Rant on Public Lobbies

So, RANT TIME :slight_smile:

I recently join a public lobby. Everyone was being a idiot of course but not messing with me. Expect one guy. Not gonna say names but I will say he was driving a ricer Honda S2000. I was driving like I should and this dumb*** randomly bumps me like he has no brakes. When I messaged him at the end because he did almost spin me out he said “It’s not my fault your slow”. Granted I was driving a tesla with 4.6 handling and only the upgraded motors but best believe I know how to control it. Afterward this person then calls me butthurt and that he can beat me in drifting, which I don’t beleive. Once I told I could report him for poor sportsmanship and consideration he said he doesn’t “Give two ****'s”. Welp at that point I just submitted the recordings to microsoft with a report. It’s people like this that ruin the ENTIRE experience of xbox. It is seriously un-believable that people like this are allowed into public lobbies.

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There is 3 sides to every story. It’s could be you were making very hard to be passed safely. Who knows these type argument happen in every races.

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yeah I make it difficult to pass me because who doesn’t? Its him that should know to use the brakes though.

Ignore player
Find a new lobby
Live a happier life

That’s what I do if a lobby is trash.

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Two words that describe whats wrong with the forza community

AR12 Fans

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Hahaha… yeah, that dude’s such a dweeb. Why does he have to whine so much in a high-pitched voice every time? “Haaii guuuys, Tomcat heeeere”… facepalm

Probably has something to do with it. Unless your braking technique (ability to hit 70% constantly and consistently) and line selection are spot on and you can actually push that car to its limit, odds are you’re gonna massively hold up and unsettle the field, which ends up being a danger to everybody. If you’re not on the level where you can destroy an average lobby in cars that work you really have no business taking cars like that in hoppers to be honest.

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Yup. I hate making contact, but have ran over a lot of people because there unpredictable. With a build like this people have no idea when your going to brake. So they have to use there best geuss. Also people tend to brake in weird places or will cut others off making a pass then instantly slam on there brakes.

Yep you both are right. Of course this assumes that the player running into the OP was by a pretty good driver. Given they were in a S2000, that’s debatable.

I somewhat agree. I’m not able to destroy lobbies on any level, but I consistently pull up oddball cars, and end up if not on podium pretty close to it. Assuming I dont get wrecked in the process… and if that’s the case I’m very glad that he drives a cars like that.

But what ever the casethe hoppers are terrible at the moment. and largest issue I see is lack of user created public lobbys… and voice chat in the lobby being such a mess that it is… and the “ghost cars” (not being able to see someone)

Personally, I would love it if an extra rule could be applied to the lobbies to discourage leaderboard cars all the time. For example, select b class and each track randomly selects a division. Say everyone votes for Watkins Glenn. Next, they vote for muscle cars or historic sports cars. Now, you don’t always see the same type of cars in every race and the oddball cars have a time to shine.

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That is what I’ve been doing, alot of braking. I don’t hit the people, they just hit me. Like I’m a huge brake because of my cars weight. I have enough experience to drive a tesla like hoppers like that, its everyone else being idiots.

Most minor incidents like that can be cleared up with a quick message after the race.

Unfortunately most people are too prideful for that.

Some of the guys using the clutch tend to slow down the field with needless shenanigans while turning or ‘trying’ to execute a turn.

What you ran into is the typical leaderboard car mentality. Basically, people who drive leaderboard or dummy cars (cars that even your grandma could set a top 1% lap in on any track) do not slow down, ever. They follow their braking line and they do not deviate from it. If you’re in the way when they come around, tough cookies, pal. They don’t understand the concept of a clean pass. This mentality flourishes in the community and it’s honestly ruining the online experience.

That actually brings me to a little rant of my own. People in hoppers literally have no clue how to race. They don’t know how to yield, they don’t know how to brake, they don’t understand a racing line, and they don’t understand how to compensate for cars with different strengths.

Take your Tesla for instance. Yeah, sure, that has some serious strengths with its out of corner acceleration, but I without even seeing it can tell that it suffers in braking and corner entry. Any idiot with an IQ higher than 7 could tell that. Now, if I’m coming up on a Tesla, am I going to sit right behind it? No, that’s moronic. I would dive to one side or the other in an attempt to outbrake you, which again, anybody in a car that weighs less than two tons could perform such a task. The problem is that most people don’t seem to be able to wrap their head around the concept. It’s always “I hit you, so it’s your fault.”

Another example I see constantly (which this actually ended up getting me banned because of how childish the other person was) is the cases where you outbrake someone, get your nose under them, and they still decide to come down on you and attempt to take the inside line. They clip your front fender, and they spin. Whose fault is that? Yours, apparently. Corners have several different lines, usually an inside and outside, and sometimes a middle depending on how wide the track is. In most cases when you’re racing solo, it’s outside on the approach, then you drift inside, apex, and accelerate outside. The problem is that. These people have their braking line on, and as I said, never deviate from them, regardless of if there’s a car in the way. I don’t even know where you’re supposed to pass these people.

Then you have the aftermath. Oh boy, this part’s fun because you’ve done everything you can to be clean, but now you’re the center of attention. If they’ve brought a race team, you better bet they’re all gonna go aggro against you, regardless of the fact that you haven’t done anything wrong. Their teammate is a golden boy angel who is perfect in every single way. If you’ve done that, more than likely you can kiss clean racing goodbye for the rest of the time you’re in the lobby, and a new trend I’ve seen is race teams mass reporting people to get their reputation ruined, therefore disabling their ability to matchmake in ANY game, basically banning them from Xbox Live. Yeah, players en masse now control who gets banned. Past that, you have a choice. You can either keep your cool and let them wreck you for 92 races in a row, or you can leave the race and block them so you won’t match up with them. Sounds simple right? No, and here’s why.

Blocking people on Xbox Live as we know makes it to where they can’t message you, can’t send invites, can’t matchmake to you, and you the same. There’s a huge problem with that, because of how toxic the Forza community is. You block, block, block, and block some more, and then all of the sudden when you go to find a game, nothing. I’d say that in any class you have roughly 3 or 4 active lobbies going at any one time, and once you block enough people, those people will be in at least one of those lobbies a piece. Now you can’t play. They drove badly and wrecked you, more than likely over something that was their fault to begin with, so you’re the one who gets punished essentially.

“Save the replay and email Turn 10 about it.” If I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard this, I’d be a very rich man. There are problems with this as well, seeing as you only get 10 slots to save replays. Most of us want to save spots for real races that were actually interesting, not just someone named xX SwagBOIIIZ Xx wrecking us in an Alfa 33. Even if you do get someone banned, which I’m pretty sure I have in the past, they just make another Gamertag and keep racing, doing the same garbage as before. You can ban accounts, but you can’t ban the entitlement mentality.

So yeah, I’m banned. Again. I know a lot of you are furiously typing away “AHAHAHAHAHAH U DESERVD IT REPORT AN BLOCC” but if you’ll just give me a moment, I’ll explain how getting banned works. Basically, you have step one, the initial conflict. In most cases, people just brush it off, because honesty not everybody is completely insane, but then you do have the types of racers who get angry at the least little bump, even if they cause it. Then they start hitting you at every corner, smashing you off at every single chance. They aren’t going to pass you cleanly ever. You could leave and block them, but that’s the last lobby you’re able to matchmake into. You either turn off Forza, go back in and face it, finishing near the end of the field every race, or you stand your ground. I chose to stand my ground in my case, because blocking people only ends up ruining your experience. Well you fight back, so next race, they wreck you again. You stand your ground. Next race, you get the opportunity to take them out first, so you do, and your race goes perfectly, no problems at all. Next race you know they’re fuming mad, possibly foaming at the mouth drooling on their controller and shaking in sheer rage, so you take them out in turn one to keep from having your race ruined again, but guess what? They anticipated this, and they save the replay and email Turn 10. Now who looks like the bad guy? You do.

Turn 10 has a report system that allows for serious one sided arguments. One can be the aggressor time and time again, then just take one race, act nice and don’t start anything, framing the other driver and getting them banned. There is no appeal process. There is no way to actually talk to anyone. There is no way to go back and prove you weren’t doing anything wrong. Holier than thou types on the forums will treat you like dirt because all banned people are lesser beings to them, and you won’t get anywhere, and they always tell you to send an email to Turn 10. What does that return? Automated replies, every time.

So then you have an ultimatum. When you get unbanned, what do you do? If you’re like me, you’re on strike 2, and next time I’m banned for good. I have until the end of the year for Forza 7, and now I actually have to be completely passive. What does being passive entail? Well, as I said before, blocking people does absolutely nothing except for punish you and make it to where you can’t find any lobbies, so that’s out of the question. You could message people as I usually do and either let them know you didn’t like how they took you out, or ask them to please watch their blind spots, but most of the time you just get a reply full of profanity blaming you for their mistake. You could stand your ground, but then you’re just gonna get banned forever, so what’s the good in that? You could report people via the wonky process of saving over your good replays and then emailing Turn 10, but even if they do get banned, they just hop on one of several accounts they have to bypass it.

So I’ve offered a lot of complaints and problems, but no real solutions. Truth is, I don’t have many. Turn 10 has made an effort to stop bad behavior in lobbies by adding tire walls to trouble sections of tracks where slow people cut corners, cutting back on the amount of accidents they cause, and they’ve implemented the race marshal program, but truth be told, I’ve only seen 2 race marshals, and they’ve both been Raceboy77. Did they not appoint any more than that? Plus, why stick a big Turn 10 badge next to their name? It’s like in real life when everybody is speeding on the highway and they see a cop. They slow down. Nobody’s going to act up while authority is in plain sight. Race marshals shouldn’t have a big arrow pointing at them like “HI DON’T DO ANYTHING BAD AROUND ME OR I’LL BAN YOU.”

Maybe I’ll just abandon hopper lobbies. Maybe I’ll stick to rivals and join leagues and such so I can actually race with clean drivers who understand racing lines, clean passing, yielding, etc. I know a lot of people here aren’t the ones to blame, as it seems like the people who get the short end of the stick are the ones who complain, after all, what do the bad drivers have to complain about? They race dirty, wreck people, and report people for retaliating. If they get banned, they just make new accounts. Everything is handed to them on a silver platter, and we’re made to suffer. What can we do as a community? Well, we could just not buy Forza 7, but then what do we have? There’s not a lot out there for Xbox gamers to even play. You can always switch to Gran Turismo but that involves buying an entirely separate console, and honestly, GT just doesn’t even hold a candle to Forza, then you get to deal with the wreckers on there, which I’ve heard is just as big of a problem on there, if not worse, than it is on here.

Either way, I’m taking a break, albeit not by my own choice, and now I just have to do some thinking. Do I let bad drivers ruin my races and finish like garbage in hoppers? Do I give up on hoppers and try to find more dedicated racing for people who appreciate good racing etiquette? Do I risk fighting back as I’ve done before, only to have race teams mass report me or have people with an entitlement mentality frame me and get me banned permanently? Do I block everybody on Forza and never even get to find a lobby to begin with? We’ll see in a month.

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It seems to me that the biggest problem with the game is there are no in game penalties to stop this type of behavior that you’ve described. There would be no need for tire walls if you had time added for each second you are off the track. So what if you cross the finish line first, after you have +30s added for cutting you get bumped down to 15 or 16 out of 24.

Collisions happen, but intentional ramming is very obvious – so much so that I argue it could be calculated. Most rammers never hit the brakes when approaching a corner if their intent it to ram. It seems a calculation could be done to determine a level of penalty. Near a corner, throttle 100%, brakes 0% would have a different penalty than near a corner, throttle 20%, brakes 0% or even near a corner, throttle 0%, brakes 65%. The first could be temporary disabling of the car for 5 seconds. The second could be a +200ms penalty. The last could be discarded as it was a result of perhaps a longer stopping distance of the car in the rear.

Being able to publicly vote to kick problem drivers that consistently cause issues in a lobby would reduce the number of trolling drivers. Even something like a reputation system that is public could help. For example, after a race with a player that was competitive and fair to both players, give them a thumbs up. A player that was unusually reckless or rammed you and cost you multiple positions could get a thumbs down. Then, when you join a lobby you could easily see the type of drivers in that lobby by their reputation alone and it would help you decide if you should even attempt to compete with these drivers.

Of course, providing publicly created lobbies could reduce a large number of problems found in the public hoppers. The are easily self-marshaled by the host of the lobby. This way, anyone could set up a lobby with rules they would like enforced – and as a player you would quickly find which lobbies are the best based on the name of the host for the lobby.

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Vote to kick players is already in FM6.

The problem is that the vote to kick is hidden. Nobody in the lobby knows who is receiving votes and I’d argue some players don’t even know this feature exists.

A visible vote to kick has been proven to work to Xbox 360 versions.

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You know somebody is passionate when they write half a thesis in a single post, the majority of which I agree with.

Unfortunately, I’ve lost count of how many threads exist on the topic of negative Multiplayer experiences, and anything we bring up now has been discussed dozens of times.

All we can really do now is wait until Sunday, see what gets announced and hope that Turn 10’s vision for this franchise begins to line up with what we want from Public Multiplayer racing.

This has been the strongest year I can remember for racing game launches, and if Forza doesn’t deliver on this front I can see a portion of the community moving on. Personally, I’m eyeing up Gran Turismo Sport as its Multiplayer philosophy lines up with what I have been wanting from Forza for years.