None of these so-called AI have any real human tendencies and you see the same stuff in every race. Every AI since FH2 has had exactly the same issues. The car in the front (doesn’t matter which gamertag) has a huge speed advantage and it just pulls away and every car in your way to the front behaves like a blocker. If you want to win, you must navigate this traffic and watch for the front AI’s massive advantage, especially in Class C and under.
With FM, you are now given the penalties for driving aggressively and going just over the track boundaries or lightly tapping AI cars. Even if you get herded by AI off the track, you get the penalty, not them. The car in the front behaves like Michael Schumacher right up until you pass it and then, it is no more. It gives up the fight and drops off.
What is so “built from the ground up” about this? Nothing has changed on the AI front in nearly a decade.
Sure they do! They ram, they PIT, they hog you off the line from behind. Just like many humans do. Driving blindly for the finish line like they are the only car on the track.
The AI is much faster than before, thats the only thing that changed in the AI.
The faster speed was made with mashinelearning but the rest of the AI is a copy/paste from older titles. The changes made to the copy/paste part made the AI behaving much worse.
But there is no classic rubberbanding in Forza and never was.
Rubberbanding is when the AI is getting slower if in front of you and getting faster if behind you.
But we all know the Forza AI has tendencies to lightspeed away if in front and refusing to overtake if behind.
The machine the AI is learning on is an Xbox
The Xbox is made by Microsoft
The software driving the Xbox is Microsoft
Microsoft makes windows
Windows is stupid
End of argument.
The lead car doesnt lightspeed away, it just does what any car starting in front unimpeded does. The rest of the field certainly doesnt help as they do seem to activley try to block the player until that lead car builds about a 3-4 second lead. After that they seem to race better. But if your not at least a second a lap faster than that lead car you wont be able to catch up in a 3-4 lap race.
This is why this is never “fixed”, the lead car is just driving at its regular pace. What they can do is stop the ai’s tendency to almost come to a complete stop in the apex of turns and smashing the players car causing that famous forza glue to activate and slow you down some more.
They need to stop with the machine learning and hire a learn-ed person to actually create an acceptable ai. The franchise is 19 years old theres no excuse anymore. They have to stop cutting corners on literally everthing they do.
The AI is faster because they can upgrade themselves with race tyres, turbos, etc. players can’t because they may not have access to those upgrades due to the upgrade unlock system in place. Just look at the PI levels of the AI cars in Free Play, and Campaign. Some are 10 levels higher. Where do you think those increases in PI are from? Even if you max out a car, they can still be faster because Forza AI always upgrades itself beyond the player to be “competitive” with better grip, downforce, etc. This was confirmed in the leaked FH3 developer build.
Forza AI has always cheated. Always.
It’s never a fair race because both T 10 and PGG, don’t know the meaning of the word. They create artificial difficulty because they know the AI is decades behind other games and simply “juice it up” instead of program it to driver better.
Also, there is severe rubber banding in FH5 and FM. It’s one of THE biggest complaints in FH5.
All you have to do race one of the longer endurance races like The Goliath, or Colossus, and you can easily spot cars doing exactly what you say doesn’t happen. The rubber banding so bad in FH5, cars that are literally five or six seconds behind you can rocket forward like their using some form of nitrous and then go on to win the race. It’s that bad, and there is a 300+ page thread on the FH5 forum that details how bad the Rubber Banding is in the Forza game, exhibits.
I haven’t noticed rubber banding, at least in the traditional sense. The top few AI always have race tires and Forza aero though, which you can’t use because of the awful upgrade system. While they can advertise that the AI don’t need to rubber band anymore, it’s just a technicality as they’re still awful and still need an unfair advantage.
The rubberbanding isn’t the same as previous versions. I did some tests in the previous versions and created a lobby where AI and I had the same untuned slow car with the same PI. On a straightaway, a car that should have had the same HP passed me like I was standing still from WAY back.
The lead cars aren’t using HP hacks to gain an advantage, nor are slower cars penalized. The AI itself is the difference. I’ve experimented a bit by starting with AI cars at the back and front. Some make more mistakes, so they are slower, but the one or two cars selected to be the fastest AI don’t make any or very few minor ones.
In free play (AI races), I still see they get a PI advantage unless you use advanced settings to cap them at the same car or class PI. Then they don’t seem to pull away except for the advantage of not fighting other traffic.
I didn’t talked about the racesetup of the AI cars. I talk about how the AI is coded.
And the mashinelearningpart was explained by the devs:
The cars drove 26000 Laps on each track to learn the best racingline by themself.
A few years ago in a FM7 video chris already talked about to improve the AI with a better racing line.
That improved racing line make the AI faster without having to do much coding.
But it didn’t worked out very well as we can prove with playing FM.
The rest of the AI behavior didn’t got any mashinelearning and thats why I assume its got copy/paste.
With maybe some changes what made the behavior even worse.
I doubt the AI is completly rewriten as the devs told us.
I don’t do hairspliting over the definition of rubberbanding.
Forza don’t have and never had classic rubberbanding is my opinion at least in front of the player and since the drivertars.
Behind the player is another cup of tea. It doesn’t matter anyway what they do behind the player coz they always slow down when they get overtaken by the player and then basicly refuse to overtake the player.
Forza has always had rubberbanding until this game supposedly. As far as them using parts the players “cant” is untrue. If you want to you can bring a level 50 car in to any series in the campaign. You dont have to start from the bottom if you dont want to and conversely you dont have to use any upgrades if thats what you want, the ai scales to whatever you use.
The thing with the AIs starting with race parts is that most people aren’t going to go into free play and level a car for 3 hours just to run a 1-hour campaign series. It’s also definitely not intended gameplay with how the career is structured.
Also the AI does not properly scale to match your build unless you’re at the PI limit for the series. The top few are always a higher PI, sometimes by 50+ depending on the series and your car choice.
Pi isnt the end all be all when it comes to actual performance on the track. Theres plenty of cars, you may have heard of them meta or leaderboard cars that are much better than their shown pi.
I know everyones on different skill levels so these issues aren’t always issues for everyone. Depending on what you want to accomplish during a race, theres many different ways to guarantee victory.
If you run practice laps, you can see the times all the ai run. Compare them to your own and see what you need to do. Do you need more upgrades? If so run the full practice back out add the parts then skip the practice session. You can also tune your car if you have the available parts, tuning doesnt alter pi and you can gain a lot of time just by making simple tweaks which the ai doesnt do.
You can also choose your starting position. If this one option doesnt get you victory, your picked the wrong car or you need more practice its as simple as that. Once you’re in the lead, unless you crash, you will win the race.
Forza 7 had actual runaway drivatars, they were literally setting laps faster than the top leaderboard times. They made it so the drivatars would be faster than the player at first, but then by the penultimate lap or last lap theyd slow down and youd catch and pass them. Sometimes you couldnt catch them even when they slowed if you crashed or took too long to overtake or the race just wasnt long enough.
Either way, these ai are not doing that. From what ive seen they dont rubberband at all and are definitely beatable every time. Its actually a good opportunity to see what cars are competitive or not. Many people pick cars based on real world preference, this is not the real world, its forza, its a game, once you know how to play the game(meaning game the system) you will be successful.
Ive never seen that happen tbh. I have seen an ai using the same car have less pi than i did while i was using a stock car meaning they either had heavier rims or added ballast or roll cage. So its possible they could have slicks then add ballast and coincidentally have the same pi as you.
Im not a defender of this game by the way, i think its the worst forza game ever made. Theres a million things that are wrong, i wouldnt doubt things like this happen. But in my experience, theres only 3 cars that ever race, the rest are filler.
It doesnt actually matter which individual car is in what place, theyll always post a particular time. Ive tested this exact scenario. Ive also yet to see them run faster than their best practice time for instance, so its the best way to gauge their speed.
Theres certain things that need to change for sure, but theres just some things that probably never will, this is one of those things. The lead car is always going to get a lead, good ai or bad. The faster you get to them the smaller that lead is and the greater your chance of passing them. You also shouldnt expect to win every race if you’re not really in a car that can, thats the whole point of the “builders” cup, you modify your car and “dominate” them.
LOL