Another thing that might be causing inconsistency is if you run ABS. The game can be weird about when it kicks in, and how much braking you actually get.
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Agreed, the ABS is awful and extremely unpredictable. Stopped running it about a month after release. It was a major factor in struggling to find a groove using a wheel and pedals.
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I’ve experimented with bias a lot on the tuned cars, and it immediately makes a difference. But then again, you shouldn’t have to add parts just to get a regular/stock car to exhibit realistic braking behaviour. It is what it is.
I just hope they never nerf the physics to make it “easier” for casual players.
I actually noticed this from day one. While the base physics model is actually really great, the race cars, GT cars, prototypes, track-only cars, open wheelers, etc. slide around unnaturally. With the kind of chassis, tyres, and aero they have, they should not be sliding around like this once the tyres are fully warmed up. Either that or the default car setup is just really wrong.
Anyway, I want to see them update and improve the physics individually according to the type of car you’re driving rather than apply a base physics model with modified values across all cars.
Also, why is there hidden understeer integrated into the game? It’s so easy to oversteer a car IRL and spin out, especially if it’s a really grippy one. I wish T10 would do away with the hidden aids and really go all out on the physics side to make the driving as deep, engaging, and nuanced as possible.
Assetto Corsa and PCARS2 have dedicated physics model/values for each car - if T10 can’t do that, then have at least dedicated values for different types, class, or category of vehicle.
Kyalami too
If you want to break the physics engine (or at least expose the obvious flaws)
- Build a ford fiesta with all the racing mods.
- Set it up to oversteer using normal means (sway bars, springs, damping)
- Take a few slow laps to familiarize yourself with the limits of the rear of the car.
- Swap in either the 3.0 V8 or 3.7 V6 modded to 500ish HP (FWD- it’s important)
- Slowly accelerate to match speed and corners from step 3
- Be amazed when the rear of the car cannot be made to slide for any reason.
Here’s an easier way to break the physics.
Pick any car.
Pick any track.
Drive to the first angled curb you can find.
Stop the car on the curb.
Hold the brake.
Enjoy.
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I wonder which of the “8 points of contact with the track surface running at 360 cycles per second” is responsible for the car spontaneously sliding off the curbs sideways at a dead stop?
I guess the good news is that in another two weeks or so, this game will largely be irrelevant.
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I never read your post. I made one days ago on the exact same topic and believe it or not people keep defending this game. It’s really frustrating… Thanks to your post I’m at least reassured that I’m not the only one who thinks the same way
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The 4 tire points that were built from the ground up, aparently. Like the track limits, corners were cut.
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Yeah, something is off. It seems like the front and rear tires have a life of their own. I never truly feel like the front tires are biting down or scraping along if you give too much steering input. Or, power oversteer, e.g., in a really powerful car, feels wrong.
These fast cars IRL, especially the downforce monsters, oversteer very easily if you don’t modulate your braking and throttle properly. Even downshifting or upshifting at the wrong time during a turn can throw you off.
None of that is modelled in FM, just an understeery, half on-rails model. All marketing hype and falsehood - “so many” points of contact.
Right, it’s the same physics model from FM7 with a few minor tweaks.
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You people just give up straight without testing?
Yes, also mycars when going on curbs they get upset, loosing control. Just need to udjust what upsets it. But also some Curbs are ment to be left alone.
Maybe You all just download setting and never learned how to fix your issues.
There are a lot of setups that are just MAX here MIN there, mostly done by controller users, so if the Physics is working well, those setups will become garbage.
Or just keep hating on the Game, it’s fine…
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I’ve decided to take my numbtastic steering wheel settings, and inject some life into it. Right now its still in work. My thinking, if I can get the wheel to not be part of the problem, then I can finally feel and understand the changes I make in the tuning menu.
My first port of call was to be able to tell where the tires are pointed by feel. To do this, I picked an activity that I can’t seem to get my head around, and that is drifting. I kept adjusting dynamic damper, steering alignment, load sensativity, road feel and, center spring. Once I had an understanding of what the tire limit feels like while drifting, I ajusted the dynamic damper to eliminate the rapid shaking on center. Its not perfect, and I am still wary of taking my hands off the wheel, but I feel that if I give it more time I can get the swing of drifting in FM23 with sim steering on. Awesome!
Next was to really understand what the wheel is trying to tell me about the grip limit. For this I took the Acura DPi to Nurburgring Nordschleife. Here I was looking to ajust load sensitivity, FFB strength, dynamic damper and, road feel. First I wanted the grip limits to be loud and clear. I boosted FFB so the tire limits felt like hitting a wall. After this I was paying attention to how dynamic damper added or muted the grip fall off. Once I got something I liked, I lowered the FFB to where it was still strong but not clipping.
Right now I am in the testing phase. I am running an A-Class NSX in the A-Class open career events. I did turn the car’s FFB up so it felt as strong as the Acura DPi. Here I ran the test at Sebring, and concentrated on road feel, and making final ajustments to dynamic damper.
Once I was happy I made some changes to the car’s alignment tuning. Although the difference was small, the feeling through the wheel gave me way more confidence with the NSX.
Before changing my FFB, the car was good. After changing FFB, its an extension of my will… Its pretty nice.
Laps I leave them for last, I normally use a FWD car and turn the wheel and see if it aligns only when I roll forward. FWD have a more heavier front and steering FFB is more noticeable. You can toe in 0.5 and increase Caster to make it even more noticeable.
Just from stand still, turn the wheel and see how it aligns, and it must realign only when the car is moving.
Another test, while at speed, 40 60kmh turn the wheel and use the handbrake to lose the rear and see if the wheel counter steers. Should do it without touching it and the car should point straight forward.
Also try the Understeer, just in corner, turn the wheel while accelerating, you feel the forces reduce power.
All this with the telemetry on screen showing if you are in range.
After increase dampening, because for DD real cars don’t have such light mechanism and to see that there is no useless wobble on the straight.
Use always a FWD car to set up the FFB. If you feel Rear Engine or RWD cars having a light front end, well they are like that also in reality.
I’ll give it a shot when I have time. I have a few FWD cars that I like driving.
Edit:
I finally got a FWD and took it to the track. After the first turn I decided, that besides small tweaks here and there, I ultimately do not need to change anything significant about my Advanced Wheel options. I believe, I am getting exactly what I was looking for in the game’s FFB. And that is more communication.
I can feel what I need in order to effectively drive the car in FM23. I no longer have to guess what the tires are experiencing, or if I am going through a turn too fast. I can feel the rear stepping out before I see it happen on screen, and I can feel if I have enough traction when powering out of a turn. No more of guessing if I have grip… I can feel if I have grip.
I know what I am doing is not accurately simulating what the real car feels. But to that, I am also never going to feel how the car in game handles G-forces so, why should I try to replicate what the steering feels like? Especially in a game like Forza Motorsport, where it is accepted that this is a “Simcade”? It makes no sense not to take advantage of what the game is trying to tell me through the FFB.
I am now ready to tune the cars for the best effect while driving.
Edit 2:
I get what you were trying to say, but there are also disadvantages to using just a FWD car to tune FFB. Torque steer is one of those issues. Also when accelerating the wheel would want to oscillate left and right. Dialing that out would make the car numb because that would either be turning the Load Sensativity down, or over-boosting the Dynamic Damper.
My car (Elantra N) was pretty dialed in before driving it. So I am where I feel I need to be.
Actually, it’s good that this topic is still being brought up on the forum, maybe the developers will notice it and pay attention, and maybe even make some kind of comment (at least I’d like to believe so)
It’s good to find like-minded people here
What exactly do you find wrong with the handling or physics?
Are you going into turns too fast with full analogue stick lock? Are you taking the appropriate racing line and downshifting at the right time while cornering? What about tweaking your tune?
The game has a cap on steering, so there’s a bit of understeer baked into the physics model, that’s about it. Other than that, it is among the better handling driving games on Xbox.
Also, can I ask which physics model are you using for reference in your critique of Forza’s model?
Additionally, grip is much more dynamic and progressive IRL - Forza makes it really easy. Still, the physics model is an improvement over FM7, albeit not a major one.
That is why you must do the test at low speed. FWD is the ones with more front-end weight.
Of course, if you accelerate to much you will have torque steer, but in Neutral condition FWD are the one to use to get the proper steering feeling. And you should not dial the FFB setting to adjust to the Torque steer, but you should use DIFF settings and Throttle control.
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On my side:
Understeer is not baked in the physics, but in the car suspension settings.
I want that the wheel FFB is near to reality, Infact for my first DD I had to increase Dampening, because DDs are to light, even lighter than a car with the wheels off the ground. Where with my old belt driven Wheel the Dampning was always set to “0”.
The Only Physics error I found in Forza is the Torque steer when you have half car on asphalt and grass, looks like grass delivers more torque.
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I’ll save what I have (pen and paper style) because I do like where I landed, and I will fully give your approach a try.
Now this is only FFB tuning, not vehicle tuning. I am still trying to get the hang of tuning in this game.
The procedure you do is…
- Set your aligning torque with a FWD car at low speeds.
- Use the hand brake to evaluate and set counter steering. Do this without touching the wheel. And the car should point straight forward at the end of the test.
- Test Understeer by accelerating in a corner and feel if the FFB loses strength. Use telemetry to see this happen.
- Increase dampening to eliminate wobble and undulations on straights.
If this is what I need to do, then I’ll get to it later today.
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