Gameplay - Broken Penalty system - Ramming is Meta

Hi,

We all know the penalty system is not working as expected but what is happening in this video (link below) is unbelievable: Player deliberately rams multiple people and not a single penalty is given.
How could that be possible? It seems like the only viable way to play this game is ramming.
Why not a single word about the broken penalty system in the last forza monthly?!

Link to the original post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/forza/s/BaZSktVHVR

UPDATE - reposting from another thread

[…] there is no incentive to race consistently clean because:

  • there is no reward, no leaderboards, no stats, nothing
  • matchmaking is wrong, you must match by sr first then skill
  • rookies start at S after 2 races. The rating is too generous. Reset the sr for everybody and make them start at C. Make them work for an S.
  • we need lobbies with minimum SR. May it be A at max. Let rhe rammers play the qualifiers lobbies for the rest of their life.
  • Add a radar! Like the one in ACC. The spotters are quite useless.

Find ramming a problem a lot, you get a better run off a bend and then they come across the track to ram you to stop you passing and then the game gives you the penalty points, or someone dives down the inside of you on a bend smacking you off of the track and again you get points for the trouble

3 Likes

They need to change how the rating system works along with penalties. Currently 12 seconds is a DQ, thats hard to get even for the best rammers in a lobby. For a top tier rating, 4 seconds of penalties should be a DQ (as an example) IMO, even that is high for the S-4900s, but with massive penalties for a tire too far off track, it seems realistic.
As the ratings decrease the DQ cap increases to level the field for legitimately bad drivers. No reason fast drivers should lose the race because they pass a car who gets upset for getting passed and puts them into a wall. Or because someone cant drive well and smashes them on the 1st corner.
The safety rating should also be priority for matchmaking. Right now you can win every race while also pushing every person off the track and do that race after race, But have a B-4900 and be the only one with multiple legitimate penalties in a libby with good drivers.

7 Likes

I think hitting another car on purpose on a straight should be automatic DQ. You can see the cars do it. They know precisely what they are doing. Also, remove their credits and level gains for their car during the race.

5 Likes

Forza devs need to compromise here. There are two groups of drivers, casuals and sim style competitive.

There should be two multiplayer lobbies that cater to each group of players. Simstyle competitive racing should have very harsh penalties for off track infractions and contact with vehicles. Damage should be ramped up significantly as well. Front end and rear end damage should have consequences on the car and driver. Make it rewarding for racing clean. Rubbing is racing, but ramming, and side bumping cars off track are all intentional acts of race sabotage. I like the idea another person mentioned above. DQ should happen much quicker. 12 seconds is really just 3-4 intentional high-speed contact with other cars, and that is too many.

The current multiplayer penalty system is fine for a more casual racer, but anyone with competitive drive and mutual respect of the other cars and racers on the track, hates this current system.

Forza wants to be taken seriously. So, start getting serious about the way multiplayer rewards and punishes track behavior. The folks that just want to ruin the experience for others should have their own minor leagues to play bumper cars in.

7 Likes

The penalty system definitely needs some reworking and a “flag system” needs to be implemented. GT7 penalizes on track which is good for their community, but it’s not going to stop rammers on Forza. With a proper “flag system” the penalty system need to first be able to better determine what is intentional and what it is accident. Let’s face it motorsports is full contact and it happens but they are so many times that even the most blatant, disruptive and outright unfair ramming and illegal track limit usage is used and goes unpunished. Anything that deviates another racer from the track or of their line after contact should be a penalty that stops ramming, bad dive bombs and the subtle dirty moves used by really good drivers. Road Ohio is the best example of bad track limits you can cut turn 1’s pit exit every lap and not get a penalty in real life they’d disqualify you for such an action, and yet on Suzuka you can’t push the limits because 1 tire over the curb roller a baby hair it’s a .800 second penalty when in real life from tour to GT to F1 it’s 2 tires. Then there’s the penalties served. They should not be at the end of the race placement does not matter and I can see a world where Turn 10 is all about the money not the experience, because “rammers spend money too” but they can easily end a die hard or fair racers experience. You better believe there’s a chance that people can get deterred from an unfair experience. The penalties should be harsh because in real life accident or not; in real life “if you end another persons race even a little bit you get sent to the pits!” That’s the idea of the flag system if it’s an accidental or subtle dirty move (nudging, unclean dive bombs and forcing) or a ram that ruins the line [Red/White Flag]; the penalty time given should be forcefully served in the pits once it is given a computer system should force a person off track as they near the pits and serve the time. If the unsportsmanlike action occurs by the same driver then penalty should result in an automatic 5 second penalty same as anytime after. If it happens 4 times in one race there should be an automatic disqualification. Deliberately ramming someone off track should result in an automatic disqualification [Black/Red]. Multiple occurrences of DQ’s should end in bans, multiple bans should end week long bans and finally multiple week long bans within a 3 month period should result in 6 month bans for those who just can’t seem to learn.

Also can you all please just fix the replay system. You’re getting ideas free of charge make the little things work too.

4 Likes

I too have seen some seriously broken FRR stuff.

Just to offer some contrast, I just ran a few timed races and the penalties were much more sensible, and scaled well to the class of car (McLaren F1, PI~740). Mind you, 0.02 mile penalty was announced as ~ 1.5 seconds… At 120 mph 0.05 is 1.5 seconds… and this particular car can do double that bone stock. … considering average race pace at Virginia or Eagle Rock can be 70+ mph for this speed machine. those numbers are an over estimation most of the time… I suspect that may be part of the source of the ultra harsh stuff we’re getting with time based penalties.

Something about FRR works, but most of us bias towards the type of racing that FRR is really bad at managing… and seems to be at its worst once the player is already frustrated by the other racers, and having to compete against the REFEREE too, well, they loose what little cool they had left. … overly aggressive AI drivers or fields that feel overly stacked against you… makes racers want to use that helmet in ways it’s not intended for. (Racers tend to be hot-headed if you haven’t noticed.)

Also, “track cutting” and running wide at Spa are vastly different things… if I run wide, i fully expect NO penalty., my poor driving is a self inflicted penalty enough… this 2.25 for blowing a corner garbage is just foolishness. I saw this at most every corner at Spa, especially an already difficult turn 10 hairpin, with turn 5, 18, 19, and 20 being penalty happy too. By contrast, Laguna Seca’s Corkscrew is overly relaxed in my opinion (Laguna Seca is a personal favorite, so color me bias)

I very much enjoy the game as a whole, but I am from the casual racer end of things… standard controller, competitive with level 5 AI, and middle-of-nowhere internet. Those highly-skilled competitive folks with full Fanatec rigs and Fiber internet certainty have more right to fuss than I do.

1 Like

Turn 10 needs to address this issue…

I’m constantly on S tier, but I ONE race, got rammed, spun around, and got 4 seconds penalty… result? got demoted to tier A without doing anything to deserve it.

if this continues like this ill be back on ACC in no time.

You need to implement some damage, even if mild, to frontal or mid/front collisions…

get your stuff together and sort it out.

3 Likes

Avoidable contact . . .

1 Like

because the video is removed from reddit I post a summary video shows most issues all together

1 Like

I would like to add to the penalty issue. I’ve been rammed multiple times and I have been one issued the penalty! I would show some replays, but those don’t work either. I really hope they fix the issues with this game because it is pretty lack luster they way it is.

It so broke A guy rams me off the track few times then i end up with a Penalty for go off track when he ramed me fTHEY NEED TO FIX THIS NOW

While I cannot disagree completely, I have seen instances of cars trying to get out of the way accidentally turn into someone passing. Especially when it’s a netcode issue.

Instead, I think it should be based on what they do next. The E-Sports Sportsman guidelines state a player that hits another player should wait up for the player they hit before continuing on… the penalty system should always reflect that.

If you hit someone and you drive on, the penalty should reflect the time it takes for the hit player to return to the racing track… even if the collision is incidental.

And, for the love of pete, quit registering a bump draft as collision and quit marking car hit with Dirty laps (and failed sectors). They implemented the Car XP system, then penalized clean drivers with having to grind more for no fault of their own.

1 Like

I was chasing a civic on maple valley he went wide on last bend going off the track and as he bounced off the barrier he flew in front of me and I just about caught him and I got a 4 second penalty and lost my s tier straight away

2 Likes

Just want to add, that the penalty system isn’t calibrated correctly for certain tracks. Spa, for instance, is so much more strict than any other track to my knowledge. Missing a corner is a certain time penalty, even when letting off the fuel and intentionally wasting time.

I always try to let the person I’m racing against go passed if I go out of track limits. I’m receiving time penalties for even that! What’s the point? Missed the corner at Bruxells, waited off track for the player behind to pass so that I could re-enter safely. 0.90 s of penalty. Why!?

Its a waste of time, I should just keep trucking and say screw sportsmanship if I’m going to get the penalty regardless of my actions after the mistake.

This game is a joke, It’s impossible to get a decent game. Started 2nd by the 5th corner I was 11th of 13. Just rammed off, no penalties given. I’m sure half the players should by banned by now. I have an ‘A’ rating, probably should be ‘S’ but often you get heavy penalties for being rammed off the road and into other cars. A skill level of 4143 I’m not claiming to be the best driver on the planet, but surely it should be possible with these scores to get a game where people actually want to race and not just use you as a break. Guess I’ll try again in a few months to see if the dev’s can be bothered to fix the game.

tired of being hit and on top of that the one who gets penalized is me

Honestly, out of every 50 penalties that are given out, I like only 4 are justified and appropriate.

Thats why i dont like to play online,tired of deliberately being rammed, wrecked, or cars materializing out of no where in front of me, i try and race as clean as possible, i mess up not perfect. But its crazy. The stuttering cars on the track, mugello rammed 3 xs on front stetch, ran off track in first turn, spun off in last corner. At Catalunya they waited for me, but they wouldnt stop ramming me l, so i left . I prefer to free play go play forza 6

That sounds like a latency issue. The game works by sharing the info between systems. When one or more of the systems is slower (Slow connection, CPU, Graphics CPU and/or RAM) the game attempts to “predict” the other players actions… problem is, they are controlled by humans and not always predictable.

That is why you get stuttering, jumping or similar. It could be a time of day issue, internet service provider or below optimal system specs. Unless you are playing on Xbox Series X. If using Xbox Series S, you could be running too many apps. Xbox One… I wouldn’t bother. Even on lowest settings it’s problematic.