Steering Wheels and You - A Hopefully Helpful Guide

Forza Motorsport Legacy Motorsport FM6 Discussion
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Christian,
It is great to see you putting in this effort and for creating this as a sticky topic… Since it IS such a sticky one for many of us. I love what you have written so far, and look forward to the next part… keep them coming. The more we understand, the better off we will all be!

That said, I want to say I have been living, breathing, eating, sleeping FORZA 6 while “wheel driving” (TM TX/T3PA/TH8A) since the Demo released… My wife insists I need help, and she is probably correct! 

Having said that, I have been pouring over all the threads regarding wheel driving — as I’m sure you have too! Hopefully, like me, you too are spending a lot of time playing (And testing) as well…

I sit on the fence with the wheel, but absolutely love the Forza franchise, and will never abandon my wheel or Forza… I love it too much, and so far, I only play Forza with it.

When it is right, which it is often enough (particularly in lower classes or in career modes), it is an amazing experience.

I say I sit on the fence, because I do not want to see Forza do anything drastic with the wheels but I too like other recognize that something isn’t quite right. Mostly just too tight between stick or slide, which is exacerbated so easily by so many small things… I certainly don’t think dumbing down the wheels or physics of the game is the answer.

I realize from my own skill progression so far, that the wheel simply is very close to simulation and complaints about many issues can be more related to driving style or car setup (or wheel setup)… All of which I am personally slowly getting better at…

I know many of the complaints I read I can definitely attribute to poor setup (rear diff, brake balance/pressure, tire compound/width, etc.) or dare I say… less than perfect driving technique which I’m guilty of occasionally as well.

However, those things, I am willing to and WANT to have to wade through… otherwise, we would lose the truest form of simulation that FORZA 6 can offer with a wheel setup…

Experienced drivers know these things approach realism, and deal with them happily.

Still while playing online in Multiplayer, and Ford GT league (where all cars are mostly equal)… It is painfully obvious that the wheel will not compete (barring total perfection) with the controller drivers. They are obvious, by the ‘tick-tick-tack-tack’ steering (some worse than others), and they are all over the place (Not network lag — just bad driving). They clearly have a much looser limit for loss of grip. If similar input were created from a wheel at the same speed, an uncontrolled slide would occur instantly. Even on initial acceleration, they seem to grip up and go much more quickly… I’ve even tried to return to using all assists (where allowable by restrictions)… Still I see them jerking their cars around while cornering, and they still stick and go… Online they slam into each other and stay (mostly) stuck to the payment! Any wheel Driver will tell you he’d likely loose in that contact! It just seems to be that we (wheel drivers) are kept on a much thinner knife’s edge!

I know Turn 10 doesn’t want to turn a great game for hundreds of thousands of people using controllers, into an impossible game though… so setting the same, high quality simulation-like bar of ‘stick versus breakaway’ for tire grip on controllers is an unrealistic expectation of its own.

Still, Like Alan from the Team VVV describes very well where he drives the “Brabham BT24” and demonstrates (and says so eloquently) in his YouTube video at Brands Hatch, it seems that the line between “Push” and/or “Wildly loose” is way too narrow for the physics engine given the wheel controller input to the game. I know “Push" can be from too much steering input or too much acceleration off the apex at a given speed, or… can occur under braking… or just too much turn in… etc, etc… AND… Many of these things can also cause the back end to get “Loose” and come around as well… particularly on tracks like Brands Hatch where off camber turns and rapid elevation changes at or near the point where power is typically being applied… And, if you are already on such thin ice… and then hit a small bump… it’s over.

I do also love that I can feel every little crack, payment patch, and bump in many of the tracks… and those are clearly figured into the physics of tire adhesion — as should be — but again, my observation is that they have a way more profound effect on me when using the wheel vs the controller thereby making “The line” even thinner for wheel drivers.

While I was in the “Ford GT” league, I couldn’t help observing the Game Options section for the league. I noticed that there was a couple of setting for “handicapping grip”…

Could it be, that Wheel controllers are treated as advantageous??? And therefore handicapped for grip at some level always??? Or that handheld controllers are just given more leeway???

I wouldn’t expect that you or Turn 10 could/should actually give an exact answer to those questions, but IF that “IS” a part of the controls/physics for wheels — which it certainly seems to be to me… — Then maybe an adjustment is in order to “widen” (even just slightly) the line between push or spin…

Again, I can’t say enough how much I love Forza, and also how much I enjoyed your first installment of helpful advice!

Thanks!

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102

I am really looking forward to Part II. :thinking:

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I’ve not found it helpful, to me the game with a wheel is unplayable, I just can’t few what the car is going to do next. W

What are your plans to fix the wheel issues? Or will it be left as your main market is gamers on pads??

As others have said the ffb in Pcars is above and beyond what fm6 has to offer. Great graphics and eye candy are all good and well but I want the feeling in the wheel to take priority before eye candy.

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104

Forza would gain so much if wheel dynamics and physics would improve. Compared to other sims (rFactor, AC, PC, LFS) Forza looks great, but lacks in accurate force reproduction.

It’s hard to say with few words what exactly is wrong with the FFB wheel. Only when you drive other sims with same wheel, you can feel the problem. One thing that striked me most when testing and comparing FFB to rFactor is that in rFactor there is very distinctive force that typically pulls wheel towards the center. Just like real car, it naturally wants to straighten. Also vibrations from the road (depending on the motor’s RPMs and bumps on the road) needs to be transfered through the wheel. Unfortunately that is nearly absent in Forza. I think that is why people all over the forum are reporting they feel disconnected from the road or that FFB feels unresponsive and weak.

The reason why people buy expensive wheels is to get good feel of what car is doing on the road, to get literally connected with the car…

PS: You can run rFactor DEMO for free on very low end PC. They really nailed wheel forces!

I look forward to additional clarifications on wheel settings that might help to improve overall FFB feel. I’m especially interested in “sensitivity” settings on TX since i can’t find any in depth explanation what it actually does!

Thanks and see you on the track! :slight_smile:

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Alan from the Team VVV describes very well the problem:


I know that we wheel users are only a minority but the large number of negative opinions about the current driving behavior should not be ignored.

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Thanks for posting the video, this sums up the situation well in a fair and balanced way, exactly what I feel with the wheel. Understanding the racing technique, gently on the power as you unwind the lock through corners not working is a big help. The same cars with the control pad behave themselves so it’s definitely a wheel issue.

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107

just check my settings!!

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Hi everybody, I have a little problem with my Thrustmaster TX 458. I have the latest firmware and the latest drivers. When I played the demo of FM6 some days ago, I set the force feedback to 100 and I had no problems while playing. I also tried to set the force feedback to 60 and the game gave me no problem at all. I also noticed that in the “pre-race” menu there was the window “controller and wheel” where I could modify any setting I wanted and it was very comfortable. Now that I bought the game (Ultimate Edition), in the “pre-race” menu I can’t find this window. Moreover, I set the force feedback to 100 and I notice very clearly that the force feedback is weaker, giving me the impression that it is more or less like the setting 60 in the demo. To confirm this, when I play the career and I receive an invitation to an exibition (for example VS Stig), in that race I feel the real force feedback set to 100; if I exit and I turn back to the career, the force feedback returns weaker although the setting is always to 100.
Is it a well-known bug or just mine?
Thank you very much!

Up

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First, I want to thank Christian for taking his time to discuss force feedback in Forza 6. I look forward to part two of his explanations.

I want to offer some of my findings using a Fanatec ClubSport Wheel Base v2. My testing has been with road going sports coupes and sedans, cars I know well in real life. I obviously no nothing about how dedicated racing machines feel, so I’ll let the experts hash that out. I agree with others who note that force feedback in Forza 6 feels a little off though. I strictly run at 900 degrees in-game, with wheel sensitivity set to Auto.

I first started using in-game force feedback scale at 100, with my wheel set to FFB: Auto. This gives me a very “clean” feeling as the wheel is incredibly smooth with a wide dynamic range of forces. But it doesn’t feel perfectly realistic. It’s clean and quick, but feels a little springy. If I keep a lighter grip on the wheel I can tell what the car is doing and let it correct itself a bit, and this allows me to maintain control. It’s something I can learn to live with, but it’s not naturally intuitive.

Now if I set my wheel to FFB: 100, and adjust the in-game force feedback scale down to the mid to low 20s, the steering feel is very different. Force feedback strength is similar to above, but the feeling of tire weight and steering dampening is much higher. It’s a little more effort to steer, but it also feels more realistic. I find I’m more controlled and less likely to break traction unless I’m using extreme steering inputs. I can muscle it around more like I would a real car. The only thing I don’t care for is the dampening adds a bit of “grit” to the feel of the car. This grittiness only seems to be an issue in Forza 6, and not in the PC sims I play.

The other thing I notice, which I believe has always been an issue in the Forza Motorsport series is that the game uses artificial centering spring effects. Even at a dead stop if you crank the wheel and let go, it will slowly return to center. Contrast that with PC games like Assetto Corsa where the steering wheel reacts specifically to forces placed on the tires’ contact patches. Once you get rolling it’s less of an issue, but I do get the feeling that force feedback in Forza 6 is not directly connected to the physics engine.

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Hello,

So, long time FM player, but only recently got my first wheel, the non-ffb Thrustmaster 458 Spider. Obviously, my comments won’t be directed at ffb issues. I was using my wheel with pCARS on XB1 for a bit this summer, which was having some functional issues post-release - then I went touring for the summer and gaming took a back seat. I started playing on FM6 last Friday via early release pre-order pkg. Anyway, the point is, I’m a bit green with the wheel but know what the game should feel like from a controller perspective, and I do after using it here and there while frustrated with wheel operations.

Thank you, Christian, your post was really informative.

My issue is with actually controlling the cars with some semblance of consistency - both with the pedals and the wheel. It seems a combination of gas and the wheel can get the cars doing some pretty radical swerving and easy loss of control. I’ve read enough here and discussed with Thrustmaster support about where sensitivity needs to be set along with FM setting for dead zones, etc. Things have got better the last couple tries, but small adjustments of the wheel and acceleration/braking are resulting in loss of control and spinning off track. Frustrating to say the least. Of course there are really great things about the game but the learn unfortunately curve has been severe for me so far… Hoping the many comments people have made here get looked at and taken into consideration.

Regards,

Dave

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Hello everybody,
I have a huge problem with my V2 and hope someone can help someone here.

As can be seen already in lezten Video VVV, and hear it’s me andauerend, I can not post in the correct curve, without which I lose my car completely. Tried different angles, no improvement.

Controller in hand, and bang it runs as if on rails.

Am grateful for any help.

greeting Michael

at the base itself

SEN at AUT
FFB 80

leave the rest in peace, now ABS is excluded.

In the game, the angle on 540th
Vibration strength at 38 with 40 or 36 there were again problems
Scaling at 55, and I still popular here, but very driveable. And Simulation Steering Please

Now it rules!!!

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Thanks for the detailed much appreciate insights and information Christian. Great to see this open post on wheel design / support.

I use the TX wheel with latest firmware plugged directly into one of the back usb ports of the xbox one. cockpit, sim steering, all assists off, 540 DOR, standard sensitivity. 5% dead zones both ends for Acc / Brake, no dead zones for steering. Auto Clutch used.

Unfortunately I am experiencing some FFB issues, where the game will behave as expected, but then after a random period of time will change behaviour of FFB entirely. Kurbs all off a sudden pull hard in direction of the wheels that touch them, changing gear causes a tug to the left and things such as over steer have a completely different FFB effect all of a sudden. When this occurs, I unplug the TX usb and plug back in again which then resets to normal FFB effects. The difference is noticeable and impacts driving ability in the game. As you can imagine, its hard to unplug during a race ;O(

Funnily enough, my TX stopped working Sat night. The TX starts the calibration but turns off before finishing, both with PC and Xbox One, not being recognised by the TX control panel on the PC. Thrustmaster are sending me a new USB cable solder on so will report back once fixed if this issue continues for me or not as it could just be a sign the TX was having issues or not.

Cheers
Matt

1 Like
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Ok feel like I’m starting to get some where now so here’s my setting’s:

TX on wheel settings:

DOR: 360 (2 Flashes)
Sensitivity: Medium (2 Flashes)

In Game:

1920×1080 154 KB

Also to assist from locking up I have done the old sponge behind brake pedal and it has drastically assisted in braking ability.

The vibration setting I feel gives the FFB inconsistent signals so dropping that means I can now run kerbs with the only issues being real feeling when you hit big ones or drop a wheel onto the edge.

My feeling is the vibration slider is the issue, 100% gives a way overpowered experience, even at 5% there’s still a huge amount. Having lowered it to 5% though it acts as it should VIBRATION only, so in this sense the FFB is allowed to transmit the correct feel for slide etc.

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I just tried turning the vibration down and, you’re right. I was shocked at how much of what I was feeling came from that.

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Glad you like the change, I know a lot will miss out that post as vibrations what can they change but it made a massive change to the game for me.

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I haven’t figured it out yet. Today I came up with 900 DOR, TX sensitivity “3”, and FFB 93 w/ rumble 38. I did notice that the sensitivity setting got changed a couple of times when I went into the options menu, also. The FFB seems to have more feel in simulation steering than normal, although it has it’s own peculiarities. The in-game wheel only having 180 degrees of movement throws me off, too. It could use some improvements.

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Youz gotz wheel bugs in this game.

Wheel turns left from a standstill and on shifts. Wheel turns left no matter what tires are on the grass. Same applies to curbs.

Not to mention button remapping that has happened both times I used a controller to chat in party while racing on wheel. Seems to be a a problem with many people. Are you working on these issues?

1 Like
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Hello, I purchased the Forza 6 Xbox One Limited Edition bundle. With it, I also bought the Thrustmaster TX Racing wheel, T3PA Pedals and TH8 Shifter.

I am having a lot of problems with Forza 6 detecting the Thrustmaster TX racing wheel. When I power my Xbox One ON, the wheel is connected to it. It works perfectly fine in the Xbox One menu, I can navigate through that menu just fine with the wheel. However when I select Forza 6 & the game launches I get this “Controller disconnected, not currently paired to a gamepad. Please press the Xbox button with the gamepad that you would like to play with and choose your profile from the account picker with the gamepad.” I press the Thrustmaster TX’s Xbox button which just brings me back to Xbox One’s menu, and the wheel worked great there for navigation etc. Then I choose the game again, and get the same above message every single time. No matter what, Forza 6 does not recognize & authenticate my wheel. I had it somehow mysteriously pair successfully once before, but after powering the Xbox off & on again; exactly the same thing happened!

This is VERY frustrating, so much so that I want to return EVERYTHING back to the store!

Can someone please help me fix this properly?

P.S. The Thrustmaster wheel is all up to date on the latest firmware & works perfectly with my PC & Project Cars every single time; just not with Xbox & Forza 6.

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Don’t a hard reset by either holding own the Xbox button on the console, or unplug it, wait for the power bricks light to turn orange then restart the console.

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Have you got a controller connected as well? If so remove that until game is booted up fully with wheel then you can reconnect it.