seriously, and after a few months I had a storefront full of 5 star designs. Then in Forza 6 I finally decided to take up tuning (yes, it was really that recently!) and while I’m not the fastest driver in the world, I’m posting a consistent amount of top 100-200 worldwide times. The point is, once you set aside the time, it really all falls into place after awhile, and then you can tune and paint so effortlessly and quickly that the technique becomes an afterthought.
The whole “sharing” aspect that you are mentioning…doesn’t exist anymore. That era existed in Forza 3 and 4 when you could literally gift anything you wanted to another player, which made it really easy for new painters and tuners to learn and grow quickly. Now, all you have is a list of tunes or designs, already made, and locked, so you can’t inspect them to see what the creators did. How are you supposed to learn from that? I want Forza to be an openly-interactive community just as much as the next guy, but unfortunately the game won’t allow that to be achieved.
I’m not saying “learn to tune/paint, or you’re a loser.” I just think that a lot of people shy away from them because they don’t understand them enough. I know this because I used to be like that too. But after I took them up and learned how simple they are, I want other people to discover that too and feel the same excitement about them as I do.
“Free-riding?” That’s a ridiculous term to use. Every single top time you see is the result of either hundreds of laps of practice, or a top driver who already put in the effort required to consistently run top times. If this free-riding phenomenon were happening I think it would be safe to assume that we’d probably see the top 500-1000 drivers on any leaderboard all within a second or two of the leader using leaderboard tunes. Funny enough though we don’t see it. The truth is the average Forza driver would probably be lucky to get within 5 seconds a lap within the top guys driving the very same leaderboard cars. So, no, the top guys are not “free-riding” when using tunes proven to work the best in order to shave every single millisecond they can off their times. If anything, it actually makes the top times more impressive if everybody is using leaderboard cars/tunes because that means it essentially turns into a spec competition.
Tuning also takes a lot of time and experimentation to do. Time which many others, including myself, would much rather spend improving driver skill. I actually made a similar post about this a month ago.
I’ll end with this; maybe if people put less emphasis on learning how to tune and paint and more emphasis on how to drive the online lobbies might not be the crash fests that they are.
Once you get into the, let’s say, top 50 people worldwide, the difference in driving skill is so small that a tune can make or break a top leaderboard time. Driver skill is important, I even posted in the thread you brought up defending that, but to say that tunes are irrelevant is completely insane. At it’s very core, the idea of “I’m going to make myself faster by using someone else’s tune” is free-riding. But like I’ve been saying. that point is completely siily since we’re in a video game forum. I said it just to say it and present an opinion.
I wish people would read my whole post(s) instead of finding one thing they don’t like and reacting to it.
Free-riding is immoral. There’s no debate in that. But talking about what’s immoral in a video game is about as necessary as talking about what’s PC on Fox news. The point of this post was not to talk about stuff being immoral, it was just a small point I gave to introduce the main topic. Even though tunes on this game are sold willingly and voluntarily, using them to get top leaderboard times is still riding off of someone else’s work to achieve things, which, in my humble opinion, is not respectable. It’s something that I’ve never found tasteful, so I made this post asking why so many people seem to not care at all about it.
Maybe I’m a d-bag, that’s definitely a possibility. Maybe it’s the answer, but does that mean I can’t express my opinion on here? I haven’t insulted anyone here at all, so there’s no reason to become so offended.
If you’re going to cherry-pick quotes and not consider the entire post as a whole, then please leave what’s supposed to be a sophisticated discussion.
