Update 6 penalty system may make break checking popular

Forza Motorsport Forza Motorsport 2023 FM 2023 Discussion
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It seems extremely obvious to me that the penalty system after update 6.0 gets much more strict and harsh than before, however, still cannot correctly determine which party is at fault. It always judges the car behind at fault no matter what the cause is:

If the front car do multiple line change in straight to block the car behind (which is absolutely illegal and the front car should be at fault), Forza penalty system gives the car behind penalty.

If the leading car break at corner exit (which makes absolutely no sense) causing the other car to rear end, Forza penalty system gives the car behind penalty.

If the leading car change line in mid corner or turn exit when the car behind is partially overlapping (which should be leading cars fault in real world racing), the car behind gets the penalty from Forza.

Now I can imagine a smart and toxic online multiplayer lobby trick would be intentionally break checking at straight or at corner apex, so your opponent would rear end you and get a penalty…

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Feedback Request: Forza Race Regulations penalty issue examples
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I just want this system to leave the game, if peoples want to drive nasty, so they’re going to drive nasty, a penalty isn’t going to stop them.

The only way for stop this is to make no collision race, and i don’t want it at all.

Peoples who have a sportmanship mind doesn’t need a penalty system on a game for drive clean.

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Although I agree with all of your other points mentioned, one I cannot fully agree with:

If it’s an intentional brake check, okay.
But sometimes you need to make a small correction to your line (with a small tap on the brakes) to make sure you improve your exit line. This is in no way against the rules.
If the car behind ends up hitting the car ahead, it’s fully their mistake for not leaving enough room to react because that’s part of respectful driving. Even when they are on a better line and already accelerating for the corner exit.

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The game should be capable of knowing purpose brake checking. The game has the dynamic line that knows what speed each car is capable of doing safely and not loosing grip/sliding. The the guy in front is below by a certain MPH(that could be the debatable part) then they are going to slow. Conversely when the guy slams into you from behind and his line a solid red then its all on him.

I also think the time penalty should be based on the consequence to the front car. So if the guy causes you to be forced all the way off the track into gravel and you lose a ton of time then they should be hit accordingly meaning 5,10,15, even 20 seconds if needed.

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I think this is kind of a preview maybe… if penalty system get better at the next update and get more fair and logical then I’m totally agreed with more harsh not only penalties but also more harsh rank and safety changes.

Races should be taken more seriously… if community wants fun then maybe adding hoppers with easier penalty system can be implemented.

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To be honest after racing tonight and getting penalties constantly for getting hit and pushed off the track I’m really disheartened. I just want to race and currently you aren’t stopping the rwmmers and the people just wanting to race are copping the penalties. Fix it or ditch it

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Wouldn’t have said it better :+1:. And as you said, it’s kinda all or nothing in order for it to work as intended. We’ll see …

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I got my post removed because I criticized the penalty system to be even more stupid in 6.0
I don’t know if there is some kind of bug introduced with the new update but I got rammed two time from behind at very high speed and I got a nasty penalty both time. in both case I was breaking to take a slow turn and the player behind me did not care to slow down and just ram me at full speed.

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It is your job as the car behind to not hit the other car. That is why pretty much all penalty systems favour punishing the one behind.

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The game can’t divine human intent though.

What happens when the car in front is afraid of yellow and the car behind knows they can push way harder than the line suggests? And this isn’t even an hypothetical, this happens with the AI all the time.

You seem to suggest you’d resolve that by punishing both, but to me it looks like a racing incident with no fault. And if we can’t agree on that, a machine will never be able to resolve it either.

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That’s exactly why i don’t want a penalty system, peoples seems to have high expectations, like if real peoples was looking on the race for deserve penalty.
But at the end that’s just a program who try do “his best” for give the penalty.

For sure when we look at what we have now, it can be improved a lot, i think.

But they’re a limit on a program, it would never be 100% accurate, and still being unfair on the jugement sometimes

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It may never be 100% accurate but the penalty system should be in place and should evolve with every update. Otherwise this game is not much different from FM7 where no proper racing existed in public multiplayer.

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Penalty system doesn’t matter (except for corner cutting) as far as the matchmaking system works properly.

Rammers should not get into clean racers lobbies.

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FM7 was a preview, a beta. This game should’ve been a polished variant of that, not the questionable calls that make you wonder if the trackside officials asked the nearest uninterested person who they throught was at fault using nothing but a single toy car and random hand gestures.

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I understand what you meant by correction at corner exit, but what I mean by “the leading car break at corner exit” is literally breaking instead of lifting. It is common to lift the throttle to correct your exit line, but I do not think breaking is normal and I am afraid that even professional real world drivers cannot avoid rear ending if the car in front suddenly break at exit…

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This is absolutely incorrect.

Motorsports racing rules say it is BOTH car’s responsibility to avoid collision. The car in front should achieve this by claiming and maintaining a racing line. The car behind should achieve this by respecting the racing line chosen by the car in front.

You see, racing line is the key in motorsport racing law. Just like in real world routine road driving, keeping in your lane is the key and if you do an lane change causing another car to hit you, it is your fault no matter you are in front of or behind the other car.

In motorsport, racing lines serve the same purpose as road lanes. Why people not simply draw lanes on the track? That’s because racing lines are dynamic and context dependent, for example, in certain corner, outside entry → late apex → inside exit can be a racing line, while inside entry → early apex → outside exit can be another racing line.

As I said, both cars are responsible for racing safely and the front car’s responsibility is to claim a racing line and keep it:

For example, on a straight, racing rules only allow the front car to do one line change. If the car behind is approaching you on a straight, you are allowed to change your line once to either create difficulty for his passing or occupy a better entry of the following corner, however, you change to this racing line means you claim this line and tell your opponent free to drive other lines. If you do a second line change and your opponent rear end you, it is your fault because you drive into your opponent’s line.

Another example: you are leading and your opponent is partially overlapping with you in a corner. You need to keep your racing line and he needs to respect yours and not driving into yours. However, if you, for example, switch from outside exit to inside exit and causing your opponent who is already at the inside exit line to hit you, then it is your fault even you are in front.

I 100% understand that many online Forza players do believe it is always the behind car’s fault. However, that is totally wrong and I really think Forza’s should provide racing rule lessons before allowing people to enter multiplayer lobbies…

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If car B can take turn 1 faster than car A, and before the turn car B is behind car A, its up to car B to safely pass car A, even if car B cannot take turn 1 at their ideal speed. Save that glorious speed on turn 1 for the next lap.

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Cool. Shame penalty systems don’t work that way.

As I said before…

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FWIW, I’d like to see the penalty system broken down into two different categories that can be toggled on/off individually: one for contact, one for track limits.

I do a fair bit of league racing, and we’re all capable and willing to respect each other on track, leave room and not ram each other. And we always keep penalties turned off because of how seemingly random and arbitrary they can be.

But i do think it would be nice to enable penalties for track limits violations only, to help keep everyone honest, as sometimes when you’re pushing it can be easy to just cut that chicane a little, or run that little bit farther out on that exit curb to carry a bit more speed. Of course, in FRR’s current state, track limits violation penalties can come off as a bit arbitrary themselves, so there’s definitely still work to be done.

Maybe instead of trying to add 0.8s here or 1.2s there for track limits infringements, do it like a real race series: first two infringements, you receive a warning. Third time, you get a warning and a black and white flag, meaning that if you do it a fourth time, you’ll receive a 5s penalty. A fifth violation is a 10s penalty, and so on. As an option, the lobby host could adjust how strictly the limitations are enforced as well as the severity of the punishments by choosing from different preset menu options.

I don’t expect it to ever happen with this game, but it’s nice to imagine.

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It is incomparably better. I can still do better.