READ FIRST
This post was something I have wanted to discuss for a while, but I want to make some ground rules clear. This post will NOT include how to download specific livery image importers/naming any sort of illegal tools, nor will there be any attacking/down playing of any individual here. Please keep all responses civil amongst each other while I know this is quite the controversial topic it does not mean we can attack each other. This is purely a post for curiosity sake. This is NOT something that has been announced that is coming/anything like that… wanting to make that clear too so I do not scare/excite anyone.
Intro
I have been researching into older titles who also seemed to use the livery editor we have currently. Which involves using shapes to create images/shapes to apply towards our car. This is something many have chosen to love and cherish. Many have gotten extremely talented using the livery editor too, but it does make me wonder. Many games retired this system quite a while ago. While I am not one who would want to see it go (nothing has stated that it would); I wonder if this is holding up what is capable amongst the paint booth/creativity of those amongst the franchise. While I feel that if it was introduced some day it would be killing off an art form/style, but I also wonder if it would increase the usage amongst the livery booth. Since they would have easier access to things they want to create in less time. If this would have a overall positive outlook as this would allow users to create things of their dreams without alot of experience, or if it would have an overall negative outlook as it would kill off the insane talent by many who work in the paint booth.
Personally, for me I do not want to see the ability built into a Forza Title of importing an image as a vinyl/livery. (Again not saying this is something that is happening, but I am curious about the analytics behind this) Not only would it erase a huge piece of history/talent; it would make moderation for these sorts of things a living nightmare.
Poll
Import an Image Versus Current System
Livery Editor with Import an Image to Vinyl/Livery
Livery Editor with using Shapes to create a Vinyl/Livery [Current System]
Thank you for bringing this up , absolutely no to import any work using a tool , well i understand how casual players think it will bring to them , but what they doesn’t understand that liveries n vynils takes hours sometimes days to make a single design, livery creators spend soo much time and effort to make a single design while importing takes few minutes, is absolutely unfair plus it can’t be monitored for illegal content imo , we just need an improvement for the current livery editor inside the game with no uploads, thank you again for this topic , i hope players understand the pain we go throw making something for a very long time as a livery creators .
This could be dumb, but maybe it wouldnt kill off talent completely, like if you want something completely of your own you could like draw something digitally on something like Microsoft paint and import it
So just curious where you feel overlay tools like Glass2K fall into this…
I’ve always used nothing but the controller & console editor for my designs (which is probably clearly evident ), but I know there are a lot of “alternate” tools used.
You already asked me before about this in private , and i answered you , i have used a different method @Oliver0023 recorded that in another post on the fourms using math for xbox players since we have a controller, xbox , and brain to build our vynils in the livery editor, also we had a discussion with other painters and oliver about that as well .
Marvan ai’s method is shared in here with some other painting guides I have shared. If you would like to see it in action
Its interesting to think about because Ik some painters from the fm1-fm2 era who say using anything like glass2k isnt allowed. Then some that support it and its just one of those things. Seeing different strategies change is quite interesting to me.
You may want to re-read my comment rather than taking it personally & responding in such a condescending manner. I clearly wasn’t asking what method you personally use, as I know we have discussed this via PM, but rather where you thought that fell into the current discussion, but inconsequential now.
No , what i meant you can read the post that made about that method, and since xbox players doesn’t have an acsess to that so there is another method am using in the same post as an xbox player , my personal believe is it has an advantage over xbox players but i tried to do my own method since we don’t have acsess to that , it wasn’t personal you are the first one i heard this from , and then i knew that it was out there for a very long time , so we had a discussion about with oliver and other painters , and thanks to him he made everything clear in the same post for painters guidance.
An image import lowers the barrier to entry for new players to create their own livery and saves time for us seasoned designers. Out of the hundreds of hours creating liveries, most of my time goes to creating aftermarket supplier logos that are then used as stamps. If I could import a GReddy logo, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
The art is not necessarily in a single vinyl group, it is in the wholistic design of the car. Color palette, proportion, composition, style, quality, etc. I don’t think this aspect would be demised, but would rather raise the skill ceiling. I guarantee players will find new and inventive ways to create even crazier designs.
In my option, there are three options for progress:
1.) Significantly more manufacture logos need to be added to the game. Allow these logos to be streched, skewed, and recolored as desired. The issue is licensing.
2.) Give players the ability to unlock their liveries and vinyl groups for others to use (this is a whole other debate but worth mentioning).
3.) A hybrid system that incorporates the current livery editor and an image importer. Though the current editor is rather archaic, it works well. Add the benefit of the importer and it become a robust system.
As for moderation, how does Gran Turismo handle it?
Something not mentioned yet is the UV mapping. This would in theory need to be updated. If I want to put a imported logo over the entire car, the segmented and poor UV mapping would distort the image.
My current issues with the livery editor is not with the inherent way that it functions, but with the limitations that, in theory (from my perspective at least), could be updated for future iterations of the game.
Metallic paints, vinyls on windows, special materials for vinyls, more consistent paint zones, these are the kind of things I want.
Fundamentally changing the livery editor to be about importing images seems like a step back in my eyes. Adding onto the current system could be an upgrade but I too have concerns about moderation and the resources that would require.
Honestly, when I really think about it, making the “perfect” livery editor seems like an impossible task. Fact of the matter is that even an impatient no-talent like me can go in and make some pretty sharp liveries without feeling too limited or constrained.
My vote is for iterative improvements over fundamental changes.
I’d say that it’s a net positive for the entire community that liveries get more accessible instead of them being locked behind a huge timesink wall of pausing for something relatively simple, for every member that complains about their efforts having gone to waste, 1000 more jump in due to the hurdles being much lower than before, which offsets the complaints imo.
Plus, remaking the editor “from the ground up” would allow them to go for SVGs over standard image files instead, which would allow for sharper liveries at a lower rendering cost to the entire game.
Also, on the moderation side, it probably wouldn’t have the effect that you think it’d have, most of the symbols that are commonly made which violate ToS are super simple already (3-11 shapes), i don’t think the bar lowering on that would have that big of an impact
No it doesn’t negate any effort, there is no shortcut to creativity, a great design will still take time.
The time that is being removed is “busywork”, where you need to pause off something from something, most big liveries take long because of the time that’s wasted on having to line up squares, circles and “toenails” (or whatever you call the small things), it’s like comparing a paper form that has to be filled out on location to an electronic one that you can fill out in five minutes in the comfort of your own four walls, both achieve the same goal, but one is much more comfortable to use over the other.
From the perspective of someone using just the game available design editor & vinyl application processes, I would like to see a dedicated “design studio” style addition that would allow for proper lighting, viewing & applications on the cars without having to contend with the space viewing limitations of the festival locations, with literal ceiling structures impeding your view depending on the angle.
As far as the point of image importing, I agree with the sentiment that it could detract from those who commit the time & effort to create the designs, but it could also be argued that the rampant abuse of alt account loading for boosting designs into the RP for the most popular weekly cars is just another variation of that.
I’ve personally spent hours on creating designs by simply comparing an image on my phone & “free handing” it on the editor to try to create something that can be shared with the only real “reward” being the personal accomplishment & ultimately if even a handful of players end up enjoying it.
My designs are nowhere near the level of talent some of the artists in the game are able to achieve, but I still enjoy investing the time to create, which I guess at the end of it, is really all it’s about.
Well i agree with you , I’ve seen some lighting options in forza motorsport livery editor gives you the ability to look at your design with different lighting and i like it a lot .
Also agree with the livery creation it’s satisfying when you accomplish something you made your own , the time you spend is more than a livery it’s a passion to create something by your own doesn’t matter who will like it or not it’s just for fun and improving each time n learning new skills n new shapes to use , the livery editor for many is way more than sharing a livery it’s whole forza for soo many painters .
I respect your opinion, but the time spend making it is the reward we getting , if it will be just uploading a design to a car then we wouldn’t use the livery creator, as a whole design can be worked elsewhere and uploaded to the game , also i agree it’s complicated and that’s what this post about , players already spend time n joy can’t simply just accept that , while other players wish to have something like that , but if you think about it from a painter prospective you will understand why we disagree .
I don’t see that happening at this moment, too many wonky UV-Maps in the game for this to actually happen.
The time spent shouldn’t be your reward, the object you made should be, being able to say “i made this” should be the reward, not “I wasted 6 hours on making logos, then i was finally able to make the livery i wanted”.
From a painters perspective, being able to cut down on prep is a good thing, as it allows time to be allocated more towards the actual creative part of liverymaking, rather than the busywork that happens before that.
Definitely results what’s matter after all , but when you make it ur self not as when you get a result in 5 min while uploading, i will rather pick not gd result by me for hours than a 5 min upload , it’s personal choice .
Also if you mean aftermarket logos and sponsors, we would love to see more of those all around to save us time on that part , but not real paints since it’s a personal idea for each one , but the issue with that is these brands must have an agreement with forza to use there logos in the game as i understand so it’s not up to us only , ready sponsors always good but what i was talking about is paints and designs not sponsors .