That is a very legitimate suggestion, and many people do do this. But this then begs the question, why bother getting a 900 degree wheel at all if you can’t use it?
Forzas ffb is very outdated and makes you feel disconnected from the car, (like dui said, if your racing you generally try not to break traction so you probably won’t notice as much. But what about when you try to attack a corner with maximum slip angle were neutral steering is used? I’ll let you guys judge that one) it reminds you that you are playing a game because it is not natural or intuitive at all. Previous poster summed this up (un-intentionally) he spent hours learning how to “interpret” what the ffb was trying tell him. If you have to spend that long to interpret it, then it is clearly speaking the wrong language.
The ability to confidently “Attack a corner” is missing from my racing right now… Simply because I am not confident enough with my ability to keep it in balance (largely due to FFB in the slide) !
If you weren’t directly, you may halve well referred to me regarding long learning curves for 'Interpreting" the FFB sensations… And… like I said just a little while ago in another post… I am worried, that I am learning bad habits just to cope!
Ok, so in my opinion the ‘normal’ setting feels the most intuitive. Actually the reason I bought an XBox 360 with Forza 4 (back in the days) was because of this reason. Of all ‘sims’ I’ve played, Forza felt the closest to the real thing. I’m not saying it’s the perfect simulator, I’m just saying that when I can do something with a car in real life…I should be able to do so in a ‘sim’. Otherwise you will end up with ‘learning bad habits’…or adapting to a game’s interpretation of reality. I think Forza’s tire-model had a lot to do with the ‘realism’ I felt, and especially regarding ‘drifting’ and tire re-grip.
Now back to the Force Feedback. Although I rather not compare games, I also have Project Cars and really was wondering why people say that they think their FFB is the best/better (I had some online sessions last night with some friends and have tried various settings of others). It seems (correct me if I’m wrong) that FFB is a too general statement, because what I gathered is that they are actually saying is ‘I like the way we feel every bump on the road, therefor we feel connected to the road’.
I do partially agree to that, but for me that’s only a (small) part of what FFB should be about. What to me is lacking in Project Cars is the feeling of the grip of the tires and the momentum of the car. This is where Forza shines (in my opinion). In Forza the FFB will ‘tell’ me a lot more about where I am in regards to the grip-level of the tires and the momentum the car is carrying. I’m not saying it’s perfect, but it is giving me feedback on the feelings I have in a real car. In a real car your whole body acts as a ‘sensor’ to everything going on in your car. Since in the simulator world we only have a steering wheel to go by, there is a compromise of the things we actually feel at the wheel in real life as well as the part the ‘body’ senses.
To make the FFB even better in Forza would be to include the ‘road-feel’/bumps on the road and fix the lack of auto-turning of the steering wheel when the rear steps out (since the front wheels keep following the direction of the car, this angle-difference would in real life be compensated automatically by the steering wheel).
To make Forza as a whole better, in my opinion, is to fix the default brake-balance (it’s now on 50/50 and should be more in the region of 60/40, and results in the rear locking up/stepping out) as well as fix the (loss of) tire-grip when letting go of the gas-pedal *this really feels odd to me…
I think the loss of grip on lifting the throttle is simply owing to lift-off oversteer when the weight of the car moves towards the front wheels as the car decelerates and removes weight from the driven wheels - as it would for real. I do agree though that it is almost impossible to predict when it is about to happen. I always try to keep a little power on, but no too mcuh, to avoid this.
Yep… Mostly running ‘Normal’ when trying to race competitively (like in League)…
I have done both though… I think the ‘Normal’ setting does more to help prevent the ‘step out’ by limiting the more slight twitch inputs to the steering wheel though. I haven’t decided which I like best for recovery…
I’m anxious to see If I can improve my recovery with different TX Wheel Sensitivity settings… I know those settings apply some level of scaling to the input vs. steering wheel rotation angle — with the largest affects of that scaling at or around wheel center…
It might be that the “Syrupy” feeling is caused to some degree by that scaling…
Anybody elses clutch dead zone not stay set? I run 0-30 on my clutch dead zone so I can shift as fast as possible without grind but it only keeps these settings for 1 race. I confirmed this using the telemetry because when I first change the dead zone its correct with 30 percent pedal travel and 100 percent clutch. Then once I change car or track or even just restart it will go back to 100 percent clutch to get 100 percent clutch in the telemetry. VERY annoying because I go from shifting fast and smooth with no grind to very slow shifts just so it doesnt grind. FIX THIS PLZ!
I played quite a while today and it felt good, which surprised me. It seems that some cars feel really good, and some are terrible. Strange though that the modern supercars and race cars are the terrible ones, I’ve noticed thus far.
I used these settings today if anyone’s interested:
Dead-zones: steering 0 & 100, acc/dec 15 & 100 (putting the default inside dead-zones back on the pedals helped a lot; I was using 0 previously)
Vibration 38, FFB 75
Degrees of rotation: 540
TX: sensitivity: 2
I could feel the rear of the car, steer with the throttle, and I was having fun. I will probably hate it again tomorrow when I try some new cars.
Thank you Christian! Very informative. Right now I have a non-ffb wheel (Thrustmaster 458 Spyder) but I’m thinking of possibly returning it in favor of the italia (FFB)…Update: I ordered the Italia and the Spyder is going back to amazon!!!
Just to quickly update my own TX theory …no, I dont think it matters what DOR the menu states if you change it on the wheel directly. I tried with extreme settings and didnt feel a difference, seems the wheel does an overwrite and its just the controller settings that wont update properly.
That aside I think I`ll give up on FM6 with wheel until Turn10 decides to do it right. Some cars feel ok-ish, but many are more or less undriveable.
Better for me to have fun using the controller and refer to Assetto when the mood for wheel racing strikes.
I had to laugh, me with a controller is NOT fun as I really suck at them. And if you think that’s bad you should see me in COD ( I’m terrible ) I however still really like COD and the racing, let’s just say that’s why I have a wheel. I respect those who do good with a controller just isn’t in my talent range.
I take it you have pretty much always been using a wheel then?
I for one only got my first wheel (CSR) for FM4, everything before that was controller, since PS1 days, fair to say I am used to it.
So these days I just pick what feels right for each game. I had fun dirt-drifting on The Crew (PC) with the X1pad, just as I enjoy hotlapping with the TX on Assetto.
Forza with Assetto quality FFB would be a dream come true, but it seems this has to wait a bit longer. Like I said, no big deal for me as I (almost) equally enjoy racing with a gamepad.
Yes you are correct I have always used a wheel all the way back to the old Microsoft white and grey wheel for Forza 2 I believe. I can make a controller work but I’m just not that good at it. I tend to go lock to center several times quickly making a turn rather than finding that sweet spot on the controller. I have also tried to get better at it but my body’s reflexes are very stubborn and it’s worse than the lock to center thing I do now. A wheel just works so much better for me. My favorite game is Forza and if I could not use a wheel I would not buy Forza. That’s how strong I feel about the wheel. It does however perhaps make me overlook some issues because Some of them I create by my driving style ( unpredictable ). LOL
Getting a little impatient waiting for Christians replies to some of the more popular topics. I know he said he was working on part 2 Tuesday. Would be nice to get intermittent replies. Really looking forward to his opinion on how FFB stacks up.
I have the Fanatec V2 base firmware 222( v110), club sport v1 pedals with a G27 shifter and the club sport handbrake.
When I first set the wheel up I found it almost unplayable across all games on the Xbox One, it seemed to bring on the ffb abruptly from the centre point making any car a hand full. Then I set the wheel ffb to auto and changed the in game ffb settings instead which solved the problem. F1 2015 felt superb with serious ffb and with its separate wheel weight setting that really helps, I had to turn that and the ffb down, it was that strong.
The ffb on the Forza 6 demo felt lacking though, almost as if it was turned right down I previously had a Fanatec gt2 on my 360 and it felt great on Forza 4 and I put many miles it.
Playing the full release it still felt lacking but I persevered until at the start of one race, the controls all seemed to get mixed up, default view was sideways out of the car, very weird! So I turned the Xbox off at the console, then restarted it from the wheel guide button.
Game picked up back in the start race menu after selecting my profile and the race started fine. Suddenly, full on ffb!!! It was seriously testing my arms again, I played on for approx. 6 hours and eventually had to take a rest as my shoulders were starting to ache.
Tldr: The start up sequence of the wheel base and console can have a major effect on the force feedback, at least for the Fanatec. This might explain a lot of the negative ffb early on from the demo onwards. It might be worth some similar testing from some of the other brand wheels.
On a side note, is there any chance if getting the handbrake to work on the Xbox one, Fanatec says it’s down to you Turn 10 and I can’t see why it wouldn’t take 5mins to turn it on!
I’ve been having a slight issue while using my Fanatec V2 wheel. For any extended period of driving the game thinks that I’m “inactive” and suddenly dims my screen. It’s like it doesn’t recognize wheel and pedal inputs and just thinks I’m sitting there doing nothing. I can just hit any other button and it will go back to normal, but it gets quite annoying always fumbling to find a button to get me out of inactive mode, by which time I have already gone off track and crashed.
Does anybody know how I can disable this option? I realize it’s more of an Xbox setting than a problem with the game, but it’s really starting to bug me.
