lol no. He’s talking about converting RWD to AWD. You get both a weight and PI hit which in nett terms usually leaves you slower than native AWDs.
“Why would performing a RWD conversion from AWD increase the weight?”
Ah lol. I was referring to the OP. I didn’t see the switch. The latter makes even more sense as far as why it would increase weight.
It was the simplest way to balance the PI in FM5 and avoid the rally fest that FM3 was. FM3 RWD TO AWD dominated, FM4 FWD TO RWD dominated. They tried a different approach to create more of a balance across the drivetrains. So far, so good.
Why is there a need to create a balance across the different drivetrain types. In the real world, they are not necessarily balanced and each excels at something different. There is a reason most race cars are not front wheel drive, and those that are race in the lowest levels. Even though ti is just a game, people shouldn’t expect front wheel drive cars to be competitive in the upper levels of racing where you expect to find mostly RWD and AWD cars. The drivetrains aren’t “balanced” perfectly in real life so why go out of your way to try to do this? It doesn’t make sense. I think the strengths and weaknesses will shine through better in Horizon 2 unless they attempt to “balance them”…
As someone said, if you want it RWD and it makes t that much more competitive, make the PI go up by that much more of a percentage. If you change the tires on most cars even to the next level up, the PI jumps incredibly. A regular road car equipped with race tires can go up almost 80 - 100 PI so why not do something similar for RWD conversion?
Balancing the cars to make them all level is like getting a consolation prize for participating just to make you feel special.
I completely agree. If Turn10 wants to make the Forza series realistic, then they shouldn’t make an AWD to RWD conversion add weight, it’s just not realistic at all. If such a conversion is “unfair” in real life, I would expect it to also be “unfair” in this game!
Also, I too completely agree on what you said about FWD being worse and slower. There is one reason and one reason only for manufacturers to make FWD cars: it’s cheaper as all components are packed together in the same area of the car. FWD cars are very nose heavy and put much more strain on the front tyres as they have the job of steering and driving the vehicle. Formula One is the pinnacle of motorsport and tecnology, how come if FWD is so good then all the F1 cars don’t use it? But for a road car, FWD is fine specially now days with fancy front differentials, traction and stability control, etc. My everyday car is a FWD but my weekend-fun street and track car is RWD and I wouldn’t have it any other way. And in my opinion there are better balanced cars than a mid engine RWD: a Mazda RX7 and RX8, with their front mid engine layout and RWD!
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You’re kidding right?
On the InsideSimRacing’s interview of the Turn 10 guys I noticed something interesting: they mentioned that they go to extreme lengths to correctly measure the weight of car parts for Forza (ie the driveshafts) and yet in Forza 5 when you convert a car from all wheel drive to rear wheel drive, somehow this makes the car heavier! How can a car be made heavier by basically removing 2 driveshafts, front differential and a transfer case? Anyone else noticed this? I’m pretty sure in Forza 4 (and even other previous versions of the game) this type of conversion actually realistically makes the car lighter.
I’m not sure this is a mistake from the Turn 10 team, maybe they did this on purpose to stop people making some cars much faster by converting them from AWD to RWD?
Turn 10 if you’re reading this, please fix! And if there has already been another thread on this matter, please let me know, I tried searching for ages but could not find it.
So you honestly think that if you had a Subaru STi, and EVO X, and a Lambo out front in your driveway, you could walk out there and spend an hour and pop off two driveshafts to make them RWD cars? Oh and a transfer case (F-150?). So a RWD conversion would be that 1 hour job, and it would weigh X minus 2 driveshafts?
Incoming funny random example…
97’ Camaro V6 Coupe weighs 3,307 lbs
97’ Camaro V6 Convertible weighs 3,455 lbs (WHAT??? How can this be? You can just take the coupe and cut the roof off and now its a convertible! Right?)
AWD cars for the most part are designed from the ground up to be AWD. Frame, suspension, bracketing, drivetrain support, body support, on and on and on. Next time you are at the auto repair shop, point to an AWD car and ask your mechanic if he can make it RWD real quick for you. Watch… his… face…
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Actually more often than not the convertible version is heavier because the roof is no longer providing structural integrity to the vehicle, so this has to be made up by using additional steel to other parts of the car. Even when additional rigidity is added the heavier convertible version still doesnt have the same rigidity as the roofed version. Then you also have to add the weight of the roof also. Many times the convertible is a luxury version and has additional bells and whistles the gutted coupe version does not.
Yup they have to put steel girders under normal cars to provide rigidity after the roof has been taken off so they weigh more…still have scuttle shake going round corners…and make you look silly. I’m not a fan of convertibles. The Balboni Gallardo conversion saved 30kg according to wiki.
Exactly. My point was only to illustrate there may be more involved then taking a sawzall to the drive shafts up front. j/k. Hey maybe it IS just to balance PI. Who knows. If only we knew somebody who works for an “automaker as a driveline development engineer” so they could enlighten us on how to make a racing game the right way.
I have seen a few dsm guys do this they take out the front axels and put in dummy axel cups so the trans fluid stays in. A couple hour job and not rated to keep from braking constantly but still possible. Also it depends on what rear end they have and transfer case because 4 bolt rears hold lots of power as opposed to the more common 3 bolt which breaks in stock trim.
Well I watched Red Green make an AWD car with nothing but duct tape and bungee cord so I’m not really seeing what the problem would be.
Remember if women don’t find ya handsome they should at least find ya handy.
I doubt anyone is trying to compare it to real life in terms of the time it takes lmao. It just doesn’t make sense that it adds pounds in my opinion.
Well, Lamborghini has been working with AWD for years. They probably got the weight down light enough to whatever Forza’s weight of their generic RWD conversion is actually higher than Lambo’s AWD drivetrain. Most of the Lamob’s are carbon fiber. What do they base the weight on with the generic RWD conversion is the question.
It’s the same as removing stock Crome bumpers adding weight too
I have seen some things also. On a few subarus. The cups do work. And the center diff needs to be dealt with by welding or replacing as well. Stronger main driveine is needed. Then a beefier rear diff because it definitely will blow. And beefier rear axles. And on and on. My buddy changed a part every week for something stronger and he was only running a little over 300 horse to the wheels.
I’m gonna suggest this: perhaps the original AWD drivetrain is made from lightweight materials, and the RWD replacement is made of lead, cast iron, and stone.
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I hate this it really annoys me how they are trying to nurf the conversions its real life knowledge that if you rip out the AWD components you lose weight not gain it .
What next are they going to nurf the actual stock cars specs to make it more competitive out on the track .
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These drive conversions really add nothing to the game anyway, they should just remove them for the sake of balancing the game. Would anyone really convert a Lambo to 2wd or convert a Viper to AWD in real life?